Formula SAE at MIS 2008 Competition: - Updates, Pictures, Stories, and More.

[Mikko Ahola]

Comp is getting close.

Helsinki has been testing at Oakland University. Also RMIT is here.

Some pics at www.formula.stadia.fi (http://www.formula.stadia.fi)

[exFSAE]

Silverdome was cooler. Hotels, and that Arby's, right across the way.. teams cutting and welding (or in our case burning in brake pads and doing brake tests) well into the night.. kegs and beeramids in hotel rooms.. shirtless arm wrestling (ok.. kinda homo) .. good times.

That said, I'll be around MIS this week.

[fade]

damn you guys must have showed up prepared! I remember late nights at kinkos and driving around the better part of michigan looking for an ACE hardware http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[carboneater]

Two videos of your testing phase at Saginaw Valley State University.

http://racing.tugraz.at/home/usa-2008/media/episode-2/
http://racing.tugraz.at/home/usa-2008/media/episode-3/

Good luck to all participants at MIS!!

[ben]

http://racing.tugraz.at/en/home/usa-2008/media/episode-4/

Bloody marvellous! Have a great comp.

BTW as a number of riders/drivers have pointed out to me in the last two years - you're meant to take the money not actually drink the stuff... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Ben

[RiNaZ]

mannn ... that car is a piece of art. When i saw ETS carbon car back in 02, i thought no one can top it in terms of aesthetic, but those austrians really took it to the next level. I think their ability to joke around with each other kinda show what type of car you can produced when you have teamwork.

Anybody know what they're saying when they were in walmart? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[RIT Alumni]

GO TIGERS!

Best of Luck to RIT. The car looks great, and is fast as always.

[DubTizzle]

Go CATS!

Looking forward to all the pics! Good Luck CINCINNATI!

[Scorpio]

MIS Site Layout:

http://michiganturnmarshals.org/FSAE/2008_MISsite.pdf

[ttk3]

This venue seems to be 100 times more accessible than FPG was. Can't wait to see some pics. Damn co-ops kept me away this year.

[Mikko Ahola]

Tech inspection done!

Bit of a change in scrutineering to what we are used to... But still got through with one try.

The weather was horrible. Rain and thunderstorms. Hope tomorrow will be better. We´ll try to share some pics maybe tomorrow.

[Superfast Matt McCoy]

I wanna see some pushbar pics.

[Dan G]

Flying out tomorrow to take some pickatures.

If anyone has blown their GT12/15V, contact me before 3pm PST.

[BStoney]

GO CATS!! Continue the winning tradition!!

[nickerss]

Pleaseeeee post pics of everything. I'm studying abroad in Australia this semester so I can't be there with my team. Good luck to everyone...hope the weather improves.

[Kirk Feldkamp]

Originally posted by RiNaZ:
...I think their ability to joke around with each other kinda show what type of car you can produced when you have teamwork...

Ya, and a $500000 yearly budget. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif That's the number I've gotten from one of my pretty plugged in sources. I'm just glad to see that they really live up to the hype. Their cars are pretty f'n rad!

-Kirk

[KC Coyle]

Good Luck FAU OWLS from HOT and HUMID South Florida. Can't wait to see pictures, results... GO GET 'EM! kc and the gang back in Boca.

[Stef de Jong]

you can find pictures from the Delft car testing at MSU here:

http://www.lightatwork.nl/dag1/


Stef de Jong
DUTRacing

[Natho]

There is pictures of the rmit car testing at Oakland University here.

http://www.fsae.rmit.edu.au/Photo%20Galleries/Testing%2...om_Detroit_2008.htm] ( [url="http://www.fsae.rmit.edu.au/Photo%20Galleries/Testing%20From%20Detroit%202008/Testing_From_Detroit_2008.htm%5D") http://www.fsae.rmit.edu.au/Photo%20Galleries/Testing%2...troit_2008.htm (http://www.fsae.rmit.edu.au/Photo%20Galleries/Testing%20From%20Detroit%202008/Testing_From_Detroit_2008.htm%5B/URL%5D)[/url]

Cheers,

Nathan Chenco
RMIT Racing
www.fsae.rmit.edu.au (http://www.fsae.rmit.edu.au)

[Natho]

Sorry here

www.fsae.rmit.edu.au (http://www.fsae.rmit.edu.au)

[carboneater]

Originally posted by Kirk Feldkamp:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RiNaZ:
...I think their ability to joke around with each other kinda show what type of car you can produced when you have teamwork...

Ya, and a $500000 yearly budget. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif That's the number I've gotten from one of my pretty plugged in sources. I'm just glad to see that they really live up to the hype. Their cars are pretty f'n rad!

-Kirk </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

don't forget our privat learjets and the trucks all over the world!! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Sorry, I've to say that, but "$500000 yearly budget" is absolutley nonsense!!

[franz887]

http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
the graz budget discussion starts again! Yeah! I was waiting for that all the time!
http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Design Semifinals:

002 University of Western Australia - UWA Motorsport

003 Graz University of Technology - TU Graz Racing Team

005 University of Toronto - University of Toronto Formula SAE Racing

006 University of Florida - Gator Motorsports

009 Rensselaer Polytechnic Inst - RPI Formula SAE

013 Auburn University - War Eagle Motorsports

016 Purdue University - W Lafayette - Purdue Formula SAE

018 Delft Univ of Technology - DUT Racing

040 Univ of Applied Sciences - Graz - Joanneum Racing Graz

064 National University of Singapore - Team NUS MotorSports

078 Ecole De Technologie Superieure - ETS Motorsports

084 Technical University of Munchen - TUfast

085 Penn State Univ - University Park - Penn State Racing

100 Helsinki Polytechnic - Stadia Motorsport



Good luck!

wia samma?...

[Stef de Jong]

new pictures from the Delft team!

I don't know for sure if we've already passed the Scrutineering, since the news update didn't arrive yet.
But hey... at least we have pictures...

http://www.lightatwork.nl/dag2/

* update: Delft did pass scrutineering, ans scored 84 points at the Cost Event!

[RiNaZ]

keep it coming stef!

damn, it was only last week that i saw Mr. Royce at the F-Hybrid competition, and now he's in michigan doing the FSAE. That's just amazing. I wonder if he's gonna be at all the competitions this year.

p/s: is that lady inspecting your car one of the judges? I wonder if she's Mr. Royce's wife. One thing for sure, you dont wanna piss her off.

[franz887]

Rinaz you're right! That's Mrs. Royce.

[HenningO]

Looks like the Europeans are taking over the design event... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Kimmo Hirvonen]

Originally posted by HenningO:
Looks like the Europeans are taking over the design event... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

You're right about that Henning. Rumour tells that design finalists are:
Helsinki
TuGraz
Delft
ETS

I just got some info from our guys. I'll upload it to our website in a minute. Pictures will probably follow later.

[Peter]

Rumour tells that design finalists are:


I heard the same rumours from the Delft team. (thnx Samoooo!! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)



Peter
Delft FSUK04, FSG06

[franz887]

rumours seem to be confirmed:

http://racing.tugraz.at/de/home/usa-2008/usa-neuigkeiten/berichterstattung/

[franz887]

cost event is also online - see link above

[Stef de Jong]

Yeah, Delft in the Design finals! also 85 points at the Cost Event...

I heard we did a 5.12 on the skidpad (average/lap) and a 4.25 at acc... very promising..

* update: Just heard Delft is second at the Business presentation, at the moment of typing in cueue for autocross..

pictures from the scrutineering day:
http://www.lightatwork.nl/dag3/

[RiNaZ]

what happened to the car in the picture? did it break the suspension during brake test or something?

[Dan Deussen @ Weber Motor]

I just got the word that Saginaw Valley State University won acceleration. Go Cards!!!!

[Nihal]

Originally posted by Dan G:
Flying out tomorrow to take some pickatures.

If anyone has blown their GT12/15V, contact me before 3pm PST.

Hey Duder, any chance you could post some pics?

[Tim Petrillo]

Hey DanG did you make it out? Ive been looking all over for you.

[Mikko Ahola]

Unofficial overall before autocross and endurance:

1. Delft
2. TU Graz
3. Helsinki
4. UWA

Then if I remember right it was Cornell and RMIT...

But will be changing a bit after AutoX... Delft is going strong! Good luck to all for the endurance!

[Dan G]

Tim, yea I'm here. I was out in the dynamic area all day. 8 gigs worth of pics, I'll try to find a few good ones. Upload them soon.

[Kirk Feldkamp]

Originally posted by carboneater:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kirk Feldkamp:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RiNaZ:
...I think their ability to joke around with each other kinda show what type of car you can produced when you have teamwork...

Ya, and a $500000 yearly budget. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif That's the number I've gotten from one of my pretty plugged in sources. I'm just glad to see that they really live up to the hype. Their cars are pretty f'n rad!

-Kirk </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

don't forget our privat learjets and the trucks all over the world!! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Sorry, I've to say that, but "$500000 yearly budget" is absolutley nonsense!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then there are some people in high up places spreading rumors about you. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif That'd be ~350k EURO's if you're wondering, which is the original number I heard. Care to share the real numbers if my source is off? I know I'm interested.

-Kirk

[brettd]

Very unofficial rankings so far (taking numbers from the Graz site http://racing.tugraz.at/de/home/usa-2008/usa-neuigkeiten/berichterstattung/ )
Also remember that DUT, Graz, Helsinki and ETS are in design finals so they don't have a design score yet:

1. Joanneum Racing Graz 519
2. UWA 507
3. RIT 492
4. Missouri UST 490
5. TUFast 485
6. Rennteam Stuttgart 481
7. RMIT 478
8. Wisconsin 477
9. Saginaw 473
10. Toronto 460

keep in mind there is TU Delft, TU Graz, ETS and Helsinki who should get 130+ so putting that in there we have Graz with 485-505, Delft with 529-549, Helsinki with 480-500 and ETS with 445-465.

Again, these are extremely unofficial, I just added up the scores from the Graz website and I've probably made quite a few mistakes so please check them and correct me. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Andres]

hey, anyone knows the results of auto x?
thx!

[Thomas MuWe]

@brett d:

You are right. We have the same numbers calculated as you.

[Stef de Jong]

new pictures from Delft (dynamics day)at

http://www.lightatwork.nl/dag4/

I'm keeping my finger crossed for the Endurance!

Go Delft, Go Miki, Go Stefan, Go Famke!

[Mike Hart]

Brilliant pictures again Stef. Out of interest, have you got any of the Oxford Brookes car? I know they were in a rush to get things ready for the US, and I was wondering how they were doing over there representing the UK.

[Stef de Jong]

Well,

First of all, I'm in rainy Holland so I'm not the guy making the pictures... I haven't got any pcitures of the Oxford car either. But you can give your team a call right?

PS.. was you at silverstone last year doing the Delft Dance with us ? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Mike Hart]

Will perhaps see if I can get some info off them. Their website is down at the moment!

I think it was us that did the group shoot with you guys http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I seem to remember you all outnumbering us approx 3:1 :P LOL I take it your coming to UK again? Should be a good laugh. I'm looking forward to the free beer at Germany though TBH http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[franz887]

quote www.racing.tugraz.at: (http://www.racing.tugraz.at:)


We just finished the endurance event. Many of the top-teams did too, many others are still on track. Some other top-teams dropped out of the race: 018 Delft Univ of Technology - DUT Racing, 100 Helsinki Polytechnic - Stadia Motorsport and 040 Univ of Applied Sciences - Graz - Joanneum Racing Graz.

[ttk3]

That's going to shake things up a bit.

edit:
Apparently, RIT dropped out of endurance on the final lap due to a radiator cap failure... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[E. Saenz]

What was everyones final fuel consumption.

FAU came in at roughly 3300

[Mikko Ahola]

This is a fun game...

We were flagged out with the meatball flag (black/orange) on the 3rd lap of endurance. Could not believe it. I think no-one did at first. First it was a bit confusing why did they do that. Anyway they would not let us continue. The first impression was that the driver was not inside the 2" rule (front/mainroll hoops, checked at scrutineering with all drivers) then it was the harness not being tight enough (checke when going to track). Then the final judgement was that when drivers helmet was against the headrest the driver could not see enough... And this all begun from a bit front-leaning driving position of our driver. We showed the organisers the picture at the cover of the event handbook (wisconsin from last years endu) where the driver clearly does not go into 2" rule. They said that the rules have been tightened from last year. They just didn´t tell that to anyone...

The most dissapointing thing in this point is that we really could have fixed these issues if they were shown to us at scrutineering. Now the DNF is based on a visual inspection during the endurance event...

So it will be an interesting design final between ETS and TU Graz. We´ll be around with Delft guys but I guess the effort will be quite minimal...

[fade]

damn that sucks Mikko. I guess youll have to make a Hans device which hold the drivers head against the headrest for next years car.

[Brooklyn]

Does anyone know what happened to UTA and their DQ?

[michaelwaltrip]

the story I heard is that they were dq'ed after endurance because the endplates on the rear wing were too far behind the rear tires. not exactly sure though

[Dr. Bob Woods]

After the endurance event, the UTA car was judged to have the end plate of the rear wing extending 1" behind the vertical plane of the rear tires in the static position. This was not measured during the initial tech inspection, but we were disqualified after the event. That's probably all I need to say about it.

-Dr. Bob Woods
UTA

[Neil S]

URGENT!!! If anyone has video of the Missouri S&T car going "off course" during endurance please let me know ASAP 618-334-3175

[Matt N]

If you add up the most recently posted scores on the Graz site, UWA has ~862 and the next four teams are between 827 and 833pts - TUFast, Stuttgart, RMIT, and Wisconsin. If the numbers are close, then the finish will be close as well.

I guess us US teams need to step it up a little!

Matt

[Professor Gas Can]

Lawn Mower Engine....14th Place!? Woot, Woot, Woot!

[Tim Petrillo]

I have a pic of Missouri S&T off the course on my camera by the far big sweeping corner

[Neil S]

Does it show that we are turning around to re-enter in the correct direction? Give me a call any time.

[Dave Evans]

Originally posted by Mikko Ahola:
This is a fun game...

We were flagged out with the meatball flag (black/orange) on the 3rd lap of endurance. Could not believe it. I think no-one did at first. First it was a bit confusing why did they do that. Anyway they would not let us continue. The first impression was that the driver was not inside the 2" rule (front/mainroll hoops, checked at scrutineering with all drivers) then it was the harness not being tight enough (checke when going to track). Then the final judgement was that when drivers helmet was against the headrest the driver could not see enough... And this all begun from a bit front-leaning driving position of our driver. We showed the organisers the picture at the cover of the event handbook (wisconsin from last years endu) where the driver clearly does not go into 2" rule. They said that the rules have been tightened from last year. They just didn´t tell that to anyone...

The most dissapointing thing in this point is that we really could have fixed these issues if they were shown to us at scrutineering. Now the DNF is based on a visual inspection during the endurance event...

So it will be an interesting design final between ETS and TU Graz. We´ll be around with Delft guys but I guess the effort will be quite minimal...

That's really unlucky! Sorry to hear you got caught out for something that should have been picked up in tech, especially with all this new increased emphasis on percy and head positioning.

Looking at some of your pictures testing your car, if you didn't change any of the headrest at all from them, I can see exactly why they would have pulled you, the drivers head is at least 6in from the headrest.
http://www.formula.stadia.fi/kuvat/FSAE08/album/09_05_2...slides/IMG_9229.html (http://www.formula.stadia.fi/kuvat/FSAE08/album/09_05_2008/slides/IMG_9229.html)
http://www.formula.stadia.fi/kuvat/FSAE08/album/11_05_2...slides/IMG_9938.html (http://www.formula.stadia.fi/kuvat/FSAE08/album/11_05_2008/slides/IMG_9938.html)

Was the driver just leaning forward when driving? Or did they have a seat insert that moved them a lot further forward?

[KC Coyle]

Attention: Elio of OWLS Racing (or any member of the FAU team)--- what's happening? Your academic advisor, faculty and fellow ME students want to know? grins - kc

[Mike Claffey]

Heard that TU Graz just won design. (Congratulations!)

update: I've been told overall:

1. UWA (hooray we finally cracked it!)
2. Stuttgart
3. Munich

UWA: Dynamic events(1st), Enduro/Fuel(3rd), Altair suspension award(1st), Body award(1st), Powertrain award(2nd)

Don't know much about the other teams unfortunately.

Are you guys celebrating over in the lab brett?
∨ ∨ ∨ ∨ ∨ ∨

[brettd]

From what I heard:
1. UWA
2. Stuttgart
3. Munich

[Kevin Thomassen]

Some news about the Design Finals?
1. Graz
2. ?
3. ?
4. ?

[brettd]

Hey Kevin,

Again from what I've heard it was

Tu Graz, ETS, Helsinki then Delft.

I think that may mean Graz may be in the 4th spot but I'm not sure...

Yeah Mike, was for a bit, it was really drawn out though as we got an sms, then spent the next 20 minutes trying to call them!

[Euphoric]

It was my first time being there and I had a great time. I didnt get to see as much of the other cars as I had hoped to but thats cause our own car needed work lol . Some of those high budget teams cars are just mind blowing.

[ChrisS]

Congrats to all the other teams!!!

We had a great time at comp this year, cheers to all the teams that lent us tools and helped out at comp.

Where is everyone going out tonight??
We are in Brooklyn by one of the lakes and looking to celebrate with some other teams somewhere.

Our mobile number is 734-344-0052

Chris
UWA Motorsport

[Dennis Seichter]

I'd say, quite a triumph for german engineering!

Im Süden werden halt immernoch die besten Autos gebaut http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Brett Neale]

Wow, huge congrats go out to all at UWA for another amazing result! It's been a huge year for you guys - 2nd at Detroit last year, then 2 titles in 6 months at FSAE-A and Detroit. You'd have to easily be the #1 team in the world right now.

A great result for RMIT also, 5th according to the unofficial results from TUGraz. Well done gents!

[Davo]

Congratulations UWA! Its awesome to see Aussie engineers out there taking on the world and winning. Also well done to RMIT for their fantastic result. Top 2 in Aus and top 5 in the world is a massive achievement. I also heard Wollongong were competing but I haven't seen any info yet.

Also congrats to TUGraz and thanks for all the updates. Seems like you guys were the only real source of info and scores during the event so cheers for keeping us all informed.

[Professor Gas Can]

Props to RIT and UTA. You guys had some bad ass cars that I wished to have seen finish endurance. SUNY Buffalo was routing for you.

[KH]

Originally posted by Davo:
Congratulations UWA! Its awesome to see Aussie engineers out there taking on the world and winning. Also well done to RMIT for their fantastic result. Top 2 in Aus and top 5 in the world is a massive achievement. I also heard Wollongong were competing but I haven't seen any info yet.

Also congrats to TUGraz and thanks for all the updates. Seems like you guys were the only real source of info and scores during the event so cheers for keeping us all informed.

----------

Congrats and agree! The TUGraz webteam has been an excellent source of up to the minute updates and really appreciate the true spirit of community. The photo essay by http://www.lightatwork.nl/dag1/ is fantastic too of the daily happenings. Most enjoyable. Thanks all!

[DustinJones]

Congrats to all teams who made it to competition this year. Getting a car ready for comp is a great achievement in itself. The foreign teams were amazing again (Tu Graz and Helsinki were my personal favorites). U of Evansville finished endurance (27th) for the first time ever, we were very happy for this year's car. Does anyone know what happened to Purdue? I saw them pull in at driver change and they never came back.

[exFSAE]

Lot of cool groups at competition, as usual. Very nice driving from RIT, and a really cool overall performance from Singapore.

I give UWA and RMIT a lot of credit. Well designed, well built, clean cars.. fast drivers.. and both very cool friendly groups to talk to. Really top notch.

[KH]

Originally posted by exFSAE:
Lot of cool groups at competition, as usual. Very nice driving from RIT, and a really cool overall performance from Singapore.

I give UWA and RMIT a lot of credit. Well designed, well built, clean cars.. fast drivers.. and both very cool friendly groups to talk to. Really top notch.

I think so too, re Singapore team, my home country. Thanks for the compliments. Nice to read it here on this cool Forum.

[AutoJim]

I had a lot of fun working the event this year. I was out there thanks to the kind permission of my employer (GM), and was there to help Detroit SCCA with the dynamic events. Thursday was setup day, and some of you may have seen me Friday at Skidpad 2 (I was the Michelin Man-looking guy in white around the starting line), and working Station 5 on the autocross course. Saturday, I was at Station 3 (last passing area on the "out" leg through the first half of the turnaround), again looking like the Michelin Man wearing an orange vest sized for someone considerably smaller.

The squiggle just prior to our passing lane had Everybody's Favorite Pylon, the apex cone of the exiting left-hander of the squiggle.

My knees and feet? They should feel normal again around Wednesday...

At least I didn't need to use a fire extinguisher this year, though Munich (Car 84 Orange/White/Black) had me wondering for a while as their hot exhaust system cooked off some lovely smoke and even lovelier plastic-burning smells from the nearby bodywork.

Thanks for playing safe, kids. And, to those whose day unfortunately ended at my station, also for mostly listening to the old fart (my 18 year old thinks I'm ancient as I approach my 40th birthday later this year) with the 2-way radio headset telling you what to do.

[BrendonD]

Speaking of everyone's favorite pylon, I was sitting at the "death corner" as it was called for a good bit of the autocross portion, must have seen 7 cars hit the same puddle and go out of course.

[Mikko Ahola]

Originally posted by Dave Evans:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mikko Ahola:
This is a fun game...

We were flagged out with the meatball flag (black/orange) on the 3rd lap of endurance. Could not believe it. I think no-one did at first. First it was a bit confusing why did they do that. Anyway they would not let us continue. The first impression was that the driver was not inside the 2" rule (front/mainroll hoops, checked at scrutineering with all drivers) then it was the harness not being tight enough (checke when going to track). Then the final judgement was that when drivers helmet was against the headrest the driver could not see enough... And this all begun from a bit front-leaning driving position of our driver. We showed the organisers the picture at the cover of the event handbook (wisconsin from last years endu) where the driver clearly does not go into 2" rule. They said that the rules have been tightened from last year. They just didn´t tell that to anyone...

The most dissapointing thing in this point is that we really could have fixed these issues if they were shown to us at scrutineering. Now the DNF is based on a visual inspection during the endurance event...

So it will be an interesting design final between ETS and TU Graz. We´ll be around with Delft guys but I guess the effort will be quite minimal...

That's really unlucky! Sorry to hear you got caught out for something that should have been picked up in tech, especially with all this new increased emphasis on percy and head positioning.

Looking at some of your pictures testing your car, if you didn't change any of the headrest at all from them, I can see exactly why they would have pulled you, the drivers head is at least 6in from the headrest.
http://www.formula.stadia.fi/kuvat/FSAE08/album/09_05_2...slides/IMG_9229.html (http://www.formula.stadia.fi/kuvat/FSAE08/album/09_05_2008/slides/IMG_9229.html)
http://www.formula.stadia.fi/kuvat/FSAE08/album/11_05_2...slides/IMG_9938.html (http://www.formula.stadia.fi/kuvat/FSAE08/album/11_05_2008/slides/IMG_9938.html)

Was the driver just leaning forward when driving? Or did they have a seat insert that moved them a lot further forward? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually we did change the seat and so the driving position as we did know that the 2" rule would be tight. And we have to also agree that our driver does lean forward for quite a bit.

But why did they let us drive 3 whole dynamic events the day before? And let us on the track at all? And after pulling us out there were no remeasurements or anything...

[Mikko Ahola]

If there are teams going for a holiday in NYC after the comp we are probably going to setup a small meeting in Central Park at the weekend. There will be members from Helsinki, UAS Graz and TU Graz... Day and time still open...

[brettd]

So did anyone take pictures?

[RiNaZ]

Can you guys share your experiences at this year's competition regarding the rules and the judging? seems like some teams were disqualified for unintentional mistakes.

p/s: does anybody have the brochures/program from this year's competition? I have one from Formula Hybrid, maybe we can swap? I also got t-shirt http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

[JDS]

Originally posted by DustinJones:
Congrats to all teams who made it to competition this year. Getting a car ready for comp is a great achievement in itself. The foreign teams were amazing again (Tu Graz and Helsinki were my personal favorites). U of Evansville finished endurance (27th) for the first time ever, we were very happy for this year's car. Does anyone know what happened to Purdue? I saw them pull in at driver change and they never came back.

I don't think they were able to restart their engine after the driver change.

[DubTizzle]

Congratulations to all! Well done! Can you guys post your pictures? Thanks!

[Erick Scarpone]

Originally posted by RiNaZ:
what happened to the car in the picture? did it break the suspension during brake test or something?

The car in the picture broke during break test a rod end on each side broke and that started a chain reaction luckly the uprights did not break and we got the car running after a whole night of rebuilding the wishbones, it was all fun and worht it, need to improve a lot more for next year but what better way of learning than breaking!

It was a cool comp loved the interaction with teams I had tons of fun! congratulations to everyone!

Erick

[RacingManiac]

For those wondering about pics...they are coming, probably will be up before end of today...

Congrats to UWA for winning it all, and special mention to Cincinatti for finishing right in front of Toronto for 3rd comp in a row, we'll get you sometime.....lol

[MacGyver27]

Thanks to all for a great competition. Check out some of the good press at windingroad.com: article (http://news.windingroad.com/motorsports/formula-sae-championship-like-racing-in-the-%e2%80%9860s/#more-16896)

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

When will the results be up? I asusme they will be found on the SAE website where the endurance ones are in latests news?

Not that it matters, we finished endurance but didnt get squat for it because of the 133% speed rule....that and they brought us in, we removed our driver and started celebrating then someone walked over and said get back in you have 2 more laps!

[adrial]

What is the 133% speed rule?

[t21jj]

Despite not competing in the dynamic events we still had fun and completed all the static events despite a non running car. A combination of an extremely young team and a complete car redesign led to our fate. However nobody from the team is graduating and we are looking forward to next year. Plus we met our weight target of 370lbs. Thanks to all who stopped by and said hi despite a non running car. Lots of photos to follow, most from endurance. If anybody wants a full resolution copy 3072x2304 just let me know. I've also got lots more similar to these.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c142/tviper2005/FSAE2008/IMG_1049.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c142/tviper2005/FSAE2008/IMG_1047.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c142/tviper2005/FSAE2008/IMG_1045.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c142/tviper2005/FSAE2008/IMG_1037.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c142/tviper2005/FSAE2008/IMG_1029.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c142/tviper2005/FSAE2008/IMG_1023.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c142/tviper2005/FSAE2008/IMG_1022.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c142/tviper2005/FSAE2008/IMG_1143.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c142/tviper2005/FSAE2008/IMG_1127.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c142/tviper2005/FSAE2008/IMG_1121.jpg

[t21jj]

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c142/tviper2005/FSAE2008/IMG_1114.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c142/tviper2005/FSAE2008/IMG_1113.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c142/tviper2005/FSAE2008/IMG_1112.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c142/tviper2005/FSAE2008/IMG_1110.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c142/tviper2005/FSAE2008/IMG_1093.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c142/tviper2005/FSAE2008/IMG_1077.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c142/tviper2005/FSAE2008/IMG_1073.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c142/tviper2005/FSAE2008/IMG_1065.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c142/tviper2005/FSAE2008/IMG_1064.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c142/tviper2005/FSAE2008/IMG_1058.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c142/tviper2005/FSAE2008/IMG_1053.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c142/tviper2005/FSAE2008/IMG_1164.jpg

[RacingManiac]

My 2008 FSAE East Album....

http://picasaweb.google.com/racingmaniac/FormulaSAE2008

As usual, if your team see something they can use just PM me with the file name and a e-mail address that can recieve big files(full size pic are around 3008x2000 and ~1MB each) and I'll e-mail you...

[Yoshi]

Hey could you email me the full picture of the Tennessee Tech car on the skid pad, number 44? I believe the file name is OthersFSAE_001.jpg. Or any other picture of the car you may or anyone else may have?

Email is in profile.

Thanks!

[fade]

is something broken in that pic?

[DustinJones]

I happen to have a picture of Car 111 bumping into Columbia University during the endurance race. I was taking pictures of the two when they touched. I'll post it when I get home tonight.

[fade]

did anyone get the weight of the cars in design finals?

[RacingManiac]

Delft: 320-ish?
Helsinki: 440
ETS: 330-ish?
TU Graz: 391

[AutoJim]

Originally posted by DustinJones:
I happen to have a picture of Car 111 bumping into Columbia University during the endurance race. I was taking pictures of the two when they touched. I'll post it when I get home tonight.

I was the corner captain who called that in. Wasn't #111's fault. Columbia's car hiccuped (repeatedly) and that was that. Looked exceptionally minor to my crew and myself, couldn't even see a scuff on 111's nose after. Called it in that way.

PS: To Missouri S&T: You missed the gates. Really.

[Scorpio]

Good article with few pictures.

http://news.windingroad.com/motorsports/formula-sae-cha...in-the-%e2%80%9860s/ (http://news.windingroad.com/motorsports/formula-sae-championship-like-racing-in-the-%e2%80%9860s/)

[2BWise]

Originally posted by RacingManiac:
For those wondering about pics...they are coming, probably will be up before end of today...

Congrats to UWA for winning it all, and special mention to Cincinatti for finishing right in front of Toronto for 3rd comp in a row, we'll get you sometime.....lol

Us down in Cincy have got to shoot for something, right? j/k. We were able to overcome some hiccups on Friday to put down a healthy Enduro run, which really helped. It was amazing the level of competition that was present this year.

[Yoshi]

Originally posted by fade:
is something broken in that pic?

No we just had no camber curve in the back so the angle of the wheel was the same as the angle of the body roll. Something to rethink next year.

[DustinJones]

Originally posted by AutoJim:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DustinJones:
I happen to have a picture of Car 111 bumping into Columbia University during the endurance race. I was taking pictures of the two when they touched. I'll post it when I get home tonight.

I was the corner captain who called that in. Wasn't #111's fault. Columbia's car hiccuped (repeatedly) and that was that. Looked exceptionally minor to my crew and myself, couldn't even see a scuff on 111's nose after. Called it in that way.

PS: To Missouri S&T: You missed the gates. Really. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree, I think Columbia might have missed a shift. I just happened to snap a picture at the time.

[James Waltman]

Congratulations to everyone.
Some really great looking cars.
Sounds like pretty stiff competition this year.

What's with the extra "bodywork" on the back of the SVSU car? And the pinched tailpipe?
http://www.etudiants.polymtl.ca/fsae/gallery/albums/formulasae2008-others/121_Saginaw_Valley_State_Univ.sized.jpg
Photo by Julian Choquette (http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8356059423/m/17710659441)

I'm guessing it's a small engine based on the overall packaging and maybe a single based on the twin muffler setup.
Dan Deussen or anyone else have an idea?

[Dan Deussen @ Weber Motor]

Originally posted by James Waltman:
Congratulations to everyone.
Some really great looking cars.
Sounds like pretty stiff competition this year.

What's with the extra "bodywork" on the back of the SVSU car? And the pinched tailpipe?

Photo by Julian Choquette (http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8356059423/m/17710659441)

I'm guessing it's a small engine based on the overall packaging and maybe a single based on the twin muffler setup.
Dan Deussen or anyone else have an idea?

Word I got from another alumn is that for some reason they were not able to pass noise and the second muffler with pinched outlet and added bodywork were necessary to pass it. The engine is still a standard 4-cyl motorcycle engine.

[Scorpio]

some more pictures:

http://bucchi.smugmug.com/FSAE%20AT%20MIS

[Landreneau]

Anyone got pictures of Pitt chasing/passing PSU?

[Dan G]

I put a few shots from Friday up...

http://evilengineering.com/gallery/v/SAE/FSAE/FSAE08/

<A HREF="http://evilengineering.com/gallery/v/SAE/FSAE/FSAE08/" TARGET=_blank>http://evilengineering.com/gallery/d/24845-2/IMG_4136.JPG

http://evilengineering.com/gallery/d/24854-2/IMG_4626.JPG

http://evilengineering.com/gallery/d/24905-2/IMG_5379.JPG </A>

[David BV]

Scores are up on SAE.org

http://www.sae.org/servlets/pressRoom?OBJECT_TYPE=Press...RMULA&RELEASE_ID=794 (http://www.sae.org/servlets/pressRoom?OBJECT_TYPE=PressReleases&PAGE=showCDSNews&EVENT=FORMULA&RELEASE_ID=794)

See file at the end of the release!

1st place – University of Western Australia
2nd place – University of Stuttgart
3rd place – Technical University of Munchen
4th place – University of Wisconsin - Madison
5th place – RMIT University
6th place – Graz University of Technology
7th place – Cornell University
8th place – Missouri University of Science and Technology
9th place – University of Florida
10th place – University of Cincinnati


Congrats!

[AutoJim]

Originally posted by Scorpio:
some more pictures:

http://bucchi.smugmug.com/FSAE%20AT%20MIS

Kim is Detroit SCCA's close-as-it-gets-to-official photographer, and she had a Ghod Pass for all the dynamic events. Look for many more pics from her in the coming days -- she also has strict quality control and won't upload anything she doesn't think is worthy!

[Marshall Grice]

Originally posted by Dan G:
I put a few shots from Friday up...

http://evilengineering.com/gallery/d/24854-2/IMG_4626.JPG


looks like MST should have gotten the meat ball also...

that might even be 2" over the line. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[fade]

maybe they could attach a magnetic tether(stop switch like on a treadmill) to the back of the helmet that would kill the engine if your head moved too far from the pad. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[golftdibrad]

survey response....

"27. If you were unsatisfied about any part of the event tell us why?

Besides the rain and cold? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

We spent Forever in Tech because the inspector insisted on us taking apart the car to check stupid things like wires behind the engine. We were in Tech for almost three hours.

Brake and noise judges left early for lunch and were partially responsible for us missing skidpad and accel. Suggestion: stagger lunch breaks OR schedule them so that dynamic tech and the running event close at the same time.

Were black flagged for 'aggressive driving' for hitting a the same cone TWICE in enduro. THEN we were not given the correct amount of time to re-fire the car b/c the judge was not paying attention. To top it off, the manner in which he told us were were done was UNACCEPTABLE. Waving a finger and telling us 'your done' with an ear to ear grin is not the way to tell someone that they are not completing a goal they have worked toward for over a year. Some discretion and tact would serve that particular judge well if he wants to avoid a confrontation.

Also, DQ'ing cars after tech Has passed is BS-that is what tech is for. A protest is one thing, and a blatant safety issue another. At the end of the day there is a degree of risk playing with racecars, if its not caught in tech it must not be that bad."

[a.taylor]

Just like to say congrats to the crew from UWA on behalf of wollogong, great that you have finally done it. We will be chassing you hard at aus this year http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

For those who we're wondering, yes we were registered for it but a lack of financial forsight meant that we we'rent able to raise the funds nesecary to make the trip in the few months between FSAE-A and putting the car in a box on a boat.

That wont happen to us again, we're planing for 2009.

Cheers, and congrats again.
Andrew

[B Hise]

UTA and S&T:

were the aero cars loose at MIS?

[STL1PSU]

Congrats to everyone.

A little Irony........

Missouri S&T won the Hoosier Tire Autocross Award running on Goodyears

AND

Stuttgart won the Goodyear Best Performance Award running on Hoosiers

[TMichaels]

Congrats to UWA and of course to the european teams...the pot was close...

Does anybody know what the kind of failure was that stopped Delft in the endurance?

Regards,

Tobi

[TGiffer]

Just wanted to congratulate everyone at MIS this year. Lots of nice cars. The competition gets tougher every year. RIT is looking forward to FS Germany in August. Gotta represent the states. Anyone know why Wisconsin isn't coming this year?

[Chris Lane]

Originally posted by golftdibrad:
Also, DQ'ing cars after tech Has passed is BS-that is what tech is for. A protest is one thing, and a blatant safety issue another. At the end of the day there is a degree of risk playing with racecars, if its not caught in tech it must not be that bad."

I agree to a certain degree.

Rules violations and unsafe parts of the car should be picked up in the technical inspection so that the entrants may rectify the problem if possible. That said, cars should be able to be DQ'ed after tech inspection to allow for car deterioration and leaks; problems that should have been sorted in testing ages before the competition. It is your own fault if you did not build it reliable enough to get through the comp. Remember, most of these guys are volunteers so there are always going to be errors. But would the comp run without them?

It is also not the marshals' fault if they are insensitive to your cause. That is racing; you just gotta wear it.

[golftdibrad]

Originally posted by Chris Lane:


It is also not the marshals' fault if they are insensitive to your cause. That is racing; you just gotta wear it.

Thanks for the support. The survey was to see how the event could be improved, and i made suggestions. If that 'marshal' continues to carry an attitude like that he is going to have a much more sensitive jaw line in the future.

[KC Coyle]

Congratulations to UWA and all the teams who participated - what a great accomplishment.

A huge WOO WOO shout out to FAU's Owls Racing Team - you all were and are AWESOME! You accomplished so much with less than ten team members and limited resources. As your academic advisor and cheerleader so proud of you all! Next year I'm not sitting at home ... I'll be there! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[AutoJim]

Originally posted by golftdibrad:If that 'marshal' continues to carry an attitude like that he is going to have a much more sensitive jaw line in the future.

Then you can find out how the jails are in Michigan. Nearby Jackson is the home to the state's maximum security prison.

After a brief stay in the hospital to have your injuries tended to.

Don't mess with the white-suits. We volunteer our time, our physical safety (yes, #2 enduro driver from UWA, I'm talking to YOU), and our travel budgets to stand on asphalt for several days so you kids can play racecar driver.

To be perfectly honest here, there were 4+ cars that should not have been allowed back on track after either meatballs (mechanical black flags) or driver change, but tech let them back on course. We were fortunate this year that none of them let go and oiled down the track (or worse).

So how about channelling all that anger into making your car more reliable next year so you don't have to worry about whether or not it restarts?

[Mexellent]

Originally posted by Marshall Grice:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dan G:
I put a few shots from Friday up...

http://evilengineering.com/gallery/d/24854-2/IMG_4626.JPG


looks like MST should have gotten the meat ball also...

that might even be 2" over the line. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yup.

There was also a german team with carbon wheels that had a transponder mounted on the rear of the car. They could have been dq'ed if someone had protested them after endurance.

It sucks that we got dq'ed for having our endplates stick out past the rear tires. If we would have known, we would have fixed it since it was adjustable (its part of the sway bars). Rules are rules though.

The course was pretty much perfect for us though. Everything was good except for the little 90 degree stuff they like to through in here and there. We're kinda clumsy through tight stuff like that. But the back section was AWESOME. I hope tracks are this good in the future.

As far as grip is concerned, its not bad. After going to topeka anything is good!

[Collin Galganski]

Does anyone have a picture of the final results that were posted at the event? They still have not posted it up on the website.

Congrats to UWA, an awesome car as always. Also, congrats to Stuttgart and Munich, we wish we could come to FSG again, just won't happen this year.

[t21jj]

Results were posted a day or two ago.
http://www.sae.org/images/cds/211313531_FSAE_2008_result.pdf

[ad]

Whats your favourite colour???

[Collin Galganski]

Results were posted a day or two ago.
http://www.sae.org/images/cds/211313531_FSAE_2008_result.pdf

Thanks, must have missed that.

[golftdibrad]

Originally posted by AutoJim:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by golftdibrad:If that 'marshal' continues to carry an attitude like that he is going to have a much more sensitive jaw line in the future.

Then you can find out how the jails are in Michigan. Nearby Jackson is the home to the state's maximum security prison.

After a brief stay in the hospital to have your injuries tended to.

Don't mess with the white-suits. We volunteer our time, our physical safety (yes, #2 enduro driver from UWA, I'm talking to YOU), and our travel budgets to stand on asphalt for several days so you kids can play racecar driver.

To be perfectly honest here, there were 4+ cars that should not have been allowed back on track after either meatballs (mechanical black flags) or driver change, but tech let them back on course. We were fortunate this year that none of them let go and oiled down the track (or worse).

So how about channelling all that anger into making your car more reliable next year so you don't have to worry about whether or not it restarts? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Was it you? Probably not. Most of the SCCA guys there were awesome, and don't take my dissatisfaction with one person as a general 'anger at everyone' attitude. Most of the people there were really nice and very helpful. The question, and the post is done in the context to make improvements to the event.

I am also not stupid enough to actually hit someone, but i cannot speak for others. my point was if the dude has an attitude like that with everyone he'll catch someone on the wrong day. If I was actually on the dynamic pad for all this he would have guaranteed gotten a piece of my mind.

As an active member in my local SCCA club and future safety steward I know exactly what is involved in putting on event so 'you kids can play racecar driver.' - I don't need the lecture so save it. I didn't mean to ruffle everyones feathers that bad, so my apologies. I'll get back to splitting atoms.

-Brad

[Pete Marsh]

Wow its a long way to the USA from here! For those of you who are going to come to Aus when the world cup is here(lots of you I hope) try to arrange an overnight transit stop before your last leg. I just did 40 hrs of travel with only short transit stops and I don't recommend it!

I would like to thank EVERYONE for an awsome comp. Fantastic venue, well run, great track layout with something for every sort of car. Plenty of stiff competition and a very close finish!
The only way it could have been better would be for RMIT, our greatest rival and motivator, to have had things go their way and be on the podium with us. Behind us in second of course!

For the teams that have never won, hang in there! We didn't really do or have anything different this time compared to other attempts at Detroit, its just the cards fell our way this time. You MUST score well in EVERY event to be there at the end and the rest is out of your control. So many teams do all the right things every year and its easy to feel hard done by if you don't get the result you deserve. But it can happen!

Now get working on something that you can bring to Aus and kick our buts with!

Pete.

[Matthew Bell]

Originally posted by AutoJim:

Don't mess with the white-suits. We volunteer our time, our physical safety (yes, #2 enduro driver from UWA, I'm talking to YOU), and our travel budgets to stand on asphalt for several days so you kids can play racecar driver.

To be perfectly honest here, there were 4+ cars that should not have been allowed back on track after either meatballs (mechanical black flags) or driver change, but tech let them back on course. We were fortunate this year that none of them let go and oiled down the track (or worse).

So how about channelling all that anger into making your car more reliable next year so you don't have to worry about whether or not it restarts?

You also have to remember that some of us do this competition as a way to get a job. It's the culmination of a year in the shop, thousands of man hours, and lots of frayed nerves. We do thank the whitesuits for everything they do. As a SCCA member myself, I also know what it takes to put on an event like this. Seems like golftdibrad is just asking for a little respect to be returned.

[AutoJim]

Originally posted by golftdibrad:

Was it you? Probably not. Most of the SCCA guys there were awesome, and don't take my dissatisfaction with one person as a general 'anger at everyone' attitude. Most of the people there were really nice and very helpful. The question, and the post is done in the context to make improvements to the event.

Nope. I was out at Turn 3. In which position I told a few of your fellow competitors that they were done. Usually after an operating mode of "Move 10 feet under power, stall, crank for 30 seconds, restart, splutter for 10 more feet, stall, crank for 30 seconds, restart, repeat ad nauseum". Meanwhile, traffic is stacking up behind them unless we can get the driver to release the brake/take it out of gear long enough to be pushed/pulled off the track...

At that point, any sympathies for that team's plight are overwhelmed by an immediate need to keep the track clean so the event can keep going. I don't intend to be harsh, but I'm sure I came across as "that mean guy who made us stop".

Conicidentally, if we *didn't* keep the track clear, this place would be full of "We'd have done better if the workers had only gotten {slow car X} out of our way!" posts.


I am also not stupid enough to actually hit someone, but i cannot speak for others. my point was if the dude has an attitude like that with everyone he'll catch someone on the wrong day. If I was actually on the dynamic pad for all this he would have guaranteed gotten a piece of my mind.

What you said was "he is going to have a much more sensitive jaw line" which is pretty much a threat to hit said person in the face, not speak vigorously in his general direction.


As an active member in my local SCCA club and future safety steward I know exactly what is involved in putting on event so 'you kids can play racecar driver.' - I don't need the lecture so save it. I didn't mean to ruffle everyones feathers that bad, so my apologies. I'll get back to splitting atoms.

Say hi to my friend, old-skool Mini driver John Lieberman at the next Red River Region event... he should recognize my nom de net. When I'm not waving flags at races, I'm driving an ESP Mustang in Solo.


Originally posted by Matthew Bell:

You also have to remember that some of us do this competition as a way to get a job. It's the culmination of a year in the shop, thousands of man hours, and lots of frayed nerves. We do thank the whitesuits for everything they do. As a SCCA member myself, I also know what it takes to put on an event like this. Seems like golftdibrad is just asking for a little respect to be returned.

As an alum of the severely under-funded (so underfunded our team leader's credit card was declined at the hotel 'cause it was maxed out, as were just about everyone else's personal cards with no hope of reimbursement) University of Tulsa Mini-Baja program, I understand the work, long hours, all-nighters, and general mayhem one of these efforts makes of the rest of a student's life (My senior GPA was well below the other 3 years I was there, though I aced my MechE classes).

I also understand the "trying to get a job" aspect as well. Baja was featured prominently on my resume and I'm sure played a part in my entry into this business 18 years ago. One of the reasons I've worked FSAE since 1992 (with a few years off in there as job situations changed, affecting my ability to get time away from the office for the event) and was deeply involved in the inaugural HEV Challenge organization was a desire to give back to the kind of student competitions I got so much out of.

As I said above, when you're trying to get as many cars through as you can in a small window of time, expediency often trumps, well, just about anything else. Particularly with the way the weather was looking -- when an against-the clock event like the enduro starts dry and looks like it's going to become very very wet (and it did look that way for a while), you want to cram in as many cars as can safely fit on the track while it's dry.

"We'd have been faster if the {insert suitably perjorative adjective here} officials hadn't made us wait until the rain started."

I guess I should be used to it by now -- we're damned if we do, damned if we don't. Everyone has a better idea about how it should be run (myself included -- and y'all really don't want all of my ideas incorporated unless, like me, you want to have the event over and be on the way home on enduro day by 3pm).

There's NEVER a reason to threaten a volunteer race official with a knuckle sandwich, however. THAT remains a constant.

[golftdibrad]

Originally posted by AutoJim:


There's NEVER a reason to threaten a volunteer race official with a knuckle sandwich, however. THAT remains a constant.

That was not my intent, and admittedly after re-reading the thread that is how it came off; again my apologies. I still hope my suggestion/advice is taken in good faith.
Lets get back to talking about racecars and keep in mind this is supposed to be FUN!

-Brad

[AutoJim]

No worries, Brad.

Now... back to the subject.

I'd love to see a thread here talking about reliability development. Not just because I don't want to move cars by hand at the event http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif, but most importantly because it'll help everyone get better at finishing.

The enduro finish percentage has been in the mid-to-high 40s (I think this year was around 47-48%), and with a little attention to reliability, I see no reason it couldn't get up into the 70s.

There's also a direct carryover into the auto industry with that kind of work. We live on FMEAs (Failure Mode and Effects Analysis) and DVP&R (Design Verification Plan & Report) processes. The FMEA feeds the DVP. Between customer expectations and regulatory requirements, reliability is a critical function and not something to be glossed over.

Getting back to the tech inspector looking at the wiring buried under the engine in the LSU car, Brad -- there are a couple of reliability-related reasons to look at that. One is ensuring that nothing is pinched or shorted, and that the wiring is protected from abrasion, pinching, foreign object damage, and/or heat. The other is servicability. If you have to disassemble the car to get to a wiring connection to troubleshoot, that's a problem. In the real world, the proverbial 10-cent part can incur several hundred dollars in repair bills if it's not in the right place.

Why would tech want to know about that, and not design judging? Well, probably more the first reason than the second. The scrutineers (most of whom are veterans of 10+ FSAE competitions, and in the case of the Royces, many, many more than that) have seen where a poorly-located wiring harness caused a significant problem (i.e. a "thermal event"). Sounds like a minor thing, but it can cause a major problem.

Believe it or not, they're usually not trying to be difficult -- and if you ask (in a non-whiny fashion http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif) why they're interested in something you think is minor, they'll likely tell you.

[MH]

Originally posted by TMichaels:
Does anybody know what the kind of failure was that stopped Delft in the endurance?

Regards,

Tobi

The wiring to the camshaft sensor. Engine stalled once during my run (1st enduro driver) and a lot of times during the second run. In the 14th or 15th lap we were pulled off. Just as well, you can't finish enduro on the starter http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

The team was devastated obviously, going into enduro leading the field.

MH
Delft

[TMichaels]

Thanks for the Information. I offer you my condolences.

Was the wire broken? Or was it the connector that failed?

Regards,

Tobi

[MH]

Originally posted by TMichaels:

Was the wire broken? Or was it the connector that failed?



The connector.

MH
Delft

[Matthew Bell]

Excellent points about wiring, Jim. We did not make it to Detroit this year, but did go to Virginia. Upon replacing a battery, the terminals got switched, melting the wires to the rectifier. Luckily, they were in a separate loom from the main harness or else we would have been sunk. A few wire snips and a new rectifier and we were able to continue. Now, if we could just fix the problem of the wheel falling off...

[VFR750R]

The biggest thing any team can do to improve their reliability is to finish the car at least a few weeks before competition. Easier said then done, i know, but starting the car at comp for the first time leaves anyone in a thick part of the failure probabilities curve.

Failures are going to happen regardless (prototype race-cars) but at least in those few weeks you can work most if not all the bolt loose, bad wire type failures that are the most frustrating.

[rjwoods77]

Wiring kept UBFSAE hostage for nearly two months due to a EE major that we relied to to get it done right. Even after buying all of the crimp tools, correct pins, correct connectors, correct Raychem stuff it still amounted to attention to detail which this kid neither possessed nor cared for. Shit, we completely grenaded an engine at VIR due to an intermittent ignition trace that was later fixed by an ME. Talk about expensive mistake. In the end we squeezed out 18th at MIS which has got us all thrilled beyond belief but we could have done better with more testing time. The car wasn't prepared and didn't handle not so great and the CVT/engine was off so it was slow but just finishing made all the difference. In the weeks leading up to the comp our boys learned on a steep curve about wiring and electronics. This electrical reliabilty fiasco will not soon be forgotten and hopefully wont be a problem later on. I am sure other teams have been victim to reliance on a person who isn't qualified or doesn't do his job and the team pays heavy for it. Mechanical stuff can be figured out quite easy. Electrical gremlins can not. I think it is super important for more than a couple people on a team get familiar with all the electrical stuff on the car since it seems to be the most painful to fix. I guess you can say this about any subsystem but the electrical one is the SOB of them all.

[TMichaels]

I agree one can spend weeks on hunting down gremlins in the electrical system, but it is like in every fsae car system: If it was done and documented properly the first time, it will save you ages in sorting out your problems.

Mechanical engineering and electrical engineering is nearly the same, the only differences are some changed constants in differential equotations.

Regards,

Tobi

[Collin Galganski]

Here are some pics I took from MIS. If there are any of your car, feel free to use them.

http://gallery.uwracing.com/v/208/MIS/Ganskis+MIS+Pics/

[fsae_racing]

That german car that Mexellent is refering to was reported with pictures provided. However nothing was done within the officals.

[RiNaZ]

i havent seen a lot of close ups on all the cars lately. Is it because of the outsiders not allowed to walk around in the garage area?

[VinceL]

Quote:
"That german car that Mexellent is refering to was reported with pictures provided. However nothing was done within the officals."

It isn't a big deal. The transponder is only used for endurance. In the worst case scenario having the transponder on the rear will only gain you 0.3s. So they would have gained 0.6s for the whole endurance. You can work out how many points that is, but I'm guessing it's less than 0.1.

But then again rules are rules.

Cheers,

[BamaJeff]

Originally posted by VinceL:

It isn't a big deal. The transponder is only used for endurance. In the worst case scenario having the transponder on the rear will only gain you 0.3s. So they would have gained 0.6s for the whole endurance. You can work out how many points that is, but I'm guessing it's less than 0.1.

But then again rules are rules.

Cheers,

...and UTA's wing hanging over their rear tire by what appears to be no more than 1" won't give them any advantage...yet, they were DQ'ed.

[Samo Simonian]

Hey Guys,

About the holiday in New York, we (three from Delft) are now in the central park hostel in NY, be here till tuesday. We allready met the Munchen guys in battery park (south manhattan). If anybody still wants to meat up (as in steak or beer) somewehere give us a hint. samo.sim@gmail.com or 0031612556991.

Cheers, have a good one,

Samo, Thijs, Sebastiaan

[Florian]

to clear off the discussion about the rear mounted transponder i have to say that it was aprooved by tech in first place so the officials new about it.

about NEW YORK:

we are here (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=de&geocode=17253331518210070356,40.766599,-73.973544&saddr=40.766593,-73.973533&daddr=&mra=dme&mrcr=0&mrsp=0&sz=19&sll=40.766154,-73.972704&sspn=0.001067,0.002511&ie=UTF8&ll=40.766556,-73.973522&spn=0.001067,0.002511&t=h&z=19)
at about 3pm and want to do a tour through the park afterwards.

see you

[JR @ CFS]

"I'd love to see a thread here talking about reliability development."

Last year we found all of our gremlins by driving the car from 7-midday everyday, followed by checks and assessments in the afternoon, followed usually by remanufacture in the evening! I think we had completed 400km of testing before the car even turned a wheel at the event. Unfortunately a cooling problem bit us at the event and we finished 12th overall, but there were a lot of lessons learned during testing and the result of it was that everything went wrong then, rather than at the event.

[Mikko Ahola]

Originally posted by Florian:
to clear off the discussion about the rear mounted transponder i have to say that it was aprooved by tech in first place so the officials new about it.

about NEW YORK:

we are here (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=de&geocode=17253331518210070356,40.766599,-73.973544&saddr=40.766593,-73.973533&daddr=&mra=dme&mrcr=0&mrsp=0&sz=19&sll=40.766154,-73.972704&sspn=0.001067,0.002511&ie=UTF8&ll=40.766556,-73.973522&spn=0.001067,0.002511&t=h&z=19)
at about 3pm and want to do a tour through the park afterwards.

see you


Ha... Didn´t get up from bed until 4pm...

Team Helsinki usually hangs around Central Park at Sheep Meadow or The Great Lawn. This is usually around 3-7pm. Then by night at 79-81th Street and Amsterdam. There are lots of nice little bars. Just look for a group of drunken monkeys. Thats us!

[Gurkaran]

A few UWA guys are currently in a hostel called Jazz in the city on W 95th Street.

Dunno where we will be hanging out tonight...but will definitely try and catch up with you guys sometime.

[Mexellent]

Originally posted by Florian:
to clear off the discussion about the rear mounted transponder i have to say that it was aprooved by tech in first place so the officials new about it.


Our car was teched with the endplates hanging past the rear wheel. We argued that when they told us we we're DQ'ed.

In the defense of the officials, the rule book is quite big and its impossible to make sure that all the cars meet all the rules.

However, it doesnt matter if it gives them any advantage or not. Its against the rules. We broke the rules and we got punished for it. And that is ok. But whats not OK is that other people got away with breaking the rules and still get points for endurance.

Its even worse if the officials ACTUALLY saw photos of a car breaking the rules and did nothing about it.

Ask Helsinki how they feel about it.

[Chris Lane]

Originally posted by Mexellent:
In the defense of the officials, the rule book is quite big and its impossible to make sure that all the cars meet all the rules.

However, it doesnt matter if it gives them any advantage or not. Its against the rules. We broke the rules and we got punished for it. And that is ok. But whats not OK is that other people got away with breaking the rules and still get points for endurance.


Totally agree

[consig]

to all the teams from abroad who are visiting New York,

hope you are enjoying your stay, are any of you still around? Maybe we can meet up downtown in the village area for some drinks, let me know

consig@cooper.edu
9148415650

The Cooper Union FSAE Team

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

Lovely, we get 41st place in endurace out of 120 teams and get 0 points in it and fuel economy, darn.

Well, I'm an alumni now so...better luck next year for the team I guess.

[TMichaels]

If I understand rule 5.7.17 Endurance Scoring Formula right, then every team finishing the endurance must at least get 50 points. Why were they not awarded to the teams finishing endurance at michigan?

Regards,

Tobi

[Dan Deussen @ Weber Motor]

Tobi,

take a look at rule "5.7.16 Endurance Scoring" it states "A car will also receive
an Endurance Finish Score of fifty (50) points if the team's time for the event,
including penalties, is less than or equal to the maximum allotted time." and the maximum altotted time is Tmax=1.333*Tmin. So basically if you are 1.333 times slower than the fastest car you will not receive points for the event at all.

[kapps]

That's what screwed us this year. This was our first year back at competition with a running car since any of us can remember. Probably '03. We finished all the events, expecting to get a certificate of completion. To our dismay, we found that after the fuel economy penalty (still trying to figure how we used 1.7 gallons) and off-track penalties, we didn't score a single point in the endurance. This was quite disheartening considering we were one of what...40 teams...that finished the endurance?

[RiNaZ]

i remember you guys were at michigan in 05. Didnt know if you guys got your car running or not ... but you guys spared us some brake fluids. Thanks again for that.

[Austin B]

kapps...we were in the same boat. This is the first time we have had a car compete in, and finish all the dynamic events but we did not get any points due to time penalties and the fuel consumption. I think that they shoulkd modify the scoring scale so if you finish you at least get some points.

[kapps]

Originally posted by RiNaZ:
i remember you guys were at michigan in 05. Didnt know if you guys got your car running or not ... but you guys spared us some brake fluids. Thanks again for that.

Yeah, I think we made it to competition in '05 but I don't think we got it running. From what I've heard, we went without a tune on the engine and never got it together. What really disappoints me is that we scored higher last year (without even coming to the competition with a car) than what we did this year with a car that made it through everything.

[FATMOUSE]

Originally posted by kapps:
What really disappoints me is that we scored higher last year (without even coming to the competition with a car) than what we did this year with a car that made it through everything.

How did that happen?

[2BWise]

We had a bunch of team members taking pics and they finally all got posted to flickr. You can find them here: UC pics (http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=Bearcat%20Motorsports&w=all&s=int)

[kapps]

Originally posted by FATMOUSE:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kapps:
What really disappoints me is that we scored higher last year (without even coming to the competition with a car) than what we did this year with a car that made it through everything.

How did that happen? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A couple things. First, low scores in cost, design, etc. Last year, our team leader kept up with the paperwork. This year, he was busy building the car. Second, we had a wiring issue that manifested itself during the skidpad and auto-x. Our ecu would cut out (causing a very loud bang when it turned back on). It sounded like a lean spot in the tune so we were chasing it around until we finally found the loose wires. Luckily, we finally got it sorted for the endurance. Unfortunately, our dedicated member base is pretty small and sacrifices had to be made this year. At least we know what we have to do for next year.