To select the ECM

[Brokenrider]

Hi guys.
There are some ECM for my car. for ex PE, Motec, Haltech. But allmost teams don't use the Haltech. What is reason?
www.haltech.com (http://www.haltech.com)

JAEHYUN MO
KOokmin RAcing
Kookmin university.

[Brokenrider]

Hi guys.
There are some ECM for my car. for ex PE, Motec, Haltech. But allmost teams don't use the Haltech. What is reason?
www.haltech.com (http://www.haltech.com)

JAEHYUN MO
KOokmin RAcing
Kookmin university.

[jrickert]

We have used Haltech in the past. Its pretty simple. Hardest part is getting all your settings right. Ignitor and trigger settings are critical. The haltech ecus use external ignitors and if you use the wrong ignitors or configure them incorrectly you will fry them.

[wweissin]

Other ECUs to mention and look at are Vipec http://www.vi-pec.com/. The V44 is a very good ecu for the price (~$1500 USD). 5d fuel tables, Flat shifting, antilag, launch control and individual cyl knock control.

Then there is what I consider to to be one of the best ECUs for our series, the Cosworth/Pectel SQ6. It is one of the most flexible ECUs on the market with plently of advanced features which include restrictor based boost control, launch control, gear based traction control, 12 fully configurable analog inputs, 10 digital inputs, 12 injector outputs,and 8 ignition outputs. All unused injector and ignition outputs as well as digital inputs can be used as analog inputs. It also has standard 1MB of logging at rates of up to 2Kh. This makes it a great deal if you want to log you suspension as well as all of you other engine functions.

[Kirby]

I've used my fair share:

"Dragonfire"
Wolf 3D v4 and Wolf V500
GEMS
and Motec

Gotta say, you pay for it but the Motec is a good unit. They have some new models coming out this year as well.

[JeffreyH]

While I'd love the opportunity to use a Cosworth (aka Pi) ECU, I really don't think that's feasible in FSAE without direct support from them.

[wweissin]

What do you consider direct support? Are you talking about tech support or purchasing support?

[JeffreyH]

Purchasing - that's a pretty damn expensive ECU. I don't doubt it's worth that, I'm impressed to see an FPGA being used and the feature set is pretty amazing (so many configurable inputs!), but I know we couldn't really come up with the purchase price for one of them, let alone a pair if we want to continue having a runnable car and an engine on the dyno at the same time.

But hey, I can dream right? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[wweissin]

In all reality depending on you set up now how much more is it? Add to the cost of your ECU a logging dash and your very close if not over the cost of a SQ6. And you wouldn't necessarily need 2 ECUs since the SQ6 has for user selectable fuel and ignition maps. So unless the car and engine dyno are running at the same time it would be a non issue.

[JeffreyH]

It's not a problem of maps, that's easy to change anyway. It's more the problem of "oh crap we can't run the car today, the engine is running on the dyno". Or "Bah, we can't run up our second engine for testing as the other one is at the other campus with the ECU being used". Or trying to run multiple cars when doing driver training.

I agree that a logging dash would bump the cost up, especially with feature upgrades (eg Motecs). However running an EDL3 datalogger (or equivalent) with a separate ECU is better, as you get many more analogue inputs, way more logging memory, etc. The SQ6 alone would not be sufficient for what we run - we use our EDL2 pretty heavily with every analogue input and many other ones used.

As I said, I'd like to run an SQ6 but I'd be surprised if many FSAE teams had the budget for one. If Cosworth offered a FSAE discount it might be viable however - any ideas if they do?

[wweissin]

I must confess. I work at Apex Speed Technology here in the states. apexspeedtech.com (http://www.apexspeedtech.com). I must first state that I am not trying to sell this ecu or anything of that nature, just letting people know of some of the less well known ECUs on the market. With that said I do not know of a FSAE discount directly from Cosworth but that is not to say it couldn't happen. One of their Men will be here at the end of the month and it may be something we can discuss.

[VFR750R]

Just read "How to Tune and Modify Engine Management Systems" by Motorbooks Workshop.

They quoted Dave Darge of Powertrain Electronics as saying-

"GM OEM controllers are capable of performing on almost all engine applications. This includes throttle body injection, port fuel injection, up to 8 injectors or with GM auxiliary injector driver 12 low impedence injectors, batch fire or sequential, single coil or coil-on-plug and electronic transmission control. All of the GM controllers offer OBD-1 type of diagnostics with a port for a scanner. The last time i compared functions for a customer quote to a leading aftermarket controller the GM unit offered 56 additional features compared to the aftermarket unit. The customer decided on the GM controller for best reliability and functionality. At this time the GM controller is far above the capabilities of any aftermarket controller except when triggering a nitrous system or handling functions like multiple rpm limiters."
"In fact, I cannot name any function limits that are beyond the scope of GM parameters or tables up to 9000RPM."

So the question is whether the GM ECM can handle above 9000 RPM. If it can, then it seems like a good candidate over the aftermarket options. The largest benefits to me would be going to the local autoparts store and being able to get replacement sensors for pennies on the dollar compared to performance or 'racing' sensors. And going to the junkyard and pulling half a dozen spare ECM's for the price of one Motec or equivalent. The cons are obviously learning to work on a system that was not supposed to be 'worked' on, but there are a lot of software options out there, and a ton of data and people out there with experience working on them for corvettes, camaros, trucks, etc. I imagine the turbo Saturn Sky ECM would be a great candidate for a turbo or NA 4 cylinder FSAE car.

[JeffreyH]

You're right, but I don't think they have the degree of flexibility the aftermarket ones offer. For example, do they output a datastream of sensor values which can be used to feed into the DAQ system? How much flexibility is there in tuning them? In my (admitedly limited) experience, I've yet to see a software package for reflashing OE ecus which is comparable to aftermarket ones. Happy to be proved wrong though.

I think the best way to select an ECU for your car is to work out what features you need, what you'd like, what budget you have and what the software is like. You'll be spending a lot of time getting acquainted with the software package so it's worth spending extra for one that's nice to use. So basically, do what you should be doing in any engineering design situation; selecting the most suitable tool for the job given all relevant parameters.

We use the Autronic SM4 as it's basically the best compromise between features and cost that we could find with local technical support. It's not as flash as the Motec (sometimes the software can be counterintuitive) but it's pretty close to the Motec line in general, for a much lower cost.

[VFR750R]

Obviously the GM ecm won't be for everyone, just offering it up as a low cost (though potentially high labor) solution.

I've heard good things about the Autronic.

[Jon @ Electromotive, Inc.]

THe only problem with the GM ecu is is that it is likely you are all talking about the MEFI-4. By the time you bought a MEFI-4 with the software to tune the ECU, you have spent about the same as any other decent aftermarket ECU.

More importantly, the MEFI-4 is out of production and the MEFI-5 is not (currently) available in an end-user tunable form.

IF you have a way to tune an ECU availbe in a street car that allows the flexibilty needed for an FSAE application, more power to you (in fact I think that would be rather neat). But I'm not sure that kind of flexibilty is available in the production vehicle ECUs.

[cheme]

Megasquirt!!!

[Marshall.Hagen]

Also take a look at DTA S-series ECU’s.

When I was at WWU we used S80’s on both 2007 and 2008 cars. It is the least expensive package that has CAN output (great for connecting to an external datalogger), 4-wheel speed traction control (w/in-cabin aggression adjustment), full sequential fuel, and onboard datalogging. The included FSAE F4i map is decent enough to start with, has built in presets for the Honda CBR cam and crank sensors, and DTA offers a generous FSAE discount. It also supports an alcohol sensor, so you can run E85 or regular gasoline, or any combination between.

http://www.dtafast.co.uk/S_80_PRO.htm

[Adambomb]

For the GM ECM, this used to be a really good resource:

DIY EFI (http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi/)

In fact, if I remember right, they used to have some sort of converter to connect the EPROM socket directly to a standard serial port for on-the-flying tuning and easy flashing (as compared to the old-school erase with UV light and re-flash with a chip burning machine method). If I'm not mistaken they even sold a complete universal kit based on GM parts (including high pressure fuel system) that was something like $1100.

I think this was the same place, although from the looks of things it has sort of fallen apart (most likely due to the recent popularity of MegaSquirt). Granted, this is all based on late '80s hardware, but the last time I bought one of these ECMs a couple years ago it was like $80 at O'Reilly's.

As for those "high dollar" sensors, why bother? I don't recall ever seeing a decent aftermarket ECM that required them, and all had some sort of option to calibrate for any sensor (or usually a plug-and-play option for cheapo late '80s GM sensors). Of course then you have to play the "application game" with the guy at the parts counter; just tell him they're for an '89 Bonneville (or a '92 IROC-Z if you're feeling sporty http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif).