stock motor in competition

[URracing]

2001 Honda CBR 600 F4i

Quick n simple. Will the motor get us through the competition on stock components or should we be looking to upgrade? We have an AEM system that was purchased back in 05 so we plan to try it out once we get the motor mounted and running with the stock ECU first.

I know some teams chop the oil pan and run sumps in order to lower CG but is this necessary just to make it through to the end of the endurance? In realizing a bike's oil goes to the bottom of the pan when turning and a car's oil goes to side to side, is it highly recommended to pull the pan and do some baffling work, or do we bother? Even though we've had a car in comp way back in 01 with a Honda 500 VT, this will be a first year car for us since none of us have competed in FSAE before so we're still learning the ropes.

Thanks,

[URracing]

2001 Honda CBR 600 F4i

Quick n simple. Will the motor get us through the competition on stock components or should we be looking to upgrade? We have an AEM system that was purchased back in 05 so we plan to try it out once we get the motor mounted and running with the stock ECU first.

I know some teams chop the oil pan and run sumps in order to lower CG but is this necessary just to make it through to the end of the endurance? In realizing a bike's oil goes to the bottom of the pan when turning and a car's oil goes to side to side, is it highly recommended to pull the pan and do some baffling work, or do we bother? Even though we've had a car in comp way back in 01 with a Honda 500 VT, this will be a first year car for us since none of us have competed in FSAE before so we're still learning the ropes.

Thanks,

[Erich Ohlde]

we have ran a completely unmodified F4i since our 2002 car. We have completed all events with that engine with no engine problems. You will lose oil pressure under heavy lateral loads and heavy braking but since the engine is under almost no load at these conditions there is very little damage done to the internal engine bearings. our 2005 car received the most on-track time (two full autox seasons) and it still runs like a champ with no rebuilds.

[murpia]

You won't get many powertrain points in Design if you compete with a completely standard engine with no attempt to address the installation issues of fitting a 20mm restricted, fuel injected motorcycle engine into a car.

As a minimum I would recommend a design study of the intake system and a design study of the oil system. Something you can actually present at competition. What you actually implement and how reliable it is, will be up to your team to decide / achieve.

Regards, Ian

[cmeissen]

Since you are a first year team, I would definetly leave it stock (we didn't ever have any problems running the same engine stock). You will benefit much more from getting your car done and having more testing, tuning, and driver training time then impressing the judges with a dry sump system or something else.

[exFSAE]

Stock motor will do just fine.

You won't get as many design points, but you will score heaps more points in the end over teams with heavily modified engines that grenade...

[moose]

its ok to run stock, but you're probably going to need to modify the intake and maybe exhaust to fit the restricted setup/car

[Chris Boyden]

you can always add more oil at the expense of weight and additional windage losses (possibly)...not quantified though. But it can prevent the pickup from being starved due to g's.

A simple test is to monitor the oil pressure on the skidpad?? does it lose pressure?

[Biggy72]

Our f4i was completely stock in 2006. With a pretty bad intake and exhaust, and after putting on a new muffler after we couldn't pass sound we were still able to 62hp on the dyno down there. Not great, but we were one of the fastest cars during the endurance. We also used too much fuel, but we weren't really worried about it until afterward. That motor is still together and running as our backup. We used it some last year to get everything broken in on the car and hopefully it will be running this weekend again, but with a new ecu.

I did see a team our first year running a completely stock intake, exhaust, wiring harness and everything. They just built a box around the stock throttle bodies and made a 20mm restrictor off of it. It ran pretty well, but I'm sure it could have made significantly more power.

[Brett Neale]

After munching a big-end bearing on our second-year-running F4i just before comp last year, I would HIGHLY recommend doing work on the sump before putting the stock engine in a car. It needs at the very least a horizontal baffle to prevent oil sloshing away from the pickup under lateral load. Maybe all you will need is an ally plate with a hole for the pickup, a hole for the vent, and some wide bend-down cutout type things to let oil down into the sump. Take the sump off, sandwich the plate between the engine and sump.

Other than that, a stock motor is all well and good for this competition. We've never done any internal work to any of our engines, and we've been getting some nice numbers out of ours.

[1975BMW2002]

It really isn't that hard to put some baffles in the oil pan. The judges will expect the oil problem to be addressed, and not doing it will cost you in design.

However... As a first year team, I'd say that building a knowledge base is the most important thing to do. You are not going to win. You likely won't even do well. Sorry http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif but that is the unfortunate truth. This takes a while to figure out, and having a car compete in as many events as possible will add to your knowledge base. (And help you finish better.) So spend your time on other more important things that you haven't figured out yet. (If you don't know what these things are, they will show their ugly head soon enough.) Then next year, or the following year, when you have the other stuff figured out, go back and really address the oil issue.

But then again... welding a few pieces of metal the the bottom of the pan won't take too long... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif decisions decisions.