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Rotarynut
02-11-2012, 12:23 PM
We are using Wilwood PS-1 Calipers, but Wilwood doesn't release any data about the pad compound for the PS-1's. In addition, we have designed our system for cast iron rotors. We were planning on running the BP-10 compound. We need to figure out how to unbond the pad material from the BP-10 backing plate, and then bond it to the backing plate for the PS-1. Has anyone done this, or maybe have any insight as to how we could accomplish this?
Rotarynut
02-11-2012, 12:23 PM
We are using Wilwood PS-1 Calipers, but Wilwood doesn't release any data about the pad compound for the PS-1's. In addition, we have designed our system for cast iron rotors. We were planning on running the BP-10 compound. We need to figure out how to unbond the pad material from the BP-10 backing plate, and then bond it to the backing plate for the PS-1. Has anyone done this, or maybe have any insight as to how we could accomplish this?
rjwoods77
02-11-2012, 01:08 PM
Just buy a brake pad that has the compound you want and then machine it down.
Adambomb
02-11-2012, 01:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rotarynut:
We are using Wilwood PS-1 Calipers, but Wilwood doesn't release any data about the pad compound for the PS-1's. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not true. I've personally linked the data on this forum at least 3 times in the last 6 years, directly from Wilwood's website. Don't have the time to dig for it again, but I can tell you that you'd be hard pressed to find a better compound than what it comes with.

I know the "search" function here seems to be a bit wonky at times, especially with old posts, but it's definitely out there. Hell, just search for ones with my user name...
Rotarynut
02-11-2012, 04:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rjwoods77:
Just buy a brake pad that has the compound you want and then machine it down. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>4

I was unable to find the information you've posted on the PS1. We have also called Wilwood and they do not have the information, nor the brake dyno. Regardless, we still need to figure out how to get the BP-10 compound on a PS1 backing plate. Has this been done before?
Adambomb
02-11-2012, 11:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rotarynut:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rjwoods77:
Just buy a brake pad that has the compound you want and then machine it down. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>4

I was unable to find the information you've posted on the PS1. We have also called Wilwood and they do not have the information, nor the brake dyno. Regardless, we still need to figure out how to get the BP-10 compound on a PS1 backing plate. Has this been done before? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm guessing whoever you talked to at Wilwood didn't know what they were talking about. Has anyone put BP-10 pads on PS-1 backing plates? Yes, Wilwood has, on the pads that come with the calipers...

And here's the info, it took about 3 minutes to find on Wilwood's site. Just click the link for "brake pads," then search by caliper, then on the PS-1, then click the link under "compounds," and it leads you to this:

Wilwood brake pad compound information (http://www.wilwood.com/BrakePads/BrakePadsApp.aspx?compound=Sintered%20Metallic)

The .pdf in the link has mu vs. temp for a wide variety of compounds, including BP-10, BP-20, and BP-30.
Rotarynut
02-12-2012, 01:24 PM
Adam, I have looked through the website and used that .pdf already. That was my first step. I then contacted Wilwood to confirm that the compound on the PS-1 because nowhere on that .pdf does it actually specify that the BP-10 compound comes on the PS-1 backing plates. They said that it is not the same compound as the BP-10. It is similar, but not the same, I quote "It should be good enough." When I asked them for cf vs mu graphs for the PS-1 compound, they said that they didn't have it.

"It should be good enough" without actual data doesn't make me feel incredibly comfortable. Hence why I'm trying to use a compound that Wilwood actually has data for.
Carrington
02-12-2012, 11:21 PM
We use Champion Friction to bond friction materials to laser cut blanks which we provide.

http://www.stillchampion.com/products/

You would probably have to obtain some un-mounted friction material, if you want that stuff exactly (they'll make whatever you specify however). I doubt there's a good way to de-bond brake pads and still have something useful.
Adambomb
02-12-2012, 11:29 PM
Hmm, interesting. I will admit that Wilwood tech support has been hit and miss, but it's pretty disappointing that all they can tell you is that it's not the same, but that it "should be good enough." Pretty lame. In the past, they've also told us that we SHOULD NOT attempt to run steel rotors with BP-10, and on the latest page they recommend steel rotors, and perhaps ironically also sell a wide variety of steel rotors.

I know they always used to come with the BP-10 compound, and I just recently saw on Summit that's what's advertised as coming with them. Only thing I can imagine is that perhaps the mu vs. T plot given is for BP-10 on CI, but that it will be different for steel, but "good enough."

FWIW we've used what appears to be an older version of that same plot for designing with steel rotors and had satisfactory results. As I recall we assumed mu was like 0.38.
rjwoods77
02-13-2012, 04:38 AM
....or you can make it easy on yourself grab some GP310/320 caliper pads in the appropriate compound and machine them down by whatever means you deem suitable. Use the hole in the top as a common origin and you'll find you can get a PS1 pad out of it.

http://www.wilwood.com/BrakePa...List.aspx?padtype=41 (http://www.wilwood.com/BrakePads/BrakePadsList.aspx?padtype=41)

http://www.wilwood.com/BrakePa...List.aspx?padtype=62 (http://www.wilwood.com/BrakePads/BrakePadsList.aspx?padtype=62)
Rotarynut
02-13-2012, 07:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Adambomb:
Hmm, interesting. I will admit that Wilwood tech support has been hit and miss, but it's pretty disappointing that all they can tell you is that it's not the same, but that it "should be good enough." Pretty lame. In the past, they've also told us that we SHOULD NOT attempt to run steel rotors with BP-10, and on the latest page they recommend steel rotors, and perhaps ironically also sell a wide variety of steel rotors.

I know they always used to come with the BP-10 compound, and I just recently saw on Summit that's what's advertised as coming with them. Only thing I can imagine is that perhaps the mu vs. T plot given is for BP-10 on CI, but that it will be different for steel, but "good enough."

FWIW we've used what appears to be an older version of that same plot for designing with steel rotors and had satisfactory results. As I recall we assumed mu was like 0.38. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Adambomb:
Yeah so the moral of this is that Wilwood doesn't know what they make their products out of...
I work at a brakes manufacturing company as well, and I find this pretty pathetic and frustrating.

As for rotor material, we are using cast iron, not steel. Which is another reason to find a way to use the BP-10.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rjwoods77:
....or you can make it easy on yourself grab some GP310/320 caliper pads in the appropriate compound and machine them down by whatever means you deem suitable. Use the hole in the top as a common origin and you'll find you can get a PS1 pad out of it.

http://www.wilwood.com/BrakePa...List.aspx?padtype=41 (http://www.wilwood.com/BrakePads/BrakePadsList.aspx?padtype=41)

http://www.wilwood.com/BrakePa...List.aspx?padtype=62 (http://www.wilwood.com/BrakePads/BrakePadsList.aspx?padtype=62) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

rjwoods77

That was my original plan. We even purchased a set since they're only like $40. Problem is, when we received them, we found out that the hole at the top is a lot larger that the PS-1 and rather oval. So the locating pin won't really work too hot, unless we come up with some goofy pin design that works for them. Sleeves maybe?

Any thoughts?