Best Engine

[Urvina]

What, in your opinion, in the best engine to use for the comp and why?

[kwancho]

Well, if popularity has anything to do with it, the F4i would win. But that's not a very good reason for the design judges to hear.

[RickyRacer]

That is a broad question. The answer would depend alot on your initial design concpets. A single cylinder engine would be ideal for an extremely light weight car, yet a 600CC four cylinder would be ideal if you are building a car with more torque for accelerating out of the corners. In each of those 2 cases there are several engines with similarities and differences that might be more suitable for your car. Aside from all of that, I like the Honda 600 4Fi because of everything being available, such as parts, drawings and even more important, there are so many of them at the competition, that if something were to break, chances are good that another team might be able to help you out.
Good Luck
Rick Torres
Long Beach State Motorsports

[Alexandre D.]

First of all there's no such thing like a best engine. There is an engine that suits best a car. It depends of what you want. Big and heavy, small and light. There is team like RMIT that goes really light with a small 1 cylinder, team like Cornell that goes heavy and big with turbo 4 and team like us that goes turbo 4 with a way too heavy car. Cornell wining every year doesn't mean that all team should go with turbo 600cc. It's all about integrating everything together the right way, including the engine.

What is the best FSAE engine? It can be anything, as long as the final result is fast and cross the finish line first. If you know exactly what you are looking for, how much time, money and risk you want to invest for that need, maybe we can help you in finding the best engine.

Do you need the best engine? A lot of teams choose more "exotic" engines. It was great for a year or two. Then they had to change it. A different engine means much more than rebuilding engine mounts. Best engine doesn't always mean best for the team. Some teams choose to go for super designed car with really advanced part. Most of the time, the car is too complex to perform well. It's a choice you must make: Settle down for more conservative designs or go with rocket science.

I can't say it enough, a broken car never wins. A lot of teams had less common engines at Detroit. God they were fast. For a day or two, I asked myself if we were going in the right way with our engine development... half of these teams didn't finish endurance race.

A gold rule when you choose your engine is: Can you afford buying 3 of them at the beginning, and 2 new ones every year for the next 5-7 years? Can you find them easily or you can't even spell the name of the manufacturing town? Most likely you won't need that much engines, but shit happens, all the time. Mainstream 600ccs go for less than 1k$ and are "easy"� to find.

[VFR750R]

http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/4006096252/p/1

Thread on the 4 vs 1 topic from earlier this year.

[jack]

well to answer this question, all you have to do is go look at the best FSAE car right? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Jersey Tom]

Just put a 427 in there.

[VFR750R]

Ford or Chevy?

[Urvina]

well im pretty sure that we are going with the Honda CBR, we're taking a vote on it next week.

Im know we can get the most out of it with our own work

Erin

[Cement Legs]

Originally posted by jack:
well to answer this question, all you have to do is go look at the best FSAE car right? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Yeah but we havent unveiled the Red Bruiser yet.... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

[DaveC]

Ford or Chevy?

You dropped the F - Bomb http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

As for FSAE, I'd look for higher stroke and cr #s...

[Jreyenga]

I'm stunned no one has mention http://www.maxsym.com/

The above is why I'm a big fan of production based engines. 60lbs with tranny and just as much power as the 4 bangers... too bad it costs about 12k, but cost be damned it's clearly the best engine

[osubeaver]

Originally posted by Jreyenga:
I'm stunned no one has mention http://www.maxsym.com/

The above is why I'm a big fan of production based engines. 60lbs with tranny and just as much power as the 4 bangers... too bad it costs about 12k, but cost be damned it's clearly the best engine

Yeah that thing is badass, but so expensive. I bet they'de be way cool about providing a cad model of it too, unlike f*&king Kawasaki.

[Chris Davin]

Originally posted by Jreyenga:
I'm stunned no one has mention http://www.maxsym.com/

The above is why I'm a big fan of production based engines. 60lbs with tranny and just as much power as the 4 bangers... too bad it costs about 12k, but cost be damned it's clearly the best engine

I disagree. I met those guys in Indianapolis and their engine looks great. But, it's a two-cylinder and will not be able to make the same power as a four-cylinder in a Formula SAE car. Of course, many might still see it as the best compromise of weight and power, but the choice is far from obvious.

[Alexandre D.]

Originally posted by Jreyenga:
I'm stunned no one has mention http://www.maxsym.com/

The above is why I'm a big fan of production based engines. 60lbs with tranny and just as much power as the 4 bangers... too bad it costs about 12k, but cost be damned it's clearly the best engine

Considering that a lot of teams run with less than 30k, spending 24k on 2 maxsym engine is not what I would call "best".

[osubeaver]

Originally posted by Chris Davin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jreyenga:
I'm stunned no one has mention http://www.maxsym.com/

The above is why I'm a big fan of production based engines. 60lbs with tranny and just as much power as the 4 bangers... too bad it costs about 12k, but cost be damned it's clearly the best engine

I disagree. I met those guys in Indianapolis and their engine looks great. But, it's a two-cylinder and will not be able to make the same power as a four-cylinder in a Formula SAE car. Of course, many might still see it as the best compromise of weight and power, but the choice is far from obvious. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

..which brings about the 4 cyl vs single or twin debate.

[TG]

You can see from the maxsym engines that their power and torque curves (http://www.maxsym.com/gp500-600/documents/Powercurves.pdf) are farily peaky. I've seen torque curves for many 4 cylinders posted on this forum be much flatter (meaning a more "drivable" car). Just an observation.

I also was talking to a guy who competed a few years ago. He said he overheard a conversation between Carroll Smith and Paul Van Valkenburgh where they agreed that the torque of the larger singles was too peaky, especially for the lightweight FSAE cars.

[osubeaver]

I guess its pretty subjective but IMO those torque curves look pretty decent. The 500 has a bit of a torque dip at 10k. Those graphs are pretty squashed and lo-res though so its kinda hard to see the details.

[VFR750R]

Well, when has stock hp had anything to do with HP modified for FSAE use. I don't think anyone here will say their HP curve looks like a stock one.
It is a pretty neat twin but I think they could have done a better job for a 'race' engine. The overall concept is good, but something is lacking.
I've said it here before, 3 cylinders...maybe layed over at an angle with transaxle. Turbo low on the other side. Damn.

[Bryan Hagenauer]

I wonder if anyone is going to try to sleeve/destroke this thing

06 Triumph 675 Triple (http://www.triumph.co.uk/usa/2678.aspx)

[osubeaver]

Originally posted by Bryan Hagenauer:
I wonder if anyone is going to try to sleeve/destroke this thing

06 Triumph 675 Triple (http://www.triumph.co.uk/usa/2678.aspx)

Hmmmmm http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

[MikeDutsa]

we are making just as much power as that unrestricted 600 twin is bosting on a choked f4i, with a much flatter, longer torque curve. My vote goes to the simplicity of a well tuned N/A 4 banger.

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

Originally posted by DaveC:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Ford or Chevy?

You dropped the F - Bomb http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

As for FSAE, I'd look for higher stroke and cr #s... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I vote for a GM LS7, great power (500hp) and good gas milage (26 MPG HWY in the Corvette)...eat that Viper 9mpg lovers

[PatClarke]

http://popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/articles/che...ock/0305em_turbo_bb/ (http://popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/articles/chevrolet/bigblock/0305em_turbo_bb/)

http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Pat

[Chris Boyden]

Posted May 09, 2006 03:36 AM
http://popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/articles/che...ock/0305em_turbo_bb/

Uh.....wow...now that's forced induction.

[Homemade WRX]

Originally posted by Suddenlee:
http://popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/articles/che...ock/0305em_turbo_bb/ (http://popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/articles/chevrolet/bigblock/0305em_turbo_bb/)

http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Pat
where's the torque?...in comparison to the hp they put down...

[Chris Allbee]

its in your standard equation relating torque to horsepower and RPM.

[Dr Claw]

I've said it here before, 3 cylinders...maybe layed over at an angle with transaxle. Turbo low on the other side. Damn.

What about the Mahle 3 cylander engine? I remember seeing it from a few years ago but forget the details. what was the story on that engine again? Was it a custom race engine for a team in germany, or was/is it a regular manufactured product?

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

Originally posted by Dr Claw:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I've said it here before, 3 cylinders...maybe layed over at an angle with transaxle. Turbo low on the other side. Damn.

What about the Mahle 3 cylander engine? I remember seeing it from a few years ago but forget the details. what was the story on that engine again? Was it a custom race engine for a team in germany, or was/is it a regular manufactured product? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ya, if I recally it was like 609ccs and designed around the restrictor, why did that one team get it and noone else touched it?

[Dr Claw]

http://www.looksmartsuvs.com/p/articles/mi_m3012/is_5_184/ai_n6046328

there's an article on it. Aachen was the university that used it - they have a partnership with Mahle. Interesting though, there is supposedly a 2nd gen with a variable runner length intake in the wroks.

[Ben Inkster]

http://www.looksmartsuvs.com/p/articles/mi_m3012/is_5_184/ai_n6046328

there's an article on it. Aachen was the university that used it - they have a partnership with Mahle. Interesting though, there is supposedly a 2nd gen with a variable runner length intake in the wroks.

Is this engine really going ahead, can anyone from Aachen comment? The last time it was brought up in the forums was 2003. It seems a little contraversial to me, a very large automotive supplier developing an engine for an FSAE team and the second generation will feature a variable intake! this should at least remain in domain of student design. Are they going to sell the engine to other teams I wonder?

-Ben

[KevinD]

although i can't say anything about the 3 cylinder mahle engine... heres the turbo 250 http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/homerdoh56/F06/?ac...current=f06dyno1.flv (http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/homerdoh56/F06/?action=view&current=f06dyno1.flv)
http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/homerdoh56/F06/?ac...current=f06dyno2.flv (http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/homerdoh56/F06/?action=view&current=f06dyno2.flv)

the later run we made the mistake of running it to tall a gear and got some pretty bad clutch slip.

gotta love the 19,000 rpm rev limit though, just when you think it is going to stop it keeps going http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

Originally posted by KevinD:
although i can't say anything about the 3 cylinder mahle engine... heres the turbo 250 http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/homerdoh56/F06/?ac...current=f06dyno1.flv (http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/homerdoh56/F06/?action=view&current=f06dyno1.flv)
http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/homerdoh56/F06/?ac...current=f06dyno2.flv (http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/homerdoh56/F06/?action=view&current=f06dyno2.flv)

the later run we made the mistake of running it to tall a gear and got some pretty bad clutch slip.

gotta love the 19,000 rpm rev limit though, just when you think it is going to stop it keeps going http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

crap! what engine and what power you making?

[absolutepressure]

Don't be tempted Duwe, I prefer the one with over double the displacement, myself.

http://www.odumotorsports.com/video/2005%20ODU%20FSAE%20-%20Dyno.wmv

Once the VTAK kicks in, there's nothing in the world that can hold it back.

[KevinD]

Originally posted by drivetrainUW-Platt:
crap! what engine and what power you making?

honda CBR 250RR we started a 60hp, we tuned it to 71 until the clutch started slipping bad. right now the engine we dynoed with has horrible blow by and low compression numbers, due to being a pretty old engine. we are putting in a fresh engine this week and should see significant gains. additionally we were running out of fuel up top so it is significantly lean from where we want it. that problem is also being taken care of. once we get that sorted out, we'll turn up the boost a bit more and should see 80's.

not bad for a 250 cc engine http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif did i mention it is MUCH smaller and significantly lighter then the 600s?

[absolutepressure]

That thing got a turbo? I didn't know that.

I'm guessin like, what, a T88?

[Sam Zimmerman]

http://dot.etec.wwu.edu/fsae/v30/image008.jpg

No contest.

[absolutepressure]

Aren't you the guys who forgot engine mounts? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[John_Burford]

KevinD

Has the cbr f1 600cc and cbr 250cc rr hybrid clutch basket been resurrected to solve clutch slip. Or are you happy with stiff springs?

John Burford

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

Originally posted by KevinD:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by drivetrainUW-Platt:
crap! what engine and what power you making?

honda CBR 250RR we started a 60hp, we tuned it to 71 until the clutch started slipping bad. right now the engine we dynoed with has horrible blow by and low compression numbers, due to being a pretty old engine. we are putting in a fresh engine this week and should see significant gains. additionally we were running out of fuel up top so it is significantly lean from where we want it. that problem is also being taken care of. once we get that sorted out, we'll turn up the boost a bit more and should see 80's.

not bad for a 250 cc engine http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif did i mention it is MUCH smaller and significantly lighter then the 600s? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

balls, it was def blowin some smoke when you let off, good to hear a new unthrashed engine is in the works..uta needs to put pictures on there website, as far as I know there is only one per year....

[KevinD]

..uta needs to put pictures on there website, as far as I know there is only one per year....

tell Dr. Woods that!!!! he didn't agree with me when i asked to have team member access so we could update the page, add pictures, team member profiles, and just make it look like a decent page. to late now though for him to change his mind. the new guys willing to update the page don't show up anymore.

[KevinD]

Originally posted by John_Burford:
KevinD

Has the cbr f1 600cc and cbr 250cc rr hybrid clutch basket been resurrected to solve clutch slip. Or are you happy with stiff springs?

John Burford

we modify the 250 clutch basket to hold the 600 springs. and we have no problems with the clutch lever being to stiff. motion ratios take care of that.

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

Originally posted by KevinD:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
..uta needs to put pictures on there website, as far as I know there is only one per year....

tell Dr. Woods that!!!! he didn't agree with me when i asked to have team member access so we could update the page, add pictures, team member profiles, and just make it look like a decent page. to late now though for him to change his mind. the new guys willing to update the page don't show up anymore. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

just link them to an external source like photobucket.com or yahoo images or something, that way you just pass the password around and anyone can post up pictures

[Tim H. Heinemann]

Is this engine really going ahead, can anyone from Aachen comment?

I'm no longer an active member of the Aachen team so I'm not going to comment on current things going on with this engine. You can however ask them in person as they are currently on their way to Detroit. The Team name is "Ecurie Aix", dark blue polos and caps with white embroidered team logos showing the team name, a car silhouette and a chequered flag; the car is white and blue and sports nr. 42 (the answer to life, the universe an everything....;-)

Homepage: http://www.ecurie-aix.de

Sorry, only in German, don't ask me why...;-)


The last time it was brought up in the forums was 2003. It seems a little contraversial to me, a very large automotive supplier developing an engine for an FSAE team and the second generation will feature a variable intake!

My comments from that 2003 discussion still are available and nothing has changed since then. The engine is a very nice little thing but in no way an unfair advantage over the Big Four's race proven designs. Actually there is a big disadvantge and that is the fact that Mahle does not supply a gearbox and there simply is no one available of the shelf. Our team has done a lot of work on a very special Cone-Ring-Gearbox and the result can be seen in Detroit, B'thorpe and Hockenheim. IMHO the drive train is still not as bullet-proof as it should be so I'm very curious were the car will place itself in the upcoming competitions.


this should at least remain in domain of student design.

I can assure you that the inlet and exhaust system has been designed by students, as well as the water cooling, fuel supply etc.



Are they going to sell the engine to other teams I wonder?


AFAIK Mahle would prefer to supply more than one team and the Aachen team would definetly welcome such a move because we're pretty tired of getting the flak for this engine allone. Actually I know that at least one team turned the offer down because the see what kind of work it is do design your own gearbox. It is not simply plugging a set of mc gearbox internals into a mchined housing. Mahle guys will definetly be present at the Detroit competition, just go to the Aachen team and ask them about the engine. The topic has porbably not been brought up recently within the team but in my days it was common understanding that a further team with the Mahle engine would be a benefit for us as well. Recently there was a very negative comment from a professor of another German team - a newly founded one who have not yet participated - during a roll-out speech in front of a lot of people and the press and it displayed and annoying degree of misinterpretations and false comments and we're definetly sick of this. FSAE is definetly not an engine contest which is obvious from the number of engine concepts winning the comps over the last years and thus the Mahle engine does not offer an unfair advantage. We don't have herds of Mahle engineers playing with our car, it is still mostly student designed - in terms of the drive train we did design and build probably more than many other teams.

Regarding Mahle I don't know whether they hae plans to make a production run of the engine but at the moment far too few are in existence to supply more than two teams. However the newly founded team of Stuttgart uni is also sponsered by Mahle although they don't run the engine, maybe they are the second team, I don't know yet.

Just my EUR 0.02,



Tim

[Tim H. Heinemann]

Originally posted by drivetrainUW-Platt:
ya, if I recally it was like 609ccs and designed around the restrictor,


The gas exchange was designed by students, including working on the cams. It would be the same effect as having a sponsor machining redesigned camshafts for any HoYaSuKa engine which has AFAIK happend before.



why did that one team get it


Because Mahle has strong links with our uni and it was clear that for a start they wanted to supply only one team because of costs etc. It still is a prototype engine and when the project started in 2001 Mahle had to choose from Aachen and Stralsund because at that time no other teams were known in Germany. Stralsund is a small uni of applied sciences, Aachen is the technical uni in Germany which has the biggest mechanical engineering faculty so it was more or less a natural fact that we were the first adress for Mahle. And contrary to what common gossip sometimes states: Mahle had the idea and was looking for a partner, it was not Aachen who approached Mahle "to have an engine designed to their needs" as I recently had to read in a comment from another German team. We're glad we got this opportunety and the project really is a very fine experience but there is no reason to be envious because of this engine. It's in actual fact a different route to the same goal, not a shortcut.



and noone else touched it?


AFAIK some teams were offered the opportunety to "touch" it and refused because of the gearbox problem. When asking him whether he'd like to have this engine in B'thorpe two years ago I got exactly this comment from Prof. Rossmanek of Stralsund.



Tim

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

thanks for the long answers.
We are looking for a new engine, what does the 3 cylinder weigh? I am ooposed to cutting the transmission off a stock bike engine and putting a belt cvt in its place, but I'm not opposed to putting one on an engine that has no tranny, I drove out clean snowmobiles sled, around 110hp with tune-able cvt clutches, that thing almost threw you off the seat....

[Marshall Grice]

I drove out clean snowmobiles sled, around 110hp with tune-able cvt clutches, that thing almost threw you off the seat....
aww wtf? clean snowmobile has 110hp engines! i'm on the wrong project.

[Bill Kunst]

What you have to understand about the UW-Platteville clean snowmobile is that it is a hotrodded two stroke with a catalytic converter. The cat doesn't last long, and things get awful hot, but when it comes to not the cleanest mega hp for the competition, it kicks some butt. Everyone else is putting four stroke whatchamacallits in there's, and sacraficing power. The guys in P-ville refuse to do it, so 110hp and 1400 degree exhaust is the norm.

[Tim H. Heinemann]

We are looking for a new engine,


Then go ahead, ask Mahle, but be warned that this is not buying a used mass manufacture engine about which the manufacturer does not really care after is been sold (or sponsered). This is more of a cooperation type of sponsoring and from experience I can tell that this even difficult with only 300 miles between Aachen and Stuttgart. Mahle obviously has an interest in how the engine is handled which any team using it would have to respect naturally. There are replacement engines and spare parts off course but it is not as easy as getting one from the breaker and any kind of modification has to be discussed with Mahle in detail. It's their baby and they want it to look good so they care a lot of who does what with it. This has pros and cons, once again: It's a completely different approach, just be aware of this. However in terms of a learning experience it's a very good project because it teaches all participant how to deal with industrial partners.



what does the 3 cylinder weigh?


The car and team have arrived in Detroit so just drop by, have a look at it and ask them.



Tim

[Ben Inkster]

Hi Tim,
sorry for the cynicism in my post before, I think that the PR spin on the article about the engine exagerated Mahle's influence on the team. It sounds like a huge amount of work compared to a stock motorbike engine, and an engine without a gearbox is a huge undertaking for any team!

I can understand your frustration with people questioning the engine, coming from UWA we often recieved similar sentiment about the kinetic suspension system when it is actually completely designed and built by students.

Unfortunatly I won't be in Detroit for this years comp so I can't come by and see the car, instead I'll be stuck at my desk in Melbourne http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Do you know if the team will be pursuing a variable intake?

Cheers
-Ben

[Matthias Thewes]

Do you know if the team will be pursuing a variable intake?

As an active member of the Aachen team I can assure that we will not be running a variable intake system.

Matthias

[Tim H. Heinemann]

sorry for the cynicism in my post before, I think that the PR spin on the article about the engine exagerated Mahle's influence on the team.

I can assure you that we're not a bunch of Mahle deputies and Mahle doesn't want us to be. A paramount of this project is to handle who does what - Mahle or the Ecurie - and does it comply to the rules, that's why I stress that everything except the bare engine is student designed. Mahle is interested in this as well because there is no point in cheating. The judges aren't stupid and the last thing Mahle or us need is a disqualification. This has allready been brought up occasionally. We had a long chat with Pat Clarke at FStudent in 2004 about some judges' reactions to our car. Some like our approach, some don't.


It sounds like a huge amount of work compared to a stock motorbike engine, and an engine without a gearbox is a huge undertaking for any team!

It definetly is and I don't think that it is a better or easier way of winning FSAE than a Honda-powered space frame. IMHO both variants are well inside the idea of FSAE, it depends on what you're interested in and what your uni supports.



Unfortunatly I won't be in Detroit for this years comp so I can't come by and see the car, instead I'll be stuck at my desk in Melbourne http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

They are going to do the Detroit and all three European events however I'm not sure whether they have any plans to go to FSAE-A, it's just so expensive and the car allready had to be flown to Detroit. Mahle has some buisness in Australia so if the car and the engine are doing considerably well in the four upcoming events (USA, GB, D, I) maybe they'll find some cash to get the team there as well.


Do you know if the team will be pursuing a variable intake?

I know there is work done currently on the intake system but I don't know whether it is a variable intake. As I said before I'm not an active member anymore so I'll leave it to the current team to comment this in detail. Don't expect an answer to soon, they're quite busy in the US at the moment, unsurprisingly.



Tim

[Dr Claw]

Seems like the Aachen guys are catching a lot of crap for a volunteer partnership that isnt too exclusive by any means.

Funny how a school gets lambasted for an engine, but teams with F1 tuning ties, or exclusive tire contracts don't catch much heat.. *shrug*

At any rate, im excited to see this 3 cylander this year http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[VFR750R]

Originally posted by Dr Claw:
Seems like the Aachen guys are catching a lot of crap for a volunteer partnership that isnt too exclusive by any means.

Funny how a school gets lambasted for an engine, but teams with F1 tuning ties, or exclusive tire contracts don't catch much heat.. *shrug*

At any rate, im excited to see this 3 cylander this year http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I'd agree, I'm jealous as shit that Aachen gets this type of cooperation and attention from a renouned engine parts supplier but, we all remember that engines are 4th on the list to going fast, and in FSAE it's a distant 4th on all but the acceleration (an event worth 75pts) event. There are several other postings on this site on getting the most from your engine selection, and that is way more important then what brand and config....which can't be said of tires.

[Dr Claw]

Holy shit! the Aachen car and team stoped by our campus today (a day before competition) to shake down their car in our parking lot. I'd have to say it's an impressive little engine and trans package. Put a turbo and a gear box instead of a CVT and it'd be lethal. maybe production ready castings too, it looks like they came off of RP'd moulds :P.

MOST IMPORTANTLY the Southfield police came out and spoiled the party. The guys from Aachen were carted off on customs issues and driving at a constant RPM (http://community.webshots.com/photo/548106081/2934317200074791088ggIDRd). Poor guys, they seemed really cool too. we were talking up until they were stuffed in the back of the Police Tahoe..

[Tim H. Heinemann]

MOST IMPORTANTLY the Southfield police came out and spoiled the party. The guys from Aachen were carted off on customs issues and driving at a constant RPM (http://community.webshots.com/photo/548106081/2934317200074791088ggIDRd). Poor guys, they seemed really cool too. we were talking up until they were stuffed in the back of the Police Tahoe..

That's why they were so cryptic in their diary they send to our team mailing list on this shake-down-thing. Appearently they did not have to spend the night in jail and the car is back at the Mahle premises as some pics in their update suggest.....;-)

Good luck to all teams at comp!


Tim

[Tim H. Heinemann]

Originally posted by Dr Claw:
Holy shit! the Aachen car and team stoped by our campus today (a day before competition) to shake down their car in our parking lot.

I just got a mail from one of our guys, he did not tell too much about their encounter with Southfield's law enforcement representatives except that it was "funny". Aha.

However he asked me to say thanks to DrClaw and the others at Southfield for their hospitality!


Tim

[CatAndDog]

In FSGermany there was another team with the Mahle engine. It was "Black Forest Formula Team" from Offenburg.

There is no information on their homepage concerning the engine or drivetrain.

http://fh-offenburg.de/bfft/

I was very surprise to see it - with an "ITC Engineering" instead of the Mahle logo on it!! Who is ITC? Why do they have this engine?

http://www.itcompact.de/

I have heard that for 2007 there will be 3 more teams with the 3 cylinder.

[Dr Claw]

LTU was a candidate...but we turned it down for some reason :X

politics politics politics.

[Homemade WRX]

Originally posted by Chris Allbee:
its in your standard equation relating torque to horsepower and RPM.
yes, I know it was sarcasm...it is holding so steady and linear in growth mostly because they aren't increasing pressure from the turbo...torque is flat and hp increases linearly....I know, just was figuring they would have it so that the torque wasn't so linear but would come on latent and run more pounds pushing max torque higher in the power band with peak hp...all being where a drag car sits in the power band, up top http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Homemade WRX]

Originally posted by absolutepressure:
Don't be tempted Duwe, I prefer the one with over double the displacement, myself.

http://www.odumotorsports.com/video/2005%20ODU%20FSAE%20-%20Dyno.wmv

Once the VTAK kicks in, there's nothing in the world that can hold it back.
ROFL....that was an exciting moment as I held the camcorder...

I'm still trying to get a few 250's to turbocharge

[Nima]

I found one more but in two stroke class...
it is 90 horsepower and 500cc with 35 kg weight.
http://www.2si.com/images/Sport%208.gif
www.2si.com (http://www.2si.com)
at all there is two high speed engine with near 90 horsepower I have found... (2si & maxsym)

there is one more in Ford Power Products with 70Hp@6250rpm, 90 kg weight and 1000cc displacement... Click Here! (http://www.fordpowerproducts.com/FordPowerProducts/EORGEM.htm)

I really want to find the all engine mass products in the europe with same horsepower and less than 1000cc displacement 2stroke or 4stroke.
I have searched the internet a lot but couldn't find any more...

Can anyone help with this?

thanks

[pengulns2001]

you guys should definatly go with a 2-stroke, fuel economy would be a little worse but its so much simpler and lighter especially for a new team. i would definatly use one if it was my first year

[kwancho]

Rules require a 4-stroke.

[pengulns2001]

man you had to go and ruin my fun

[Nima]

I know that the 2 stroke is prohibited.
I forgot to say the question is not for fsae events... I want these type of engines for an off road buggy project for 2000 buggies per year mass production...

[JagLite]

Has anyone looked into using the Yamaha Phazer Snowmobile engine? The specs look favorable.
Yes, only 500cc but it is based on the technology of their 450 single MX bike that is so powerful. They say it is two of the 250cc MX bike engines joined. But there are many differences. Most that make it better for FSAE.

Some interesting points.
- It comes fuel injected
- A twin so half as many exhaust pipes
- The exhaust ports are on the REAR
- A CV drive system so no shifting or blowing an engine by shifting down instead of UP!
- Very light weight
- Designed for lateral loading so no dry sump
- Should be an easy forced induction candidate
- Yamaha (and their dealers) may be more interested in giving sponsorship deals to get more exposure to compete with the Honda 4's.

Another option, get your folks to buy you the sled and then "borrow" the engine for the project!

James
JagLite