Two simple rules to improve results.

[mech5496]

That would make a GREAT rule

[Alumni]

1.) Endurance starts with the fastest cars and works backwards. As they finish, design finalists are re-evaluated. If for some reason a finalist wasn't able to run auto-cross, use an educated guess based on skid-pad and accel times to slot them in so they're finished with endurance by lunch. If they didn't finish accel, skidpad, or the finalist honestly qualified in the afternoon, find new design judges.

2.) Fix the design event. I've said it before and here it is again. It should go something like this: "Here's a picture and load analysis of a perfect hub. Here's the compromises we had to make and why. Here's what is actually on the car." Design judge will evaluate student on knowledge of "perfect" hub and whether or not compromises are reasonable, INCLUDING cost and manufacturing ability of the school. I really like the aforementioned "Engineering Event" since oversized rod-ends in bending are never good design, but there are certainly cases where they can be a perfectly acceptable solution (ever try to build a budget car that needs to be easily serviced in a third-world country? We aren't all Germany here folks...)

3.) All schools are required to hold their FSAE teams in the same regards as their football teams in terms of marketing, performance, funding, and continual improvement.

[JulianH]

1) I don't like a "reverse grid" in Endurance. Spectatures will just leave, nobody watches the middle pack anymore it's really sad.
We had that in Spain once when they ran C class from slow to fast and then E class from Fast to slow. After the Top 5 E-Cars finished Endurance, everybody left. That is really uncool for the slower teams and reduces that "magic moments" of a Final 5.
I know that this is the "show part" of FSAE but I, especially as an alumn, like this part

I actually don't think that "finishing Endurance" is necessary for a Design Event.
All failures that we had in Endurance are not really related to car design but were mostly human error or a buy-part getting killed:
FS Italy 2009: That was not really E85...
FSG 2010 somebody forgot to lock the battery packs correctly
FSUK 2012: We had a faulty bearing in the gearbox
FSG 2016: Set wrong tire pressure

So yes, we had like 4 DNFs out of 20-ish Endurances. But was our "engineering capability" better in the 16 other events? I doubt that... (of course you can argue that "better engineers" would have designed parts better so that it is not possible for stupid humans to make mistakes, but the "same design" was used in the other events as well but it was just more properly handled)

2) Fix the Design Event. Sure. I like it. I always tried to judge the knowledge of the students about the parts that they designed. I scored a team very high that had a bad Aero design but they knew why it was bad and had just limited resources and could show that their money was spent better on other stuff of the car. That is good stuff "already" in the Design Event.
I think Alumni of FSAE make for better judges that the typical Automotive Industry judges because they are of course more impressed by the fancy laser sintered upright...

3) We are not all USA here folks... Universities in Europe don't have "sports teams" and they don't give a cr.. about any of their student projects.. they like the free publicity of a World record or a Title at FSAE but otherwise, no support at all.
FSUK

[Alumni]

I agree that a reverse grid kills some (okay, a lot,) of the fun in watching endurance, but seems like a better compromise to me than design finals before the race. Really I'd like to see an extra day added back in to the competition if for no reason other than allowing teams proper time to set-up their car for each event rather than having to use the same set-up for accel and skid-pad. A parc-ferme system could be used to force teams into only making minor and quick suspension adjustments rather than trying to rebuild things they should have sorted weeks prior. In addition you wouldn't have to juggle tech and static events.

Also, some sort of allotment for simple minor repairs during endurance would go far, but is virtually impossible to define. It's done in Baja, so not impossible. Maybe something like you get one replacement tire, a handful of zip-ties, and can reconnect electrical connectors/toggle main power so long as the car is able to exit the track and drive to the repair area under its own power. 2 minute penalty regardless of how quickly you preform the fix. One stop only.

[JT A.]

I agree that a reverse grid kills some (okay, a lot,) of the fun in watching endurance, but seems like a better compromise to me than design finals before the race. Really I'd like to see an extra day added back in to the competition if for no reason other than allowing teams proper time to set-up their car for each event rather than having to use the same set-up for accel and skid-pad. A parc-ferme system could be used to force teams into only making minor and quick suspension adjustments rather than trying to rebuild things they should have sorted weeks prior. In addition you wouldn't have to juggle tech and static events.

Also, some sort of allotment for simple minor repairs during endurance would go far, but is virtually impossible to define. It's done in Baja, so not impossible. Maybe something like you get one replacement tire, a handful of zip-ties, and can reconnect electrical connectors/toggle main power so long as the car is able to exit the track and drive to the repair area under its own power. 2 minute penalty regardless of how quickly you preform the fix. One stop only.

I agree with most of your ideas, except for allowing extra time for setup changes between skidpad & accel. There is enough time already, if you have the adjustments planned out and have practiced them once or twice. My last year as a student I changed damper settings, tire pressure, camber, wing flap positions, ride heights, front & rear toe between skidpad and accel. Other years we were more disorganized and unprepared, and we could only manage to change tire pressures and wing flaps. But in my opinion, that's the way it should be. Teams that come prepared, and designed a car that is quick to service / adjust, get to take advantage of it. Teams that are unprepared and designed bad adjustment systems have to run the same compromised setups for both events.

If anything the rules should do more to reward quick adjustments & penalize teams that can't. For example, change skidpad so that teams only run it in 1 direction. Each team is told which direction when they enter the dynamic area, and they have 5 minutes to change their car setup before they have to push the car in line and stop working on it. It rewards teams that 1) Understand asymmetric vehicle setup and can think outside the typical FSAE box to optimize their car for a certain direction 2)Designed a car with quick & easy adjustments, and 3)Were organized & prepared enough to practice the setup changes before the event.

[Alumni]

I agree with most of your ideas, except for allowing extra time for setup changes between skidpad & accel. There is enough time already, if you have the adjustments planned out and have practiced them once or twice. My last year as a student I changed damper settings, tire pressure, camber, wing flap positions, ride heights, front & rear toe between skidpad and accel. Other years we were more disorganized and unprepared, and we could only manage to change tire pressures and wing flaps. But in my opinion, that's the way it should be. Teams that come prepared, and designed a car that is quick to service / adjust, get to take advantage of it. Teams that are unprepared and designed bad adjustment systems have to run the same compromised setups for both events.

If anything the rules should do more to reward quick adjustments & penalize teams that can't. For example, change skidpad so that teams only run it in 1 direction. Each team is told which direction when they enter the dynamic area, and they have 5 minutes to change their car setup before they have to push the car in line and stop working on it. It rewards teams that 1) Understand asymmetric vehicle setup and can think outside the typical FSAE box to optimize their car for a certain direction 2)Designed a car with quick & easy adjustments, and 3)Were organized & prepared enough to practice the setup changes before the event.

I don't disagree, my thinking is more along the lines of nudging teams in the direction of doing so. I could have worded it better.

Throwing a wrench in the works for some events as you mention could be interesting as well. I'm not sure what events you could add (split-mu braking anyone?) but it'd be cool to see some more options that competitions could choose from like baja. Announce which events you'll run a month before competition.

[Charles Kaneb]

A little preview of what you can do with eight horsepower.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFku5vz9EXY

It won't go to Lincoln this year for logistical reasons.

[MCoach]

Charles,

On a similar note, the simplicity, speed, and insanity of Outlaw Karts have captured my heart recently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8MBIK1V06cts

[Z]

Charles,

I especially like the vibrant shade of brown you have chosen for the paint job!

Your video certainly shows that quick laps on twisty tracks are more about corner speed than horsepower.

Can you give us some overall specs of the kart, perhaps to help students doing overall concept simulations?

For example (just in round numbers):
1. Overall Mass (with or w/o driver), and Rear%.
2. Track-width, Wheelbase, and CG-Height.
3. Engine Capacity, Power (8 hp, but at crank, or wheel?), and Peak-Revs.
4. Overall Gear-Ratio (crank/wheel), and Rear-Tyre-OD.
5. I assume Aero-DownForce (CL.A) is close to zero, but any idea of CD.A?

Students can then plug these numbers into their simulator (or download something like OptimumLap), and then try to justify the need for a ~100 hp turbocharged-tyre-shredder to power their car!

Students can assume same tyre-Mus on both types of car. Or, more realistically, a higher Mu on the LIGHTER, smaller-engined car.

Z

[Z]

Charles,

On a similar note, the simplicity, speed, and insanity of Outlaw Karts have captured my heart recently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8MBIK1V06cts

MCoach,

Some specs on these would also be good.

Better yet, bring one to Lincoln!

Z