CMM of different engines interest thread

[Agent4573]

Ok, so this was just brough back up and people always seem interested in it. Last year after competition our team had a friend that works at GM give us a tour of the facilities, along the way we met one of the engineers that does 3D scanning and modeling of parts/cars for GM. The idea was brought up to do something like the tire testing consortium only for 3d CAD models of engines, so this is a very preliminary interest sheet. If your interested, please reply with your school name and what engines you would like to see.

[Agent4573]

Ok, so this was just brough back up and people always seem interested in it. Last year after competition our team had a friend that works at GM give us a tour of the facilities, along the way we met one of the engineers that does 3D scanning and modeling of parts/cars for GM. The idea was brought up to do something like the tire testing consortium only for 3d CAD models of engines, so this is a very preliminary interest sheet. If your interested, please reply with your school name and what engines you would like to see.

[Gabriel Descamps]

That´s a great idea. How much would that cost? I think we could be in for the good ol´ CBR600 F4i and the RR, depending on the price, of course. Keep the info flowing!

Cheers

Gabriel Descamps
Team Leader
Universidad Simón BolÃ*var

http://www.formulasae.grupos.usb.ve
formulasae@usb.ve

[Gabriel Descamps]

damn it, double signature http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

[Cement Legs]

Yes. This would be nice to have... What a time saver it would be. We are currently using the F4i '03.

[Erick Scarpone]

Yamaha YZF R6 2004, "Universidad Central de Venezuela"

[Pavan Dendi]

F4i and the 03-05 R6

[raska]

It's something I've made a few calls about getting done, but there isn't much locally.

2004 Kawasaki ZX6-RR. Probably one of a few at best.

[Jersey Tom]

F4i.

[Rob.C]

would have to say a yamaha 2000 R6!

Uni of Birmingham UK

[TG]

There are plenty of places that have this capability. Just look for anyone that does reverse-engineering. You can shop around and see who would be willing to give the best deal possible.

Might be interested if the price is decent. We use an RR.

[Dr Claw]

we got an F4i scanned by lear in 04 and all we got was a point cloud that takes all night to open and 15 minutes to rotate. nearly unusable IMHO.

all i'd ask for from this 'consortium' is mounting dim's, and drive sprocket plane. i'd also include exhaust port centerpoints and mounting plane, and intake port centerpoints and mounting plane. if you want to get extra fancy, shift and clutch point/height/planes as well. i'd recomend takeing all of these measurments without the oil pan on as well, it'd be a good datum plane for measurement

thats the barebones usefull info for an engine, all other extremes of the engine can have a tolerance of 5-10 mm and thus dont need expensive time spent getting them CMM'd.

also, if the above gets ignored, my vote goes for a full point cloud of the WWU V8 http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

[CMURacing - Prometheus]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dr Claw:
we got an F4i scanned by lear in 04 and all we got was a point cloud that takes all night to open and 15 minutes to rotate. nearly unusable IMHO.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

if this was your problem, then they didn't do post-processing on the data. we had a phd student here who did the post-processing algorithm for laser digitizers, used in taking clay models of cars and digitizing them. its pretty cool to watch the movie of the point cloud being transformed into smooth surfaces.

having said that, depending on cost, we'd be interested in an f4i model.

[LSU Dave]

F4i

Louisiana State University

[Rear]

f4i, rr, zx-6r, y6 in that order.

[Matt Gignac]

YZF-600r

Thing is, there are little changes in mounting points from year to year for a lot of these engines (i know for R6 and yzf600 in particular)

So we may be looking at a whole lot of engines.

Matt Gignac
McGill Racing Team

[Kyle Jeffries]

Canondale 432 http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Erick Scarpone]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dr Claw:
we got an F4i scanned by lear in 04 and all we got was a point cloud that takes all night to open and 15 minutes to rotate. nearly unusable IMHO.

all i'd ask for from this 'consortium' is mounting dim's, and drive sprocket plane. i'd also include exhaust port centerpoints and mounting plane, and intake port centerpoints and mounting plane. if you want to get extra fancy, shift and clutch point/height/planes as well. i'd recomend takeing all of these measurments without the oil pan on as well, it'd be a good datum plane for measurement

thats the barebones usefull info for an engine, all other extremes of the engine can have a tolerance of 5-10 mm and thus dont need expensive time spent getting them CMM'd.

also, if the above gets ignored, my vote goes for a full point cloud of the WWU V8 http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So if we dont have like a really good super computer, we wont take as nmuch advantage from these model??? We really would like all the places were a house comes in or out of the engine, the mounting brakets, not much lovers of high resolution detail, if makes the computer run so slow, can it be done and yhem modifing the resolution? We would love 2004 Yamaha YZF R6.
So anyone keeping track of price, were to do this? keep this post alive!!

[GTmule]

Erick,

The CMM models are reasonably manageable when they've been turned into surface data, it's just when it's a huge point cloud that they're a pain to deal with. Ostensibly whoever does the CMM'ing will have a way to turn a bunch points into surfaces. I agree with the others, though, the model would just need to be basic, but *accurate* measurements of all potential mounting points, as well as inlets and outlets (air, oil, water) would be key.

F4i, for us (Louisville)

[Buckingham]

The best thing to do is get both a CMM model for things like planes/bolt locations/ etc. (where you will be mating parts to your engine in your solid model) and to get an optical scan surface model for checking engine cover clearances, etc. Leave the high res model supressed when don't need it.

Don't expect to run the engine you get scanned again, many places like to cover it in a fine white powder.

PS, ever notice that some engines fit just a little differently into the car? Better scan a bunch of engines and pick the one closest to "nominal" to use for the model. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[boxsterb1]

04' cbr600 f4i please

[raska]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TG:
Might be interested if the price is decent. We use an RR.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Which manufacturer?

[TG]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by raska:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TG:
Might be interested if the price is decent. We use an RR.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Which manufacturer? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, it's a Honda 600RR.

[malcolm]

f4i

most interested in mounting points, and cg if possible

[malcolm]

oh, yeah. Stanford U.

[TG]

I talked to the profs in charge of the PRISM lab (http://prism.asu.edu/) here at ASU and we are going to scan in our engine. Apparently the post-processing isn't that hard and we can do it ourself with a little help from them. Hopefully it will all be done in the next couple of weeks. I'll let you guys know how it turned out.

I asked them and if any of you are interested in getting something done like this, it can be done for a charge. Just need to get a feel of how many would be interested in something like this to gauge how much it would be. Also I would need to figure out how to get donor motors (no road rash or anything like that) to do it for other motors. So please let me know. Thanks.

[Agent4573]

Sorry I kinda let this drop for a bit, some things came up. The guy from East Coast Metrology called me the other day and told me that they would be interested in givin us a large discount because they would love to get thier name out to the SAE crowd. The way I figure it right now we could easily do this for 150 dollars per team, which would get you access to all of the engines we get CMM'ed. Any extra money would go toward getting future models done. I know its been a while but last check in was 17 teams for 6 different engines.

I have no problem taking a weekend and driving around the east to pick up and deliver these engines, but we need to figure out who if anyone has an engine that we can use to get this done. The engines will still be totally usable afterwards because its goign to be done with a touch probe, hence no crappy white powder used in the surface scan. Rutgers can donate an 01' R6 engine to the project, so I need the following engines loaned for about a week or two while they do the scans:

Honda CBR600
Honda F4i(same as the 600RR right?)
2004 R6
2004 ZX6r
YZF600r

They seemed really interested in doing this for us and we can probably talk the price down a bit after everything is all settled, but I would say no more than 150 dollars per team.

[Fred R.]

My team needs the 2003 CBR600-RR (the f4i and 600RR are not the same)

we could possibly lend the engine. Need more details on where this place is and how to get it there.

[TG]

We're taking our engine into the lab tomorrow to get scanned. After post processing, i'll try to post a pic or two up. We'll see how it turns out...

With regards to the engines that would probably need to be scanned:

Honda CBR600F4i
Honda CBR600RR (I know '05 head was modified, but probably just slightly internally)
Yamaha YZF-R6
Yamaha YZF600R (Is this engine going to be updated anytime soon?)
Yamaha YZ450F/Yamaha WR450F (I don't know if anybody uses any of the other singles?)
Kawasaki ZX-6RR
Suzuki GSX-R600

[Agent4573]

The place is about 20 minutes north of boston. If anyone wants to lend an engine anywhere in or around the east coast, i wouldn't have a problem picking up and delivering the engine when we were done w/ it. Since you guys are way out on the west coast, you could probably ship it here, and after we were done w/ it we could ship it back to you. Not sure how expensive that would be though.