1st revision of 2015 rules released

[Bemo]

Bemo,

Were all single cylinder cars that you were near too loud? Or was it only a few of them? What I noticed in 2013 (I was also in the dynamic areas when cars were warming up/running), is that only a few cars were actually loud. The rules clearly state that if an official believes a team to be in violation of the noise rules, they can be re-tested. Why not enforce the rules that are currently in existence? Why continue to add more rules? If a team is loud (because they are cheating, and have pulled the plug from their exhaust), then go re-test them. It's a simple procedure that doesn't seem to be followed. Instead, all teams will be punished for the actions of a few.

-Matt

Believe it or not, we have done that multiple times at FSG and never caught a team really cheating. You can say whatever you want. The noise test was just not suitable as it was for keeping the noise of the singles down on track - end of story.

As Kev suggested, why not give marshals some earplugs/phones? I'm sure that anyone standing near a PA speaker whilst someone is calling the race would be exposed to more SPL than is provided by the singles. What about drivers? Do all drivers now need earplugs as part of scrutineering, or just those driving singles?

To me the main problem here is that a team now cannot use an off-the-shelf muffler (for which there can be perfectly reasonable justification), so they must build one themselves. Cue the melting/falling off mufflers, and inherent (real) dangers that implies.

You can run an off-the-shelf muffler. Just use a 4cyl. engine. You think your will be less competitive then? Oh, so you have to do the extra work. I don't see why it is the task of the RC to make it easy to run a single.

[Mbirt]

Maybe the eye and nose-burning HC emissions will become the next objectionable racecar characteristic to strip away through the requirement of an oxidation catalyst?

Anyone that has heard a stock dirtbike or ATV with the "pea-shooter" exhaust restriction in place will know how quiet the TRX450R Dr. Paasch tested is. This vehicle is given a "green" sticker in California because it meets the state's noise laws for operation on public land. It is quiet enough for operation on land owned by the People's Republic(!), but not at an FSAE event.

I do not think this rule will last more than one season in its current state.

[apalrd]

I have just measured my D Stock 2005 Cooper S, which is fitted with a SuperTrapp, it is comes out at 99 dBC and 84 dBA at 1100 rpm (warming up), and 94 dBC and 78 dBA at 8-900 rpm (warmed up). It is plenty noisy on a solo course.

While I was noise testing the Abarth, I hooked up some instrumentation from work to look at ECU parameters including air charge and spark advance.

Just idling, cold (light off idle), the spark was retarded past TDC, and the noise was extremely loud (some garage mechanics mistook it for a Hellcat or other loud V8 car when it started cold), but as it warmed up and ran less spark reserve, it quieted down significantly (and the noise results showed nearly 8db quieter when it exited light-off). A lot of this is the turbo interactions with retarded spark, but it passes the relevant noise standards where it is sold (in Michigan that would be 95 dBA at 20" in a 'stationary run-up test'). This car fails the FSAE standard noise test at light off idle, but is under 100dBC at the noise test RPM. Once it gets up to the high load regions, and the wastegate opens, noise goes way up, but that's not part of the noise test. Maybe turbocharged vehicles are seen as louder because of the wastegate interactions?

Many FSAE (and racing vehicles in general) optimize their cam profiles for high horsepower performance, including high RPM pulse tuning/gas dynamics. At low speed, and idle, all of these nicely tuned gas dynamics are not happy, and it can be hard to optimize the idle performance with a fixed cam engine, especially singles with their even unhappier plenum dynamics. The easy answer is to retard spark a lot for idle, which results in a nice stable no-misfire idle, but it's not quiet. So we can try to pull fuel or air and misfire, or sit happy and loud.

Mr. Royce, what is the noise standard for the Moto GP bikes you test?

Our towing truck is now going to be louder than our race car. Nobody complains about our towing truck being too loud.

[Michael Royce]

Andrew,
The noise test for Moto GP bikes, is a bit of a farce. In my opinion, it is only to say they have a requirement! So I decline to give you the numbers or the test speeds!! If you are really that interested, go on-line and dig them out.

BTW, ear protection is necessary to survive in pit lane at Moto GP events.

MJR

[MCoach]

Because I just so happened to be looking at the MotoGP rules...

2.4.5.4 Noise Tests
1) Noise tests must be conducted in an open area with a space of at
least 10 metres between the motorcycle being tested and walls or other
obstacles. There should be a minimum amount of ambient noise in the
area.
2) The measuring equipment must be calibrated prior to the test and
recalibrated at regular intervals.
3) The measuring equipment should be placed 50 cm from the end of
the exhaust pipe and at 45 degree angle to the pipe either to the side
or above.
4) The maximum noise levels at all times are:
MotoGP: 130 dB/A
For convenience, the test may be conducted at a fixed RPM.
1 cylinder 2 cylinders 3 cylinders 4 cylinders
MotoGP 5,500 rpm 5’500 rpm 5’500 rpm 5’500 rpm

[Charles Kaneb]

I have never owned a road car or motorcycle that would pass the 2015 FSAE sound rules (The rule in Massachusetts used to be 98dBA at 50' and I'd always be close). I doubt a stock 2.5 liter Subaru Legacy would pass either at idle or at speed and those are used as family cars all over the world.

Will Oakland University or Kettering University lend me a sound meter this weekend? I'd like to know how loud my 100 ICA kart is.

[MCoach]

Charles, you can pick a sound meter up for several bucks at Radioshack.

[Jay Lawrence]

Bemo, you kinda ignored the majority of my post but you've brought up an interesting issue: it is not the task of the RC to make it easy to run a single. Correct. It is also not the task of the rules committee to eliminate industry accepted products/methods (thereby defeating the purpose of educating engineers for the 'real world'). This is very similar to the weird ETC rules.

[Bemo]

As people ignore most of what I write and just quote a single sentence, why shouldn't I.

At what point eliminated the RC an "industry accepted product/method"? There was none which could have been eliminated. FSAE vehicles are used differently from road cars and the whole test procedure is completely different. And a hint to all of you who are taking all this efford to make senseless comparisons with other vehicles. Noise of cold engines is not interesting. You do the noise test with a warmed up engine.

Road cars don't have 20mm restrictors, so they wouldn't be legal in FSAE although used as family vehicles all over the world!
Road cars don't have 5 or 6 point harness systems, so the wouldn't be legal in FSAE although used as family vehicles all over the world!
Road cars don't have a master switch on the side of the chassis, so the wouldn't be legal in FSAE although used as family vehicles all over the world!
Road aren't open wheeled, so the wouldn't be legal in FSAE although used as family vehicles all over the world!
Some road cars even use Diesel fuel, so the wouldn't be legal in FSAE although used as family vehicles all over the world!

Oh, did I mention that comparing FSAE rules to road cars doesn't make any sense?

There are a lot of stupid rules you can complain about, but this particular one is absolutely fine. There is a well defined test procedure and a defined value to fulfill. Comparison to race cars are also senseless (FSAE is not racing!)

And btw, when working in industry you will have to fulfill a lot of requirements you don't like and think they don't make sense. You still have to accept them. So this might be a very valuable exercise for you.

[Jonny Rochester]

Comparison to race cars are also senseless (FSAE is not racing!)

Comparisons between race cars and a teams car for FSAE competition is valid and intelligent, it is not senseless. The main differences between a FSAE vehicle and other formula cars is mostly in size and scale. Just because the FSAE competition itself is not racing wheel-to-wheel, there is no difference between a time-trial car and a racing car.
In fact any car can be used for racing. The difference between a car and a race car is the number on the side. I can race my Corolla if I want, it just needs a number on the side (and safety equipment for whatever category I race). Whether I enter a time-trial or a race, it's still exactly the same car. FSAE does in fact have a number on the side, so race car it is!