Formula Student India

[Silverbolt]

@Devak

I'm sure it will still be way better than SUPRA which is organized by SAE India. If all goes well, FSI will be the premier event for Indian engineering colleges who want to actually learn some real engineering.

[Soumya]

Respected Sir,

@Claude, will there be any difference in the level or importance of event as it is not being held under SAE INDIA.
will it be a part of FSAE International Calender?

YES. There will be the following difference:

1. There will be a rules quiz based confirmation of entries ( as it happens in FSG- a globally recognised event)
2. There will be NO WHEEL TO WHEEL racing. ( as it happens in ANY FSAE/FS event anywhere in the world)
3. International Rules , standard , scoring method and safety protocols will be followed. ( as it happens in ANY FSAE/FS event anywhere in the world)
4. There shall be design presentation & business plan presentation finals. ( as it happens in ANY FSAE/FS event anywhere in the world)
5. Individual event scores shall be published immediately after end of each day. ( as it happens in ANY FSAE/FS event anywhere in the world)
6. Live timing will be there to check the timing of each car as it crosses the line. ( as it happens in ANY FSAE/FS event anywhere in the world)
7. All scoring and ranking shall be open to all and can be subject to review if any protest is received. No individual/ sponsor can/shall dictate the outcome of any event or decide pass/fail of a team through any stage of tech scrutiny. ( as it happens in ANY FSAE/FS event anywhere in the world)

Also, the event shall be held under complete compliance to 2014 FSAE International rules. Hence, ANY car from ANY university which has participated in any FSAE/FS competition anywhere in the world or has built a car which is in compliance with the 2014 FSAE International rules, will be deemed eligible to participate.

The event has been scheduled in such a way that any team from anywhere in the world can compete in this event without clashing with anyother FSAE/FS event.

However, this event is not part of the FSAE official series. Then, there is no student engineering design competition in India which is classified as part of the official SAE International Collegiate Design Series.

[Claude Rouelle]

Devak,

I have attended all FS/ FSAE competition except one (Hungary) at least once, most of the times 10 to 15 times.

All of them, except previous Indian organizations, reach very well their #1 goal which is to provide an engineering design competition based on a race car concept, design, manufacturing, testing and racing. Whether the letter S, A and E are attached to the competition name is irrelevant to me.

What make a great competition are the organization skills of the people who create the event as well as the passion and the commitment of the pursuit of excellence of the students, and last but not least, the spirit of camaraderie between the teams.

Judging from what I know from FSI 2015 and the people who promote it, I bet this will be the most professionally organized and the most ethically conducted Formula Student ever organized in India. I wish you can be part of it; it will change your life (and I am measure my words), open new horizons for your future, make you belive in yourself even more and give you skills for your career.

Please drop the “Respected Sir”, it actually annoys me. My name is Claude.

The best respect you can give me is by respecting yourself first and then by designing, understand, manufacture, test and race the best possible car you can do.

[happypranav]

Hello everyone,

I would like all judges and experienced people to share their views on one of the most important topics specifically for Indian Teams.
Is it really required by an Indian team running on tight budget to go for importing parts for their FSAE car?
This question merely divides a good team into two groups affecting their entire spirit. I asked guidance from Judges and experienced
people because Indian Teams highly respect all of them, their guidance may improve management in Indian Teams.
Example:
Is it require for Indian teams to go for FOX suspensions?
Is it require to purchase and invest almost 400 USD in ABC point?
Is it required to go for Willwood calipers?

Will Doing all these really improve chances of performing better for Indian Teams?

[Jonny Rochester]

For suspension, I would suggest trying DNM shocks (search that on ebay or try http://www.dnmshock.com/). Our team has just purchases new FOX stuff, but I can't be sure how appropriate it is, and I would have chosen DNM for cost. But for this engineering design competition, you are judged on the reasons for your purchase. FOX is not even the best for a car. You can find something much cheaper. Just make sure you provide a reason for your chosen spring rates.

We have Wilwood calipers, but only because they are left over from the old car. You are just as well off using used motorbike brakes.

[Pat Clarke]

Pranav,

FSI is an educational design competition with a motorsport theme, it is not primarily a motorsport event. So there is much more to getting the best from FSI than building a car and racing it. FSI intends to prepare you for the big 'real world' when you leave University and look for a job in industry. FS and FSAE has been very successful doing this all over the world.

So, spending lots of money buying fancy racing car bits will not impress the judges unless you can convince them you did all the math, made all the comparisons and can justify your choice of these components. There are many different solutions, from buying a product in right up to making your own parts. Many international teams have made their own brake calipers and dampers, a few have even made their own engine. And these teams too had to convince the Judges that such a decision was the best for the team.

The first thing you must understand is the formula for FSI is very free. In essence, if it is not specifically called out in the rules, then that part is free...you can use whatever you like!

Suspension wise, you can use any spring/damper units. Or any other type of suspension if you choose.

The usual selection is for mountain bike shocks, like the Fox units you mention. Fox was once popular, but the newer models are not so suitable for reasons I will mention later.
Currently, the suspension unit of choice is the Ohlins/Cane Creek unit. These are very high quality (expensive) but can be ordered specifically for a FSAE application.
There are two issues with bike shocks, especially cheap ones. Firstly, almost no two are the same. Even with adjustable damping models, it is very difficult to get matched pairs of dampers. Secondly, they usually have a hydraulic lock system that stops the rider wasting pedal energy in compressing the spring ("Pro Pedal" etc). This makes them unsuitable for car use.

Be careful about using shocks with Air Springs as they tend to have a very 'rising' spring rate and the spring rate changes as they get hot (which they do, quite quickly).

There are companies in India that make dampers for the millions of small motorbikes made there. Find who these companies are and approach them with your requirements. Make sure they know what FSI is all about and it is likely you will get some support. DO NOT EMAIL THEM AND HOPE! You need to knock on doors, find the right person and look them in the eye and ask for help. This is also part of the educational benefits of FSI.

Your second point escapes me. What is 'ABC Point' ?

Thirdly, the story with calipers (and rotors and master cylinders etc) is the same as suspension units. Someone is making these units for the motorcycle industry. Find them, knock on the door etc etc. Bill Wood in California makes great brakes at sensible prices, but they are in no way mandatory for FSI.

On the subject of brakes, will you use three or four brakes on the car? If you chose to use three, you need to think about what differential (if any) you use on the car.

Finally, go to Amazon and buy the book 'Learn & Compete'. This is a primer for FS and FSAE teams, written by many senior Judges and Tech Advisors and covers virtually every aspect of building a FSI car and competing at FSI.

Pat Clarke

[happypranav]

Pranav,



Your second point escapes me. What is 'ABC Point' ?


Pat Clarke

It is Brake pedal assembly.

[Pat Clarke]

So, Pranav

Based on what I wrote earlier, what do you think?
The rules require a separate front and rear brake system (don't do a road car type diagonal type split), so you will need some way to balanve the brake effort between the front and rear wheels.
Go on, be an engineer and design a system to do that. I know you want to and it will cost way less than $400!

Pat

[happypranav]

That's my point if you can design ( Brake pedal box) or use a local industry to manufacture shocks as per your damping and spring requirement.
You can use motorcycle brake calipers in effective way available at very low cost. Why you decide to go for imports waste your energy, most valuable time,
and learn nothing than managing customs.
(I think it is basic common sense to be considered by Indian students)

[Soumya]

Sorry to interrupt Pat.

Pranav, this thread was created to discuss 'Formula Student India'.

There is a separate thread to discuss these matters. You could post under the thread " Teams from India".
http://www.fsae.com/forums/showthrea...ht=teams+india

Posting irrelevant replies in a thread makes it difficult to navigate for new users on a forum and also diverts the discussion.