Latest FSAE grad's project...

[Jersey Tom]

http://fsae1000.blogspot.com/

Formula 1000 car. Design / development notes will follow at the above space. Got a couple entries up there now. I'm open to and encourage comments and criticism!

Yea it's a little OT, but it's more relevant than the guy who was asking about engine turbine blades, and probably has more interesting information than the "How do I design brake?" threads.

Enjoy.

[Jersey Tom]

http://fsae1000.blogspot.com/

Formula 1000 car. Design / development notes will follow at the above space. Got a couple entries up there now. I'm open to and encourage comments and criticism!

Yea it's a little OT, but it's more relevant than the guy who was asking about engine turbine blades, and probably has more interesting information than the "How do I design brake?" threads.

Enjoy.

[Drew Price]

Yeah!! You're still around!

Two things:

1) Goodyear?

2) Did they really call you up to make new uprights?

We were next to your guys at MIS last May, and I have to say it was a great first experience, and probably the worst part is that you'd already left the team so I couldn't meet you there. Maybe meet up in Akron when I'm there for Thanksgiving.

Looks good, keep it up. The 312 is super sexy!

Best,
Drew

[Jersey Tom]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Drew Price:
Yeah!! You're still around!

Two things:

1) Goodyear?

2) Did they really call you up to make new uprights?

We were next to your guys at MIS last May, and I have to say it was a great first experience, and probably the worst part is that you'd already left the team so I couldn't meet you there. Maybe meet up in Akron when I'm there for Thanksgiving.

Looks good, keep it up. The 312 is super sexy!

Best,
Drew </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In '05 the seniors cast the uprights... by basically taking a billet machined design and just porting it over. Having seen the CNC version I thought I could turn it around in a day if I was hustlin. Since the year before they took a week, captain (Graham) said I was full of it.

Later on, while pressing in a wheel bearing the upright snapped. Apparently the casting process did not like the wildly varying cross section of the CNC shape and had pores up to 1mm in size. I then got a phone call from Graham with that exactly line.. I think followed by "I'll buy you a bottle of whatever nice vodka you want." But it was exam week, and I was a soph, so we had em outsourced for $1500 a pair.

http://photos-e.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v64/99/17/10200981/n10200981_34083148_2668.jpg

^^ The upright, and part of Graham.

I was at MIS last May, hung out around the CU paddock a bit. Mostly to bum food off them, and try to find things to critique on their car (job of alumni). Think I spoke with a few of your team members briefly. I may have been wearing a big blue shirt or jacket with white and yellow lettering. Or at that point I may have had the original black CU jacket.

But yea, I'll likely still be up around Akron round Thanksgiving. Let me know.

[Rellis]

That is cool Tom

If you are taking outside assistance I wouldn't mind throwing some cad work your way

[Superfast Matt McCoy]

My all time favorite cars of any kind are the late 60's F1 cars. Great choice for design. That said, i'd consider going with much much more wing.

Now I'm gonna have to start a Matt's-Land-Speed-Bike thread.

[Jersey Tom]

There will be heaps of wing eventually. Again, just placeholder. I need to find someone who knows a thing about aero, so its not just me picking NACA profiles out of a book...

[Zac]

if only there was a Missouri S&T grad who lived in Akron...

[Stocky Fast 1]

I noticed on the blog you were looking for some brake information. If you need something let me know I do the brakes for our SAE team.

Mike
Akron

[Mechanicaldan]

Free Excel based braking software
http://www.racetechmag.com/user/software/software.asp?menu=4

[billywight]

Tom,

Some quick notes:

1) If you want to be competitive, you'll need to go with a modern stlye body shape. Look at FC for inspiration. FA and FE are a bit big (frontal area) for this application. You'll need plenty of downforce too. While the old Ferrari style looks bitchin, it won't get you around the track the quickest...

2) Think about cooling - a lot of these guys are having cooling issues. This typically means large sidepods for large radiators and oil coolers (unless you get creative). Try to keep the frontal area down though...

3) You might rethink the Cane Creek idea. There is a reason everyone is running proper racing shocks. (Think oil capacity, available spring rates, valving adjustability, etc).

4) You will want a salisbury diff. These cars have significant weight transfer in cornering and you WILL max out the bias ratio of a quaife or similar on corner exit. (I've done a lot of work in this area.)

5) Tyres: Goodyear R160 is typical, and dependent on the track either a 7/9 or 8/10 for width (that's F/R).

6) The current "flavor of the year" in engines is the GSXR 1000. This may change for 09...

If you haven't already, look at www.apexspeed.com (http://www.apexspeed.com) in the FB forums for inspiration and what to do (and not to do). This class is quite different from FSAE due to the high importance of the aero, but it's not F1 either - don't compromise mechanical grip too much. Good luck!

[Neil S]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Zac:
if only there was a Missouri S&T grad who lived in Akron... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Does Richard ever check up on the forums though?

[Jersey Tom]

Few updates. Hopefully more this weekend, or tomorrow anyway. Halloween party tonight. Either going as a guido where I'll have to blowout my hair (google the term if you're unfamiliar).. or as a politician, where I'll have a Vote for Change shirt and go around lying to everyone.

Richard did have some comments.

Unfortunately while a full modern formula arrangement might be the quickest, I am too stubborn to go that route. It will be mostly old Ferrari.

Speaking of aero, I'm looking at one of the FB cars from Apex Speed and, as with all things, am taking it with a grain of salt. Particularly given that their front wing profile looks like its upside down.. ie will generate lift. Oops.

But yea. I'm stubborn. It will be old school Ferrari and it will be quick.

What would be handy would be a good human / driver model. I think Catia can create "Xth percentile" people solid models, but I don't have that...

[Brian Evans]

Several people, notably on Apexspeed and the DSR forum, are building cars from scratch. There is a thread about that going right now, actually. consensus is that it's as expensive a buying a new car, and a lot more expensive than modifying an existing FC car (F1000, or FB as it's actually called, rules came strongly from FC). With the drag/downforce vs power constraints of FB, the need for very sophisticated downforce to minimize drag seems to be paramount. It's kind of fun to note that a good FB will be about as quick around many tracks as the 1970 Ferrari you wish to emulate - with a third the HP.

Side pods are desirable for several reasons - they give you side impact protection, they give you a place to put all of the cooling that you will need and they give you a place to put the vestigal tunnels that will drive the sophisticated diffuser that you will need.

Basically, if you build a new old Ferrari, it will probably be nice looking and slow, at least compared to other FB cars. Maybe make it for FS and put a Huyabusa in it or something. I'd take a close look at the FB that Ralph Firman is building, and note the comment that it's basically a current F3 car with a tube frame rather than a carbon tub.

[Jersey Tom]

Don't get me wrong. I realize aero is a big deal.

But tell me this front wing isn't going to create lift...

http://lh5.ggpht.com/szelag/SQTf7apT-0I/AAAAAAAAAQE/ftxdc0O-3lM/s800/Edge%20left%20qrt%20view.jpg

[Corey H]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by billywight:

2) Think about cooling - a lot of these guys are having cooling issues. This typically means large sidepods for large radiators and oil coolers (unless you get creative). Try to keep the frontal area down though...

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

you don't necessarily need large side pods, you just need to design it right, one of our former captains started an F1000 team in Phoenix, here is the link to his site:

http://www.phoenixracecars.com/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1

If you look at his cars, each successive one has had smaller and smaller side pods in an effort to reduce drag.

I think it is pretty cool that he was able to take his passion and make it in to his career.

Good luck with your project

[ad]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jersey Tom:
Don't get me wrong. I realize aero is a big deal.

But tell me this front wing isn't going to create lift...

http://lh5.ggpht.com/szelag/SQTf7apT-0I/AAAAAAAAAQE/ftxdc0O-3lM/s800/Edge%20left%20qrt%20view.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would agree. But perhaps, giving the designer the benefit of doubt, that they have a heavily forward biased undertray centre of pressure, and he/she is trying to move it more rearward??

Still seems inefficient if that is the case.

[Superfast Matt McCoy]

If it does generate lift, I'm sure the design intent is to push air underneath the car. It may be a net gain given the aero rules.

[billywight]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">quote:
Originally posted by billywight:

2) Think about cooling - a lot of these guys are having cooling issues. This typically means large sidepods for large radiators and oil coolers (unless you get creative). Try to keep the frontal area down though...



you don't necessarily need large side pods, you just need to design it right, one of our former captains started an F1000 team in Phoenix, here is the link to his site:

http://www.phoenixracecars.com/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1

If you look at his cars, each successive one has had smaller and smaller side pods in an effort to reduce drag.

I think it is pretty cool that he was able to take his passion and make it in to his career.

Good luck with your project </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Notice that I said "typically"...

BTW, I've been talking with Dustin for a couple of years now and have seen the latest Phoenix car. He's got things pretty well sorted, so I doubt there will be much of a cooling issue.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">But tell me this front wing isn't going to create lift...

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's Gary Hickman's car. I think the angle of the picture is decieving as I didn't notice that when I've looked at the car. As far as I know, though, they've just picked a NACA profile and haven't done any CFD.

[Scotty]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You will want a salisbury diff. These cars have significant weight transfer in cornering and you WILL max out the bias ratio of a quaife or similar on corner exit. (I've done a lot of work in this area.) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


If I may point out here.
In the F1000 class. A Quaife has won the June Sprints with Glen Cooper in a Van Dieman conversion built by Jay Novak.

And also the ARRC with with Justin Pritchard in a Piper.

Our TRE Quaife diff is used in the Phoenix , Piper , Stohr , Philadelphia M/S and Novak conversion.Plus alot of the home builds.

I have never had any of these chassis builders or drivers tell me they MAXED the bias ratio on the diff.
In an urealted , but simular class . It also finished in the top 6 places at the SCCA Solo Nationals in
Formula SAE. 1ST place was Eric Leichtle and 3rd was Dr.Woods.


scotty
Taylor Race Engineering
scotty@taylor-race.com

[rjwoods77]

Scotty vs. Billy Round Whatever it is now.

Ding ding bitches!!!

[Scotty]

Rob,,,,

I thought you where in the Pen by now.

No mud slingin bud.....I saw Billy at the run offs ,
great guy. You need to have him post the pictures of the up-rights he is building for the Stohr DSR/CSR . Awsome work.

I was just pointing out some facts.


scotty

[billywight]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Scotty vs. Billy Round Whatever it is now.

Ding ding bitches!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

2008 SCCA National Championship Runoffs, DSR Class:

1st through 4th all running WRD (Salisbury) Diff. Ken Tyrrell would have had 5th as well with a WRD diff, but motor issues made him pull off.

Jean Luc rounded out the top 5 with a Taylor diff nearly 28 seconds behind 4th...

DSR is quite similar to FB, and with the increased aero it should require even less of a bias ratio than FB...

CSR: 1st and 2nd with the WRD diff, not sure what the rest were running as they were mostly atlantic conversions and not chain drive.

http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[billywight]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">No mud slingin bud.....I saw Billy at the run offs ,
great guy. You need to have him post the pictures of the up-rights he is building for the Stohr DSR/CSR . Awsome work. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the compliments Scotty. No mud-slingin between us, just having some fun!

If anyone's interested in the uprights mentioned, you can see more in the news section at http://www.luxonengineering.com

[Jersey Tom]

Cool uprights.

[Scotty]

Apples to Oranges...

You can not compair a DSR to a F1000.
How do you compair a full bodied aero car with tunnels.To an open wheel formula car with a
de-fusser and a two element rear wing.

[Jersey Tom]

In any event, the question of Salisbury or ATB for this car won't be answered until much later in the design cycle when I have a decent idea of what the cgh will be. Hopefully by then I'll also have an answer of what kind of low and high speed g's can be sustained by one of these cars.

[Scotty]

Your are absolutely right Tom..
Please keep me posted on build if you get time.


scotty
scotty@taylor-race.com

[billywight]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Apples to Oranges...

You can not compair a DSR to a F1000. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why not? Similar engine, track width, wheelbase, suspension rates, cg height, cornering speeds, top speeds, lateral/longitudinal acceleration potential, etc. Aero does play a factor, but the DSR makes more downforce so it follows that it will need less of a bias ratio than the FB.

After some weight transfer calculations this will be fairly apparent, though if the design is modular enough, you can try them both and see which one is faster.

[Jersey Tom]

Defin gonna have to come up with a good engine model soon. And.. going to have to go with different calipers than I originally wanted as apparently you can't use staggered bore sizes. Lame.

In the meantime, added up some thoughts on chassis stiffness and aligning torque. Might be an interesting read...

[woodstock]

Cool project but I want this one, good luck
http://www.mike-beauchamp.com/f1000/images/Speads-RC3.jpg

[RBbugBITme]

Awesome project, one I'm seriously considering after graduating.

Question, what kind of seat time do you have other than FSAE before you jump into this type of car? Any wheel to wheel experience?

[Jersey Tom]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RBbugBITme:
Awesome project, one I'm seriously considering after graduating.

Question, what kind of seat time do you have other than FSAE before you jump into this type of car? Any wheel to wheel experience? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not a bit. I'm not exactly looking to go all over the place and compete in the series (certainly not initially anyway). I'd be perfectly happy having something fun to play with at Mid Ohio or Beaver Run, or auto-x.

After that who knows.

[Buckingham]

I saw your blog on aligning torque (Nov 2), and offer my 2 cents.

There are actually two different torques that I think we need not confuse. The first is the torque between the contact patch and the ground (externally resolved). The second, is the torque caused by the net tire force being offset from the kingpin axis, and reacted by the steering element (internally resolved).

The externally resolved torque will produce a local torque on the ground underneath each tire's contact patch. It is this externally resolved torque at the ground that will affect the net forces/moments as seen about the vehicle CG. I am not enough of a tire expert to say in what magnitude this torque exists (if any), but if it does it would be a tire model output just like lateral force or pneumatic trail, and it would be based upon inputs like camber, speed, normal load, slip angle, etc. Since it would be a tire model output, it would be impossible to modify the torque at the ground through chassis load path design.

The internally resolved torque is caused by the net lateral force being offset (trail) from the kingpin axis. The internally resolved aligning torque can be modified through chassis design (changing the sum of pneumatic and mechanical trail). In the same way that jacking forces to not add/subtract from vertical wheel loads, the internally resolved aligning torque will not add to the net CG forces/moments.

I would suggest that your analysis is incorrectly representing an internally resolved force as acting on the external free-body.

[Zac]

Buckingham, I have two points:

1. I'm pretty sure Tom is referring to the pure Mz response of the tire and how this can influence the understeer/oversteer balance the driver feels, not the forces acting on the steering wheel. Aligning torque always(almost anyway) adds understeer.

2. Just because it's a tire model output doesn't mean you can't effect it with your chassis design. You can directly effect Mz using rim width and inflation pressure and indirectly by changing your kinematics, track width, etc. Whether or not you can exploit it to make your car go faster around a track is a different question than whether or not you can change it at all.

[Buckingham]

Zac,

1. Reading Tom's article and looking at the figure, I had assumed he was trying to show that the aligning moment reacted by the driver at the steering wheel (My = Fy * trail) would effect the net sum of forces/moments about the chassis as a whole. I apologize if I had made an incorrect assumption.

2. I would classify rim width and pressure under the "etc" that I listed. I should have been more specific I guess. What I meant about not being able to adjust an externally resolved force through chassis load path design was that changing your mechanical trail will change the torque seen at the steering wheel, but from the tire's point of view, it doesn't care how much mechanical trail you have, it only cares about normal load, slip angle, velocity, camber, rim width, pressure, ETC.

[Jersey Tom]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The externally resolved torque will produce a local torque on the ground underneath each tire's contact patch. It is this externally resolved torque at the ground that will affect the net forces/moments as seen about the vehicle CG. I am not enough of a tire expert to say in what magnitude this torque exists (if any), but if it does it would be a tire model output just like lateral force or pneumatic trail, and it would be based upon inputs like camber, speed, normal load, slip angle, etc. Since it would be a tire model output, it would be impossible to modify the torque at the ground through chassis load path design.

[...]

I am not enough of a tire expert to say in what magnitude this torque exists (if any)

[...]

I would suggest that your analysis is incorrectly representing an internally resolved force as acting on the external free-body </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The tire generates an aligning torque about the centerline, which is generally evaluated as pneumatic trail, yes. This has to be resolved by something / go somewhere. It's intuitive to me if I think of it at the rear tires, where there is just a direct toe link to the chassis. That aligning torque should be transfered through the suspension to the chassis, no? Result being a net understeer torque on the chassis as aligning torque builds and peaks, which then drops off.

You could try to offset this with mechanical trail, but even then as load camber and slip changes, the pneumatic trail changes as well.

Makes sense to me when summing the moments on the chassis to include those from the tire itself. The magnitude can be VERY significant!

It is a tire output parameter, and you can't eliminate it... but you can evaluate it to see (a) it's magnitude/significance and (b) mitigate its effects by means of spring and bar changes, wheel rate progression, blah blah blah.

Maybe the other way of thinking of it, is using Mz to determine your dynamic pneumatic trail (which will change your 'b' and 'a' values on the L and R side) which will also change the moment sum on the vehicle from Fy alone.

But hey, what do I know.

And let me just take this opportunity to say, Photoworks rocks.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_PvE8SOLu3Gc/SX1CdMZHF2I/AAAAAAAAAYU/IxFqqjTuRI8/s400/wheelassy2.jpg (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_PvE8SOLu3Gc/SX1CdMZHF2I/AAAAAAAAAYU/IxFqqjTuRI8/s1600-h/wheelassy2.jpg)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_PvE8SOLu3Gc/SX1Dyoq6rNI/AAAAAAAAAYc/bwkO9Co2XsE/s400/wheelassy4.jpg (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_PvE8SOLu3Gc/SX1Dyoq6rNI/AAAAAAAAAYc/bwkO9Co2XsE/s1600-h/wheelassy4.jpg)

[Superfast Matt McCoy]

I'm going to simultaneously bump JT's thread, and hijack it. Hopefully this will draw people to the F1000 blog and also prevent people from getting their panties in a wad about another non-fsae thread.

Feel free to hijack it back.

I've got a blog running for my "latest fsae grad's project", an 18 foot long, 2 foot tall, torpedo shaped contraption:

Superfast, no really. (http://superfastmatt.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=2&Itemid=21)

http://www.superfastmatt.com/images/rc44.jpg


Enjoy.

[Chuckster]

Been a student of limited slips for many years-

since the early 1980's when I ran a 1970 Lotus Europa DM car in SCCA Solo with a ZF cam and pawl type. Have used lotsa Quaifes and Salisbury's and then a long 14 years stint with a locked rear (required by rules in F500).

My 2 centavo's:

Limited slip level of lockup up become less of an issue as rearward weight bias improves, power goes down, radius of slowest corner increases.

I have even sold open diff parts to serious DSR racers who have no need at all for a limited slip.

The new American made evolution of the the Gleason or Quaife may solve that diff category's lock-up limitations. Talking about the one with the wavy cam added to the worm gear/worm wheel setup.

[Hector]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Superfast Matt McCoy:
I'm going to simultaneously bump JT's thread, and hijack it. Hopefully this will draw people to the F1000 blog and also prevent people from getting their panties in a wad about another non-fsae thread.

Feel free to hijack it back.

I've got a blog running for my "latest fsae grad's project", an 18 foot long, 2 foot tall, torpedo shaped contraption:

Superfast, no really. (http://superfastmatt.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=2&Itemid=21)

http://www.superfastmatt.com/images/rc44.jpg


Enjoy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, but does it pass the template rules?

[Steve Yao]

Nice. Literally a coffin with wheels. Looks like you have to shimmy into a fetal position to get out?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Superfast Matt McCoy:
I'm going to simultaneously bump JT's thread, and hijack it. Hopefully this will draw people to the F1000 blog and also prevent people from getting their panties in a wad about another non-fsae thread.

Feel free to hijack it back.

I've got a blog running for my "latest fsae grad's project", an 18 foot long, 2 foot tall, torpedo shaped contraption:

Superfast, no really. (http://superfastmatt.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=2&Itemid=21)

http://www.superfastmatt.com/images/rc44.jpg


Enjoy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Superfast Matt McCoy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hector:
Yeah, but does it pass the template rules? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm more worried about the skidpad.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Steve Yao:
Nice. Literally a coffin with wheels. Looks like you have to shimmy into a fetal position to get out?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I used to call the driver cockpit area "the coffin". I was going to make it a theme but a guy died last year in a bike very similar to mine so it seemed inappropriate.

It's tough to get in and out of, but I've got it down pretty quickly. Still, I've gotta stay at my race weight for no other reason than being able to fit.

I'm still trying to think of a name for it. Maybe "No Fat Chicks"

[Auerbach]

I finally got around to putting together this video of the build I've been doing for the last year. The diff is the last major piece of the puzzle, hopefully to come in the next month or so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h1mUvZstQg

-chris

[Superfast Matt McCoy]

Nice. Is that going to be a road legal car? Are you going to put a body on it, or just put panels on the sides like the CAD model.

[RacingManiac]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Superfast Matt McCoy:


http://www.superfastmatt.com/images/rc44.jpg



Enjoy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Egress a concern at all?...http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Superfast Matt McCoy]

I'm more worried about me or my limbs being unwillingly egressed at speed. It should take me about 15 seconds to get out (by rule it must be under 30), and I'm okay with that given my SFI/20 suit and the two separate Halon systems.

[Auerbach]

Yep, road legal is the goal.
I'm working on some body plugs for a "hood" and a radiator cover. The rear will have an engine cover with ram air intake between the hoops. I'll also have to make some upright mounted fenders.
I plan on doing aircraft fabric for the sides, which I've never done, so if anybody has tips or tricks, bring 'em on. As far as I know, you cut it to the rough shape, glue it to the tubes and then heat it with some sort of mini iron to tighten it.

Superfast, what Halon system are you getting? I was looking at the Jeg's catalogue but I'm not sure I want Jeg's quality in my "save my life" system.

[Superfast Matt McCoy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Auerbach:
Yep, road legal is the goal.
I'm working on some body plugs for a "hood" and a radiator cover. The rear will have an engine cover with ram air intake between the hoops. I'll also have to make some upright mounted fenders.
I plan on doing aircraft fabric for the sides, which I've never done, so if anybody has tips or tricks, bring 'em on. As far as I know, you cut it to the rough shape, glue it to the tubes and then heat it with some sort of mini iron to tighten it.

Superfast, what Halon system are you getting? I was looking at the Jeg's catalogue but I'm not sure I want Jeg's quality in my "save my life" system. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sure the Firebottle or Deist on Jegs is as good as any. I'm probably going to buy Deist. I think most NASCAR teams use Safecraft.

[Drew Price]

Finally time to add my activities to this thread.

I applogize, it's wicked long, but I wanted to get a good foundation down so updates can be much shorter, and then I have all this info in one place that I can pull it from later.

I will try to have updates and record keeping go into the blog I started to catlogue the work I'm doing on the '73 Saab 99, which will eventually be a ChumpCar endurance road racer. The team of drivers will (hopefully) be made up mostly of my old FSAE team mates when they can make it to races.

The blog shares our team name, the Underemployed Engineers. (http://underemployedengineers.blogspot.com/)



I've been working two projects pretty heavily since I started work at an independent Saab service shop in west Los Angeles. The '73 Saab 99, and an '83 Alfa Romeo GTV-6.

--- The big project car is prepping a 1973 Saab model 99 (99 race car photos) (http://picasaweb.google.com/saabtechlosangeles) for 'Chump World Series' (http://chumpcar.com/about.php) road racing. Similar premise to LeMons, but without all the shenanigans, and the same $500 preparation budget.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_DsnaEup4bzk/SyLGw5biO0I/AAAAAAAAAtc/5b25ImF8c7Q/s640/White_9k_Aero%20007.jpg

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_DsnaEup4bzk/SyLGyTjIn0I/AAAAAAAAAtk/CTBKYBbr_8g/s640/White_9k_Aero%20010.jpg



I bought the car non-running after it had been sitting about 6 years for $150. It was complete, and the shell is nearly spotless, hardly a spot of rust on the entire thing. It was originally from Phoenix, then sat in Palm Springs with a blown gearbox for 6 years outside and uncovered until I bought it.

This video is after quite a bit of time working on getting the original engine going - rebuilt fuel pump and some of the gearbox, re-wired a fair bit under the hood, new fuel lines and cleaned out CIS fuel system parts, newer ignition and cooling system parts:


'73 99 running about about the 1st time. (http://picasaweb.google.com/saabtechlosangeles/7399RaceCar2GetItRunning#5415167715964089938) It has a pretty snarly sound with the original 8-valve engine and a pair of glasspacks in the exhaust system. '73 is smog exempt in California, so no cat. It has Bosch K-Jetronic mechanical fuel injection



http://lh4.ggpht.com/_DsnaEup4bzk/SyLDeNM1WXI/AAAAAAAAAkc/gffq-ton5s0/s640/%2771%20Saab%2099%20LE%20001.jpg

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_DsnaEup4bzk/SyLDh0OtBXI/AAAAAAAAAks/f0y9vkptYsc/s640/%2771%20Saab%2099%20LE%20005.jpg

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_DsnaEup4bzk/SyLDgzkmvSI/AAAAAAAAAko/vbHPkGCNo8M/s640/%2771%20Saab%2099%20LE%20004.jpg

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_DsnaEup4bzk/SyLDlFn71VI/AAAAAAAAAk8/DJMJiVW2zEI/s640/%2771%20Saab%2099%20LE%20010.jpg


http://lh6.ggpht.com/_DsnaEup4bzk/SyLE-SRqsyI/AAAAAAAAAqY/_5xI46-6vJQ/s640/IMG_4390.JPG

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_DsnaEup4bzk/SyLDxTiTMfI/AAAAAAAAAl0/T0YrgU6rWOU/s640/99%20003.jpg



http://lh4.ggpht.com/_DsnaEup4bzk/SyLDyb2QiNI/AAAAAAAAAl4/e-5WwYBW4yg/s640/99%20004.jpg

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_DsnaEup4bzk/SyLEkqQmNdI/AAAAAAAAAos/tAeSjeQoK4I/s640/%2773%20Saab%2099%20004.jpg

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_DsnaEup4bzk/SyLEviuV74I/AAAAAAAAApY/WW0fLlE9WL8/s640/%2773%20Saab%2099%20014.jpg

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_DsnaEup4bzk/SyLEdisMOpI/AAAAAAAAAoQ/qSbp3ny2sg0/s640/99%20040.jpg

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_DsnaEup4bzk/SyLEdisMOpI/AAAAAAAAAoQ/qSbp3ny2sg0/s640/99%20040.jpg

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_DsnaEup4bzk/SyLEejDQchI/AAAAAAAAAoU/Wli88ChyNBA/s640/99%20041.jpg





The 99 is getting complete suspension transplant from the newer 900 series complete with much larger brakes, anti-roll bars and modern sealed double row ACBB wheel bearings. It's also getting a set of tired Bilstein dampers, chopped 900 springs, and wider wheels (original tires were a 155/75-15!).

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_DsnaEup4bzk/SyLJHWdCbnI/AAAAAAAAAxQ/QJxfLorHczc/s640/900%20Suspension%20003.jpg

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_DsnaEup4bzk/SyLJIKsBRmI/AAAAAAAAAxU/6U14vn4OVrU/s640/900%20Suspension%20004.jpg

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_DsnaEup4bzk/SyLJJ6hqJ6I/AAAAAAAAAxc/HGiXSPbwvGA/s640/900%20Suspension%20006.jpg





For drivetrain it's getting a stroked classic 900 turbo engine, with the Saab Trionic 5 engine management system pulled from a '99 9-3 we stripped for parts, which I can tune myself via an open source interface that's come about in the past few years.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_DsnaEup4bzk/SyLJKh1FP4I/AAAAAAAAAxg/NKnj2eHll78/s640/1999_9-3_donor%20001.jpg

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_DsnaEup4bzk/SyLJQClIsmI/AAAAAAAAAx8/JIQtFX2OQSQ/s640/1999_9-3_donor%20008.jpg





It's also getting a shortened ratio late-'70's 4-speed gearbox from a model 99 Turbo which is stronger than the later 5-speed boxes (to make it into a 5-speed - they just shrunk everthing down a bit to make room for the 5th gear cluster and different primary reduction). It's been converted to work with the larger diff and inner tripods for the 900 front suspension and halfshafts.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_DsnaEup4bzk/SyaKYZ2bkiI/AAAAAAAABBo/2zTk5tcec0o/s640/%2773%20Saab%2099%20042.jpg

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_DsnaEup4bzk/SyaKbyITznI/AAAAAAAABB4/KBc6YM6-4SU/s640/%2773%20Saab%2099%20046.jpg

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_DsnaEup4bzk/SyaKiy69O0I/AAAAAAAABCc/hfIDhH1Mw8k/s640/%2773%20Saab%2099%20054.jpg

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_DsnaEup4bzk/SyaKnaVkiWI/AAAAAAAABCw/OU-5Yp53V5A/s640/%2773%20Saab%2099%20059.jpg

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_DsnaEup4bzk/SyaKzuxSEvI/AAAAAAAABDk/ZCgILwawmGU/s640/%2773%20Saab%2099%20072.jpg



Larger output stub from the later 900 gearboxes on the left.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_DsnaEup4bzk/SyaK0W6RP0I/AAAAAAAABDo/A2cxXkeukoQ/s640/%2773%20Saab%2099%20073.jpg



I got the factory service manual set, and have specs for setting pinion bearing pre-load, diff support bearing pre-load, and ring gear backlash for re-assembly:

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_DsnaEup4bzk/SyaK5IzKiCI/AAAAAAAABEA/o-GvyRv9kTM/s512/%2773%20Saab%2099%20079.jpg

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_DsnaEup4bzk/SyaK6AjVxfI/AAAAAAAABEE/EtwDIlTusO4/s512/%2773%20Saab%2099%20080.jpg

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_DsnaEup4bzk/SyaLAkziJ7I/AAAAAAAABEk/Riu0r3aaAQA/s512/%2773%20Saab%2099%20088.jpg



The early and late ring gears bolt right up to the different diff housing / spider combinations, so the conversion keeps the matched set pinion shaft and ring gear matched, with the newer larger output hardware.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_DsnaEup4bzk/SyaLZCfS-PI/AAAAAAAABGc/pVh0NU8acYM/s640/%2773%20Saab%2099%20118.jpg

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_DsnaEup4bzk/SyaLhNrhNjI/AAAAAAAABHE/OWp5R1--Ku0/s640/%2773%20Saab%2099%20127.jpg



Diff goes right back in.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_DsnaEup4bzk/SyaLxXIi4KI/AAAAAAAABIY/5oCF2tnsMdE/s640/%2773%20Saab%2099%20148.jpg

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_DsnaEup4bzk/SyaLySTG0OI/AAAAAAAABIc/h-f_lExnfes/s640/%2773%20Saab%2099%20149.jpg

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_DsnaEup4bzk/SyaMBbNTw0I/AAAAAAAABJk/6HixRVze5Gg/s640/%2773%20Saab%2099%20165.jpg





I am building the cage here at the shop to meet club rally spec, so that I can keep my options open for running the car in different series in a few years if I want since budget for safety systems isn't capped. I've built up a decent collection of tooling, and my tubing order came in last week. Time to lay out the butcher paper, and start bending. Still need to strip the inner door skins, get the rest of the sound deadening out, and cut out the rest of the un-needed mounting brackets and bits on the shell.



(photos coming)



--- The second has been on-going work on an '83 Alfa Romeo GTV-6 (GTV-6 photos!) (http://picasaweb.google.com/drewpprice/1983AlfaRomeoGTV6#) that I bought from a customer who brought it in after having it parked for 10 years and didn't want to deal with it.



My passion for the Saabs is (somewhat sadly) terminally ingrained, but the story of the Alfa is pretty amusing, so I'll tell that one first:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Look what I just bought:

It's an '83 Alfa Romeo GTV-6. It has an all aluminum 60 degree 2.5 litre V-6, rear mounted transaxle and clutch, inboard rear disk brakes, and longintudinal torsion spring independent front suspension.

I paid $40 for it.

I bought it, because they actually sound like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...ofmI&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Cl0E6iofmI&feature=related)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OBaXj8cl5A

It's a good story, really.

It got towed here, non-running, about 2 months ago.

Owner said he had no money to spend on it, and didn't want us to go ahead with any of the work we recommended.

We called to ask him to come pick the car up.

He fell off the face of the earth. (He has been in prison.)

His Dad showed up with one of his other cars, a Saab classic 900 convertible that he had no keys for, so we bypassed all the lock cylinders to it was at least moveable, and he was about to leave the country, and didn't know when the son was getting out, and said he didn't want to deal with the Alfa anymore anyways.

So he said he'd just sign it over to someone so he didn't have to deal with moving it again.

The shop owner asked if I wanted it.

I said, "Of course I do."

The dad said, "Do you have a couple hundred bucks in cash on you, I don't take credit cards (&lt;---- sarcasm)."

I said, "I have $40."

He said (reaching for a pen), "Whatever." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



The Alfa was complete but had been sitting a loooong time. It only smelled a bit like mice in the engine compartment. All the rubber fuel lines leaked, 3 of the 6 injectors were stuck shut, one of the ignition amplifiers was fried inside, battery cables were shorting out, clutch master works intermittently, shifter linkage was almost non-existant, fuel tank was full of......goop. Now the car has a Saab ignition system, BMW radiator hoses, a squeaky clean new fuel system, and it starts. And idles. And drives.

See it running, this was about the 3rd time I got it to start. (http://picasaweb.google.com/drewpprice/1983AlfaRomeoGTV6#5414982133580828162)



The other guys at work are infinitely amused with my bizarre taste in automobiles (and they are Saab lovers themselves), and my never-ending willingness to stay till 2 or 3am fiddling with my car, the Alfa, the yellow 99, but that just comes with my background.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_JNlhJgnxXHk/SwxPObqDUEI/AAAAAAAADbc/jhlWgbKEbuE/s640/Alfa_GTV6%20001.jpg

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_JNlhJgnxXHk/SwxPQgje8PI/AAAAAAAADbo/O52mqcsG91w/s640/Alfa_GTV6%20004.jpg

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_JNlhJgnxXHk/SwxPTTGy9XI/AAAAAAAADpM/zB9TPtPidfs/s640/Alfa_GTV6%20007.jpg

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_JNlhJgnxXHk/SwxPUujvWII/AAAAAAAADb8/eBObQzZ8P8w/s640/Alfa_GTV6%20009.jpg

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_JNlhJgnxXHk/SwxPWJDOuuI/AAAAAAAADpU/188bbSynxZI/s512/Alfa_GTV6%20010.jpg

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_JNlhJgnxXHk/SwxPfAS7iJI/AAAAAAAADkA/WYNSd8HXh1o/s640/Alfa_GTV6%20021.jpg

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_JNlhJgnxXHk/SwxPh3Wlw9I/AAAAAAAADc8/zA-dM1RLCho/s640/Alfa_GTV6%20024.jpg




Very first time it.... 'ran.' (http://picasaweb.google.com/drewpprice/1983AlfaRomeoGTV6#5407787483105192626)



Right after the very first time it 'ran.'



http://lh6.ggpht.com/_JNlhJgnxXHk/SwxSE6vyeJI/AAAAAAAADdM/D9BBFO86EgU/s640/Alfa_GTV6%20027.jpg

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_JNlhJgnxXHk/SwxSGnXNdqI/AAAAAAAADdU/o5hHJO-Q_Xg/s640/Alfa_GTV6%20029.jpg

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_JNlhJgnxXHk/SwxSIjNOXSI/AAAAAAAADdc/TIP4tDvxOeU/s640/Alfa_GTV6%20031.jpg

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_JNlhJgnxXHk/SwxSMgF6VXI/AAAAAAAADds/oRODEcOThzE/s640/Alfa_GTV6%20035.jpg

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_JNlhJgnxXHk/SwxSO49pIfI/AAAAAAAADkQ/xfXEBrbTxWE/s640/Alfa_GTV6%20037.jpg

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_JNlhJgnxXHk/SwxSQ1ygmHI/AAAAAAAADd8/6SLr9N4tGz0/s640/Alfa_GTV6%20039.jpg



Crazy 'hose on top' style Bosch fuel injectors. 3 of mine were stuck closed from having fuel sit in them for so long. The work on the same 5v pulsed signal of later low impedence injectors.


http://lh6.ggpht.com/_JNlhJgnxXHk/SwxSSJ0925I/AAAAAAAADeE/jixCe9QumjU/s512/Alfa_GTV6%20043.jpg



One of the guys at the shop had this trick testing tool. You give it +12v, and it'll pulse Bosch injectors continuously, or with one long pulse, or 10 short ones, etc. for testing or cleaning, so I was able to run cleaning solution from our heated parts washer through them, pulse the solenoids with the tool, and rap on the side of the stuck injector bodies with the plastic handle of a screwdriver until the freed up and started clicking away.


http://lh3.ggpht.com/_JNlhJgnxXHk/SwxSYIRGCgI/AAAAAAAADeo/5X3wLzTeQRY/s512/Alfa_GTV6%20056.jpg

Then it was run solvent through each of them for a few minutes, then I rigged up a fuel pump drawing from a gallon tank of fuel with like 3 bottle if injector cleaner in it



http://lh6.ggpht.com/_JNlhJgnxXHk/SwxSXaFkFtI/AAAAAAAADek/vsoE4hkZH30/s640/Alfa_GTV6%20055.jpg

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_JNlhJgnxXHk/SwxSbku6xSI/AAAAAAAADe4/RWtU5zcdraY/s640/Alfa_GTV6%20060.jpg



The factory also put the inlet runners spaced from the heads with two paper gaskets and a phenolic spacer for each runner, something not usually found in street cars.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_JNlhJgnxXHk/SwxSdHBjVxI/AAAAAAAADfA/4ha8cGlnBHw/s640/Alfa_GTV6%20062.jpg





Best,
Drew