engine mounts

[Nikhil Manjunath]

is any team using engine supports (steel, rubber, hydraulic mounts) that act as dampers... isolting the driver from the vibrations caused from engine torque or ubrupt gear shifts.. is there something available commercially for our requirement... any links..

thanks,
Ashwa Racing,
RVCE Bangalore
India.

[Nikhil Manjunath]

is any team using engine supports (steel, rubber, hydraulic mounts) that act as dampers... isolting the driver from the vibrations caused from engine torque or ubrupt gear shifts.. is there something available commercially for our requirement... any links..

thanks,
Ashwa Racing,
RVCE Bangalore
India.

[Steve Yao]

Many teams use their engine as a stress member of the chassis. Thus their are secured as rigidly as possible, most often bolted to hardpoints in the spacerframe.

Thus, zero isolation. With NVH in race cars, Noise and Vibration usually take a back seat to Handling.

[VFR750R]

Do you know what the limit of F1 vibration is? Engine vibration is reduced only when it makes the drivers vision blurry enough he can't drive; or, when the rear wing breaks off, which apparently is a bad thing.

[Nikhil Manjunath]

makes sense thanks.

[carmaxxx]

so let me get this straight.. an engine used as a stressed member would have no bushes, just a simple bolt being passed through the chassis tubing?

do teams have problems with engine vibration due to this?

and how many of the engine mounts are used generally?

[Parker]

I dont think that many teams would have vibration issues. The 4 cylinder bike motors are usually hard mounted to the frames of the motorcycle anyway.

We will be using 4 out of 6 total mounts on our engine.

[Tony K]

If your engine is producing enough vibration to cause issues, then it's probably the case that one of the connecting rods is ready to work its way out of the engine in a rather spectacular fashion. In order for an engine to be able to achieve such high rotational speeds it has to be balanced quite well, so the amount of vibration induced by the engine is rather low, especially in sport bike, and even more so F1 engines. We use 4 of the mounts on a 2004 R6 engine with an additional 4 pickup points added by replacing the oil pan with a structural sump, and vibration has never been an issue.

[Steve Yao]

We use all the hardpoints on the F4i for various loadings.

We've had one weld fail on an engine mount about 6 months after comp in 2005. Weld penetration was a little suspect.

[VFR750R]

That would be even 'less' so on an F1 engine. To decrease vibration/increase engine life, counterweight must be added to the crank. To increase acceleration....weight must be taken off the crank. Somewhere in the middle is your F1 engine.

Motorcycle engines are fully balanced for vibration reduction and longevity. They have to last more then a couple hundred miles.

[Alexandre D.]

Flexible mounts could be an issue because of the chain. It doesn't take that much misalignement to create a problem.

[vikas kolage]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alexandre D.:
Flexible mounts could be an issue because of the chain. It doesn't take that much misalignement to create a problem. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



no mount stiffness also need to check

[vikas kolage]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VFR750R:
Do you know what the limit of F1 vibration is? Engine vibration is reduced only when it makes the drivers vision blurry enough he can't drive; or, when the rear wing breaks off, which apparently is a bad thing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



do u know the calculation behand the engine mounting location if you know please share this ..

[tgman2]

After extensively looking through a mechanics of solids text book there does not appear to be a calculation titled engine mount location calculation.

Every engine on the market comes with the mounting points cast into the block. So it becomes a matter of picking (use most of them) which mounts you are going to attach the motor to the car with. Where it is going to sit, then working out if it is going to be strong enough on not. If you are using a space frame the calculations are relatively straight forward. You can do the same process in reverse if you have other constraints.
(a solid mechanics text book <STRIKE>should</STRIKE> will tell you how to work it out)

But if you didn't know this already then you are in the wrong game.

[thewoundedsoldier]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tony K:
We use 4 of the mounts on a 2004 R6 engine with an additional 4 pickup points added by replacing the oil pan with a structural sump, and vibration has never been an issue. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Any pictures? I think a structural sump is awesome!