Formula SAE Italy 2011 Competition: - Updates, Pictures, Stories, and More

[Lorenzo Pessa]

Teams are going to reach Riccardo Paletti racetrack at Varano de' Melegari, in Italy.

Arriving from the highway you drive along a road inside the country crossing several groups of few houses.
Looking at your left you can see a river, looking at you right you can see a world racing car manufacturer as Dallara. You can easily understand you are very close to be arrived.

I will be there on Saturday.
I will give some update if I can.

[JR @ CFS]

Come on folks, where are the updates for the statics day? Any pictures of cars attending?

[Lorenzo Pessa]

Originally posted by JR @ A.M.I:
Come on folks, where are the updates for the statics day? Any pictures of cars attending?

static events are finished yesterday.

today a very cloudy day. some rainfalls.
everyone is struggling for afternoon autocross.

[Lorenzo Pessa]

heavy rain from 13 to 14.30. now stopped to rain. half of an hour to autocross.

some pics from E-Team Pisa.
h t t p s :/ /p icasaweb.google.com/117302026900273712110/2011ETkenVaranoDeMelegari

[JR @ CFS]

Hej guys,

It would be really great to get the overnight leaderboard posted. I only know that Chalmers and Graz are tied for the Acceleration win at 3.83s. It seems that FSUK wasn't a fluke.

[JR @ CFS]

http://www.varano.it/cgi-bin/W...e+Varano.Live+Timing (http://www.varano.it/cgi-bin/WebObjects/Varano.woa/wa/page?lan=ita&id=1150368&idHP=1095488&path=Varano.archivio+testi+prove+.Crono+Live+Varan o.Live+Timing)

Live timing of endurance...apparently.

[TMichaels]

KA-RaceIng have just posted the pre-Endurance Leader-Board at http://www.ka-raceing.de/index...=1&Itemid=27&lang=en (http://www.ka-raceing.de/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogsection&id=1&Itemid=27&lang=en) :
http://www.ka-raceing.de/images/stories/unbenannt.png

Could not really be closer.

Regards,

Tobias

[JR @ CFS]

1st - Karlsruhe 549pts
2nd - Stuttgart 544pts
3rd - Hamburg 538pts
4th - Torino 507pts
5th - Freiberg 479,1pts
6th - CFS 478,6pts
7th - Esslingen 463ts
8th - Roma 445pts
9th - UAS Graz 434pts
10th - UAS Karlsruhe 430pts
11th - TU Darmstadt 425pts
12th - TU Graz 401pts

[Fantomas]

Telling from the tweets the teams are not really satisfied with the performance of the marshals.
Using a fire extinguisher is not that hard...although one of the usually good performing marshals at FSG also took his time while the Braunschweig car was burning.

Fantomas

[racingX]

If you follow the twitter accounts of many FS teams, you'll get the picture that the situation at the Italy event is even worse than before regarding the security of the drivers and the cars.

I remember our car burning in 2009 like it was yesterday, the first marshall trotted over (no exaggeration) to our car roughly one minute after it erupted with flames, and the "fire truck" arrived even a minute later still. If another team wouldn't have had any extinguishers present, our 2009 car would only be a heap of ash now (there were no extinguishers from the organizers to be seen near the driver change area anyway).

But that is not all: the track marshalls were incapable of waving any flags during the competition, sometimes cars were waiting round after round to get a blue flag for the car in front of them, and the marhalls never waved any green flags for the overtaking areas. This, of course, resulted in many near-accidents because the drivers then decided on their own when they could leave the overtaking area.

This year: no extinguishers at the testing area (if you follow @DARTRacing on twitter), burning cars not getting extinguished soon enough (@TUWRacing), a completely dirty track (extinguisher powder and oil binding agent on many areas) is re-opened in the endurance (@KaRaTRacing, @Rennteam0711)... marshalls not waving any flags like in 2009... the list goes on.

Clearly, the situation in Italy has not improved. It is still life-threatening for any driver to compete in Varano. And this is an official FSAE event? Seriously?

[Fantomas]

I remember our car burning in 2009 like it was yesterday, the first marshall trotted over (no exaggeration) to our car roughly one minute after it erupted with flames, and the "fire truck" arrived even a minute later still. If another team wouldn't have had any extinguishers present, our 2009 car would only be a heap of ash now (there were no extinguishers from the organizers to be seen near the driver change area anyway).
But why is your team then still competing there?

This year: no extinguishers at the testing area (if you follow @DARTRacing on twitter), burning cars not getting extinguished soon enough (@TUWRacing), a completely dirty track (extinguisher powder and oil binding agent on many areas) is re-opened in the endurance (@KaRaTRacing, @Rennteam0711)... marshalls not waving any flags like in 2009... the list goes on.
Could the teams taking part not form a front at the event and say: We will not compete under these conditions? Clear the track properly before restarting the endurance!

Clearly, the situation in Italy has not improved. It is still life-threatening for any driver to compete in Varano. And this is an official FSAE event? Seriously?
To become an official FSAE event you only need to pay licensing money to the FSAE. As far as I know only FSG refused to pay, but has become official because their influence on the scene was just too big to not make them an official event.
If you have ever been to Michigan, you will get to know that being an official FSAE event is not necessearily a seal of quality...some of the non-official events like Austria and Hungary are organized way better than some of the official events. It does not make a difference for the students whether an event is "official" or not. FSG for example was an unofficial event until 2010!

Fantomas

[racingX]

But why is your team then still competing there?

It was not my decision to make last year.. I would not have gone to Italy. I can understand the decision though, in 2009 it was a very fast track (perfect for our car) and you'll need the points for the world ranking.


Could the teams taking part not form a front at the event and say: We will not compete under these conditions? Clear the track properly before restarting the endurance!

It's difficult, there are only 2-3 teams with 2-3 team members each at the starting line, under huge stress, you'll maybe get disqualified for it and you have to explain that to the rest of your team... it is a bit much to ask for.


some of the non-official events like Austria and Hungary are way better than the official events.
This is definitly the case, however, is there no way to revoke the license on the grounds that the organizers seem to be, well, a bit insane?

[Fantomas]

It's difficult, there are only 2-3 teams with 2-3 team members each at the starting line, under huge stress, you'll maybe get disqualified for it and you have to explain that to the rest of your team... it is a bit much to ask for.
Yes, this is true. Especially if you cannot be sure that all teams act in the same way.


This is definitly the case, however, is there no way to revoke the license on the grounds that the organizers seem to be, well, a bit insane?
I don't know, probably SAE needs the money?

Fantomas

[racingX]

Current endurance track conditions:

https://twitpic.com/6geo4f
https://yfrog.com/z/gzkhezrj

[Fantomas]

Telling from all the fires reported via twitter (I counted 5 so far) the Scrutineers must not have looked at the cars thoroughly...

Fantomas

[Fantomas]

Endurance is over. I bet on Stuttgart.

Fantomas

[Michael Royce]

Fantomas,
Let me put the record straight on one of your fallacies. Although I do not know the precise details of the MOU that the various event organizers sign with the SAE, I do know that they pay the SAE no money, absolutely zero!

I also know that the entry fees paid by the teams, even with the increased fees in the USA, come nowhere close to covering the costs of the events. The one exception just might be the Australian event with its recent fee hike.

You also have a very negative view of the Michigan event. Having been very involved with it from 1986 until 2009, I know the people running it extremely well, and can assure you that they are very experienced people, a combination of SCCA personnel, people from the auto industry and FSAE alums. After every event, there is a detailed review of what went right and what went wrong, with the objective of making the following year's event even better. If you have any pertinent observations and suggestion, please send them in to Steve Daum and Kaley Zundel at SAE. They will be more than happy to consider them.

Of course, it would help if we knew who you were and what university you represent, or represented.

[Fantomas]

Originally posted by Michael Royce:
Fantomas,
Let me put the record straight on one of your fallacies. Although I do not know the precise details of the MOU that the various event organizers sign with the SAE, I do know that they pay the SAE no money, absolutely zero
I know from a very trustworthy source that this is not the case. At least the respective events accept to pay for the travel expenses of SAE officials visiting the event. Which I would call paying for it.
I also see no other reasons why Austria and Hungary are currently not an official event and why


I also know that the entry fees paid by the teams, even with the increased fees in the USA, come nowhere close to covering the costs of the events. The one exception just might be the Australian event with its recent fee hike.

I have never said anything different.


You also have a very negative view of the Michigan event. Having been very involved with it from 1986 until 2009, I know the people running it extremely well, and can assure you that they are very experienced people, a combination of SCCA personnel, people from the auto industry and FSAE alums. After every event, there is a detailed review of what went right and what went wrong, with the objective of making the following year's event even better. If you have any pertinent observations and suggestion, please send them in to Steve Daum and Kaley Zundel at SAE. They will be more than happy to consider them.
I would not say that my view is very negative, but there are some things which could easily be improved, but are not up to now.
I do also not question that the organizers are not very experienced, but it seems sometimes that they think there is nothing left to be improved or that it is just not worth it.
There are a lot of low hanging fruits out there:
Live-Timing, Live-Video-Streaming, Timekeeping Displays, well briefed marshals which are able to count laps properly, fast results, Scrutineering Queue order, Pits for the teams, etc. etc.

I gave several times feedback in a very polite manner, but nothing changed which I consider being disrespectful.
It is in my opinion time for a change: Events organized by former participants are run well and are run for the students, because the organizers really know what counts. Events run by people which have never taken part often lack respect for the student's work.
Find one team which does not second that opinion.

General feedback although this is the italian competition's thread:
Get up to the pace of the european events driven by former participants e.g. Austria, Hungary, Germany. If in doubt, just copy them, works well.

Talking about Michigan specific feedback:
The endurance track was not rules compliant.
The running order with the slowest teams running together with the fastest team in Autocross was a bad joke.
Timekeeping issues at Acceleration, but the teams were not properly informed and therefore lost runs, even if they were able to prove their driven times with recorded video footage.
Incompetent or very slow acting track marshals.
No timekeeping display in endurance.
Basically no WLAN coverage (you might think that does not matter, but being a team this really matters!)
Final results took forever during the award ceremony. Teams had to wait three hours in a cold tent and a lot of them left, before the ceremony really started due to this.
Scrutineers which seemed to have never read the rules, maybe only a few, but it remains frustrating nevertheless.

In general read what the teams are posting / tweeting and you have very valuable feedback for free and immediately.

Fantomas

[Lorenzo Pessa]

here I am. what I report here are my personal opinions.
I left the circuit at 1pm so I don't know what happened after.

the filler on the endurance track is mainly from Pisa.

First of all: autocross. when the results will be published you will notice a lot of cones and off course.
Why? because the organizers changed the entering side of a slalom between course walk and autocross and positioned badly the cones in a corner down there (it was not clear where to go).

today many troubles with flags. expecially yellow flags given in a wrong way (or not given at all).
the track layout was stupid: three hairpins in sequence, three times you need to get your steering to the end in a rapid sequence to make that corners.
University of Transilvania and University of Firenze got black flag because they where unable to make that corners.
our pilot (a very skilled guy) reported that after three laps he was really fatigued.
then at three laps to the end of first stint something get broken on our car. it starting to loose fluids.
no one of the marshalls notice that thing.
the car run for other two laps with smoke coming out from the rear. from the tribune we notice it in the last lap and try to call the driver (he was equipped with a mobile connection). at the half of the lap the car got fire. the car run in front of three marshall places and no one notice the fire.
near the end line they try to stop him using yellow flags, then he stopped in front of chequered flag. in that moment our faculty advisor succeed to call him. the driver understand the car was on fire from our faculty advisor. no appropriate signals from marshalls.
the red flag was not immediatly exposed.
the track then was full of oil.

We are happy he don't get injured. I'm really angry he risk a lot.

I add the marshalls don't have communication devices. This problem was raised in the last years but the organizers don't fix it.

I don't know what happened after because I left the circuit.

[Lorenzo Pessa]

you can find some pics from ATA here.

http://www.facebook.com/media/....215266444708&type=1 (http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150301450099709.358696.215266444708&type=1)

[Jan_Dressler]

Originally posted by Lorenzo Pessa:
First of all: autocross. when the results will be published you will notice a lot of cones and off course.
Why? because the organizers changed the entering side of a slalom between course walk and autocross and positioned badly the cones in a corner down there (it was not clear where to go).
They also seemed to have a little problem with assigning the # of cones and the laptimes to the correct run (or even driver). Happened to us seemingly, and at least one other team.

[Luniz]

Hi guys... I can say that I pretty much second the opinions of fantomas and lorenzo. I came to the event just to spectate (my team wasn't registered) and I expected chaos. My expectations have been clearly succeeded!

[Bemo]

Normally I'm not the one complaining about organisation of the events around here as I appreciate the effort by the people who make all this possible.

But in this case it is a bit different. I took part at FSAE-I as a team member in 08 and 09 and was there as a visitor last year. During these three events nobody got seriously injured. But that is more or less coincidence.

In 08 they had the track set up in a way that if you missed one particular bus stop you would have crashed into a wall. They changed it after several drivers insisted on a change.
Behind the acceleration track there were a couple of meters left then there were some cones and that was the end of the dynamic area were people were walking around. One of our drivers back then didn't manage to brake early enough because he didn't get the checkered flag and wasn't sure, when he crossed the finish line. It was pure luck he didn't hit anyone.

In 09 they didn't have any fire extinguishers in the driver change area when the Darmstadt car catched fire. Some other teams had to help out there.

I don't know what's wrong with the track marshalls there. Most of them just don't pay any attention to what's happening around them. Very often cars have to stay several laps behind a slower car because they just don't show the blue flag. In case of an emergency it takes ages until there is any reaction and then the reaction is usually wrong.

SAE should have a close look what events they are giving their name for. I really appreciate that there are also in Italy people who are willing to organise an event in there free time. But it is only a matter of time that someone gets seriously injured if the event continues to be run like this.

[Lorenzo Pessa]

I would add more.

The test area in 2009 (the first year in Varano) and 2010 where on an small elevated area. It was really dangerous, it was signalled at the end of 2009 event but nothing was done for 2010.
In 2010 one (or two?) car fall down from the elevation.
For 2011 the test area was moved down to the pit level and this is great. The problem is they used simple crowd control barriers instead of plastic crush barriers.

here you can see it from a cameracar by Karlsruhe (@47s) h t t p :/ /w ww.youtube.com/watch?v=TDjUwwLH_Bs

Instead the engine area was sorrounded by... nothing!

From 2009 the event is improved a lot in aspects like communication. Surely not in safety.