WR450 Starter?

[Spetsnazos]

Hey guys I'm looking around for a WR450 OE Starter or a better OE replacement starter(for less $).

What are you guys doing for your starters that crap out on you? Where are you guys buying them?

in b4 Google, WR forums, craigslist, ebay.

Thanks for the help!

[Spetsnazos]

Hey guys I'm looking around for a WR450 OE Starter or a better OE replacement starter(for less $).

What are you guys doing for your starters that crap out on you? Where are you guys buying them?

in b4 Google, WR forums, craigslist, ebay.

Thanks for the help!

[roepke44]

There is no cheap solution to that problem. We could not find a cheaper alternative, we could not even find a place to rebuild them. The only thing you can do is try to get a sponsorship from Yamaha. This is one of those cases where an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Don't overheat them. Don't run them for more than 5 seconds or so at a time, and even then, feel the starter often and if it feels hot, let it cool down before running it any more.

[Demon Of Speed]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by roepke44:
There is no cheap solution to that problem. We could not find a cheaper alternative, we could not even find a place to rebuild them. The only thing you can do is try to get a sponsorship from Yamaha. This is one of those cases where an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Don't overheat them. Don't run them for more than 5 seconds or so at a time, and even then, feel the starter often and if it feels hot, let it cool down before running it any more. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We run a Honda single and have/had the same problem, especially tuning start up (hot and cold). Run a thermo couple on the starter, and make sure it stays cool.

You can get replacement brushes (or at least of the Honda) but that doesn't matter if you burn up the windings.

Additionally, get creative with how you start the engine.

[Spetsnazos]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by roepke44:
There is no cheap solution to that problem. We could not find a cheaper alternative, we could not even find a place to rebuild them. The only thing you can do is try to get a sponsorship from Yamaha. This is one of those cases where an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Don't overheat them. Don't run them for more than 5 seconds or so at a time, and even then, feel the starter often and if it feels hot, let it cool down before running it any more. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the heads-up man. I heard something very similar from someone on our team that has had experience with them in the past.

They're pretty expensive from Yamaha...In the range of ~$500 from what I see...

Also if any team has a trashed/burned out one I am willing to buy it! We are transplanting one on a YZ450 and need to see how exactly we are going to connect it(same splines?). A trashed one at least lets us figure out the issue now.

Socal area preferred!

Thanks!

[Drew Price]

Isn't the case completely different? The YZ probably won't have the mounting bosses for the electric start....



Drew

[MalcolmG]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Drew Price:
Isn't the case completely different? The YZ probably won't have the mounting bosses for the electric start....



Drew </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Even better, the crankshaft is different so the stock starter parts wont swap without some work. Found that out the hard way last year

[Spetsnazos]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Drew Price:
Isn't the case completely different? The YZ probably won't have the mounting bosses for the electric start....
Drew </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly why I'd like a non-functional one to mess with and see what we need!

[Spetsnazos]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MalcolmG:

Even better, the crankshaft is different so the stock starter parts wont swap without some work. Found that out the hard way last year </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What exactly did you guys change to get it to work? Probably a long shot but I thought I'd ask http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[MalcolmG]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Spetsnazos:
What exactly did you guys change to get it to work? Probably a long shot but I thought I'd ask http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The crankshaft http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif And also the associated bits that go between the crankshaft and the starter (including the flywheel/generator rotor, and probably other stuff that I don't really know about because I wasn't an engine guy). Didn't have to do anything with the engine casing because we made that anyway

[Spetsnazos]

you guys made your own case or modified te original case?


looks like this conversion is going to be lots of fun...

[MalcolmG]

made our own, for reasons that had nothing to do with making the starter system work http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[wagemd]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Drew Price:
Isn't the case completely different? The YZ probably won't have the mounting bosses for the electric start....



Drew </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good to know... I was under the impression that the bottom end was very similar between YZ and WR. F4i this year, but we have a WR sitting on the dyno for tinkering...

[Jimmy01]

The cases are the same between the yz and wr but are machined differently to accept the different generators and starting mechanisms. I imagine you could make some slight mods to the cases so it will work. You will however require: WR crankshaft, starter overload clutch, a couple of gears, sprag clutch, flywheel/generator, WR sidecover, starter motor. I think thats all, but with the cost of all that you are better off tracking down a WR engine.

[Mbirt]

Any one have any tips on keeping thumper starter clutches alive? Now that we've figured out how to make a starter last on our crf450x, it'd be nice to remove starter clutches from the "consumables" list and not have to change it twice at comp...

[roepke44]

For starter clutches, just always have a few on hand. besides the odvious keep them clean, install them corectly, and always replace the entire unit- not just the the "teeth" or starter gear. Also don't try to smooth out the surface on the gear that the teeth ride on if it gets messed up, it doesn't work.

[Mbirt]

Ah yes. We learned our lesson about your last point there... A frankensteined starter clutch with an old inner race that was deemed "good enough" gave out on us at comp.

The starter geartrain sounds happier now that we're cranking it faster with the starting solution and with less voltage drop at the battery to mess with the Megasquirt. Hopefully stronger, more consistent starts increase our starter clutch longevity.

[exbaja]

If you guys want to keep from killing them, use very good wire, ground direct to the starter from the battery, and limit total starter usage time per minute to less than 10 seconds. They are, at heart outside of the mounts, standard japanese starters, and there are companies out there that can modify and rewire them (don't have the info off hand).

Clutches shouldn't be an issue. If you are destroying starter clutches you have other issues, like gross overheating, or terrible oil.

[Demon Of Speed]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by exbaja:
If you guys want to keep from killing them, use very good wire, ground direct to the starter from the battery, and limit total starter usage time per minute to less than 10 seconds. They are, at heart outside of the mounts, standard japanese starters, and there are companies out there that can modify and rewire them (don't have the info off hand).

Clutches shouldn't be an issue. If you are destroying starter clutches you have other issues, like gross overheating, or terrible oil. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You apparently haven't worked with a single.

[Mbirt]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by exbaja:
They are, at heart outside of the mounts, standard japanese starters...
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Our current Chinese starter has lasted twice as long as any OE starter we've used and shows no signs of giving up any time soon http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[exbaja]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Demon Of Speed:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by exbaja:
If you guys want to keep from killing them, use very good wire, ground direct to the starter from the battery, and limit total starter usage time per minute to less than 10 seconds. They are, at heart outside of the mounts, standard japanese starters, and there are companies out there that can modify and rewire them (don't have the info off hand).

Clutches shouldn't be an issue. If you are destroying starter clutches you have other issues, like gross overheating, or terrible oil. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You apparently haven't worked with a single. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, I have pretty much only worked with singles. I used to make a living as an engineer working with singles until that race team had no money.

I am giving you experience from my Aprilia SXV and my DRZ400 with a high compression stroker engine with no decompressor.

Aprilia limits the time you can crank the bike per minute in the stock ECU to prevent overheating the stock starter. Not a great solution, but it works to make starters live.

My DRZ was a fiasco. The stock starter would not turn the modified engine over. I killed a number of stock starters. A larger battery helped somewhat, but I still couldn't get the bike to start. Wiring the ground directly to the starter and using extremely high quality cables/connectors made a night and day difference.

Not saying I have any experience with a single in an FSAE car, but I can say without much doubt I have more experience with singles in bikes than any student I have ever met.

[Drew Price]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mbirt:
Any one have any tips on keeping thumper starter clutches alive? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yeah, use an LTR-450 and be done with it.....



http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif



Drew