New Taylor Race Differential

[spoles]

Curious to see how testing has been going for anyone who purchased the new Taylor Race diff this year?

We were strongly considering it, but I was skeptical of the aluminum stub axles and also how narrow it is.

Have the splines and tripod housings held? And what are your axle lengths looking like compared to each other?

-Tom

[jlangholzj]

Our axle lengths are a-symmetric....right one's a little longer than the other. Havne't had any time to test it yet...but i mean c'mon! Its a taylor product......Don't think you're going to have to worry about quality.

[spoles]

How much longer is a little longer?

I was thinking of using the single sprocket version or whatever it's called but to line up the sprocket adapter with the transmission I would have had the right side axle 3-4 inches longer. I've seen that set up before and I know judges hate that.

And if you gun-drill your axles, what's the O.D. difference?

-Tom

[jlangholzj]

Originally posted by spoles:
How much longer is a little longer?

I was thinking of using the single sprocket version or whatever it's called but to line up the sprocket adapter with the transmission I would have had the right side axle 3-4 inches longer. I've seen that set up before and I know judges hate that.

And if you gun-drill your axles, what's the O.D. difference?

-Tom

I don't necessarily know if they "hate" it or not....but we made a decision and went with it based on the pro's/con's we could formulate. they're 3-4" longer in our geometry as well.

We've never touched the axles other than cutting grooves and drilling holes for the pins. Besides scotty's got the new style axles that are considerably larger ID than the old ones.

Could they be drilled out more? Maybe....am I willing to find that out at this time? Nope.

[spoles]

Anyone from Carnegie Mellon, I sent you a PM but feel free to reply here.

I saw the pic on your website did you swap out the aluminum stub axles with steel ones?

[cal_len1]

Correct me if i'm wrong Scotty, but the tulips on this one are steel because the aluminum ones were not ready for the release. If i remember correctly, for us one axle ended up being just under 3 in longer than the other.

We have had ours out testing a few times and it seems to work great. The only issue with the diff is that the seal on the endbells to the shaft is not terrific and it tends to seep fluid.

Callen Schmalz
SDSM&T FHR
Drivetrain Lead 2012-2013

[spoles]

Ah, that seems likely. Like I said before, I was skeptical of the design I saw at Lincoln last year. The steels ones I saw on Mellon's site looked like Taylor-machined ones.

Callen,
Is the seal O.D. a nice dimension; do you think it can be replaced by something on McMaster or similar site?

[cal_len1]

The design where the tulips are is much different than the old diff. On the small end of the Tulip it seats into a bearing inner race. Then below that, I don't remember if it was a seal or a bushing, but Scotty told me to put some silicon in there when the tulips were put on there for the final time. That seemed to help a bit, but it still does seep a bit of fluid. It is possible that I didn't get the surfaces clean enough so the silicon wont stick, but either way it is more of an annoyance than anything else.

Callen Schmalz
SDSM&T FHR
Drivetrain Lead 2012-2013

[spoles]

So what does the unit actually weigh now with steel stub axles instead of aluminum?

[cal_len1]

To be honest I didn't actually weigh it because I was in a hurry to get it on the car because we were behind. Unless someone else has weighed theirs and wants to chime in, I will let you know the next week when our car goes to paint.

Callen Schmalz
SDSM&T FHR
Drivetrain Lead 2012-2013

[spoles]

Thanks... Two more questions:

Did you use the bearings that came on the unit or did you swap smaller ones on?

And do you have a pic or a description of how the locking ring works? I don't understand it's purpose and why the sprocket bolting to the adapter isn't enough.

[dmacke]

Not sure if you are needing one for this year but our team has had quite a bit of success designing our own differential housing (Torsen), stubs, and axles. It saved our team close to $2500 to do it ourselves. Just my 2 cents.

[spoles]

I've done that as well for this year's car.

[cal_len1]

Tom:
1. I used the bearings that came with it because I could not find another bearing that had the right bore that was not heavier.

2. I'm not totally sure what your question is. Are you referring to the mounting of the sprocket hat?

dmacke:
Did you use the University Special internals? My team used to use the internals then would build a custom case for it. When we switched to the taylor race diff there was actually a considerable performance difference. I attribute this to the wrong lubricant being used in the internals. This caused it to randomly lock up when going around corners, which made driving fun, but not all that fast. What is weight on yours after all the custom made components?

Callen Schmalz
SDSM&T FHR
Drivetrain Lead 2012-2013

[spoles]

I just don't know what the lock nut holds on. Surely not the sprocket there's no room it looks like from the model.

As for the custom housing the one I made for the torsen is right at 10 pounds with stub axles and sprocket loaded. It is quite long about 8.5" so my drive axles are approximately the same length.

[dmacke]

The housing with internals and bearings weighed in at around 6 pounds. That does not include sprocket or stubs. I didn't weight all the components together before they got put on the car. We are currently testing aluminum stubs. I am guessing the weight with sprocket and aluminum stubs would fall around 9 pounds

Our team had run Taylor Race in the past and we did not have much luck (failures at competition 2 years in a row). That isn't necessarily the fault of Taylor Race but our team now has a much better understanding of drivetrain because we designed it ourselves.

I would like to do some investigation into using different lubricants in the differential because from my understanding, lubricant viscosity affects the TBR of the differential. I'm thinking this could potentially be tuned to the driver's certain tastes. My only concern being Torsen recommends a GL-4 or GL-5 lubricant so I am apprehensive of running "racing" gear oils.

[spoles]

Originally posted by dmacke:
We are currently testing aluminum stubs.

Would you be willing give us feedback or post a pic of the aluminum stubs after a few weeks of testing? I tried quite a few ideas of aluminum stubs but have not come across any worth machining.

[dmacke]

Originally posted by spoles:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dmacke:
We are currently testing aluminum stubs.

Would you be willing give us feedback or post a pic of the aluminum stubs after a few weeks of testing? I tried quite a few ideas of aluminum stubs but have not come across any worth machining. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Will do.

[cal_len1]

If the image shows up below it is of the nut that you are referring to. It holds the sprocket hat on, then you bolt your sprocket to the hat.

As for the lubricants, I have seen data that shows that in the case of quaife and possibly torsen differentials the lubricant is the only thing that affects total bias ratio. If you use too viscous of a fluid it will cause a lower TBR. Because the fluid is much more viscous, the differential has to overcome much more friction to unlock. In our old Torsens we used a grease because the cases were not made well enough to hold oil. As I mentioned earlier operation of these was very sketchy and would lock up randomly and would result in some very tail happy operation.
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[spoles]

I didn't show up email it to me if you get a chance.

tc6w8@mail.missouri.edu

[scotty young Taylor Race]

The tulips stubs are steel , not aluminum.
We do have some seeping form between the splines not the actual seal itself.

dmacke... please fill me in on your failures.. I am unaware of any failures of our products at competition..

[dmacke]

Originally posted by scotty young Taylor Race:
dmacke... please fill me in on your failures.. I am unaware of any failures of our products at competition..

Scotty, it was not a fault of engineering on the part of Taylor Race. Our team did not do a good job of meshing our team's designs with the components from Taylor Race. Our failures were tripod failures due to incorrect halfshaft lengths.

[scotty young Taylor Race]

Ahh... you had me worried dude...I thought I goofed up.
Call me if I can help ya...