Mitsu 14B Turbo Impressions

[Jay Fleming]

I'm wondering if anyone's ever used one of these turbos before and how it worked out for you. We're working with a tighter budget in this department than usual and I can get a perfect used turbo for free pretty much. We'd rather not have to go buy something else. Or if anyone can suggest a certain car's turbo that has worked well. Thanks.

Jay Fleming
University of Oklahoma

[Lyn Labahn UW-Madison]

Jay,

Am I assuming you are talking about a 14b from a mitsubishi eclipse/eagle talon? If so, it is WAY oversized for your application. Those things flow 200HP in stock configuration.

If you are on a tight budget, are you sure you are allocating your resources wisely by running a system, such as a turbo charger, that you could possibly run without? Seems like gravy to me....

[Jay Fleming]

Thanks for the reply Lyn. I know we could do without a turbo, but we have a guideline that we have to meet as far as our power goes. I don't know if I should be saying this, but in the past few years, the most output our team has gotten was 68 restricted HP. We're shootin for 75. I dont know if the designs in the past were just that bad, to where we can meet the goal naturally aspirated or not. We were kinda leaning towards a turbo because they're practically free HP if you can get a good deal on one. There's hardly any more work that needs to be accomplished in order to do it, in my opinion. The team is highly set on using a turbo, but we haven't made a final decision.

[Travis Garrison]

Jay,

Listen to Lyn, turbos come after you have everything else sorted out. Also, if you're just starting your turbo for this year, you're too late in my experience.

If you are absolutely dead set on doing the turbo why not call Garret? They will give you two turbos to play with...free of charge, plus they are roughly the correct size. Just keep a couple of quarts of oil handy http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-Travis Garrison
UW FSAE

[Kirk Feldkamp]

http://www.honeywell.com/sites/ts/tt/aboutus_formulaSAE3_CDI0ZNFDWBO3D691II515HA35YI7R8 TEP0813115031712_H6DXS7P6ESAJF3BSE4J8PXXH4AJS21MBZ 0813115213640.htm

-Kirk

[Charlie]

Hold on, Turbos are NOT free horsepower in the competition. You have the restrictor to deal with. This effectively limits your airflow and therefore your HP. I know Cornell runs a turbo and makes more HP than anyone. This is through good design and thier apparent ability to improve VE significantly at a low enough RPM.

For a turbo system to make good horsepower it has to be done very well and that requires a significant amount of development. If your team has been unable to extract a decent power level from NA setup they are not well equipped to make a turbo work unless something drastically has changed.

For a turbo to make more HP than NA with a restrictor means getting more low RPM power, perhaps around 8500. A 14B will add power at about 28,000 RPM http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

As an engine guy I hate to admit it but power is not a big deal at this competition. We put 51 to the wheels and finished 7th in autocross. We put 62 to the wheels last year and finished 4th in acceleration. Drivability and a good power curve are more important than peak power, and a turbo is unlikely to help either of those causes.

[Kirk Feldkamp]

Hey Charlie, what are you doing in Valencia now?

[James Waltman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jay Fleming:
There's hardly any more work that needs to be accomplished in order to do it, in my opinion. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It takes a substantial amount of time to get a turbo running. It took us several weeks to make the headers, intake, plumbing for oil, and plumbing for coolant. Although some might be easier than the GT12 and that's the only experience I have.

I do understand the appeal of a turbo. Our turbo development is continuing but as a side project. That means it will take even longer but it won't hurt the team if it doesn't work out. It's a new approach for us.

[jack]

i have driven one of our old cars with a "slightly to large" turbo on it. the turbo lag was so bad, that the car would have been much easier to drive (and therefore lower lap times), had it been NA. a car with a 3 second turbo lag will really be undrivable. just by two cents.

[Kirk Feldkamp]

3 seconds?! Now that is some lag!

-Kirk

[Eddie Martin]

Jay,

If you don't have the resources, human or financial, to do a turbo properly, i wouldn't do it. If you are aiming at the 2006 Competition you have a shot but i can't see its possible to get a system running for this May.

From the sound of it you need to put more of your resources into sponsorship and pr.

As Charlie said power is not everything. We won endurance in 03 with a power figure similar to yours. The car (suspension) was well set up, the drivers were experienced and the engine package was very driveable, efficient and well tested.

If i was you i'd be trying to get the car running as soon as you can and do as much productive testing as is possible.

That's just my two cents.

[Jay Fleming]

The team I'm on is for the 2006 car. I guess I should have said that earlier. This project is our senior design capstone, so we'll have to complete it by May anyways.

What exact Garrett are people using? Is there anyone specific to talk to if I did call them. I guess I'll have to show the rest of my team this post to see if they still wanna go with a turbo.

Thanks for the link Kirk, already bookmarked it.

Thanks for all the info.

[Marshall Grice]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Hey Charlie, what are you doing in Valencia now? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well there are only two things in valencia of interest. Magic Mountain and HPD. I sure hope Charlie didn't move to valencia to goto magic mountain everyday.