Can state side graduates get jobs in Europe?

[RBbugBITme]

I'm heading into my Senior year and I plan on starting to send out resumes in September to a lot of companies involved in racing and a few teams. I actually have a longer list of European based teams than I do here in the states so I was wondering if anyone had a feel for how that situation might play out? Are my chances cut in half just because I'm on the other side of the pond?

[RBbugBITme]

I'm heading into my Senior year and I plan on starting to send out resumes in September to a lot of companies involved in racing and a few teams. I actually have a longer list of European based teams than I do here in the states so I was wondering if anyone had a feel for how that situation might play out? Are my chances cut in half just because I'm on the other side of the pond?

[J.R.]

I'm working an enginerring job in Germany right now, not one with racing, but automotive research at a university.

I have another friend who applied for a job with BMW for this summer, and they rejected him because he wasn't fluent in German, so I would say that if you don't know the language of the team that you want to work for, that might hurt your chances more than your location.

However, I have been working on the FSAE car here in Darmstadt this summer, and most of the team speaks damn good english, so I would say that knowing the language would be a definate plus, but that not knowing it wont necessarily disqualify you, so you might as well give it a shot!

[exFSAE]

Back a few years ago I coulda sworn I heard of a Canadian FSAE guy making his way to the Ferrari F1 team. That said, if you're trying to get into F1.. good luck. If you know people, and/or have specialized degrees or knowledge or experience in aerodynamics etc you MIGHT have a shot.

Keep in mind, just emailing companies unsolicited will get you nowhere. Autosport.com has euro-based race job postings very frequently, a number of which are in F1. The trend is pretty consistently either trackside aerodynamicist, wind tunnel tech, or design engineer "already established and experienced at the F1 level."

Getting a job with a Nascar team might be possible depending on their hiring needs and your experience / talents / luck.

Try every level of racing you'd be interested in. Nascar, IRL, Atlantics, ALMS, blah blah blah. Sometimes you get lucky and someone's looking for a DAQ guy. Though.. they also generally start to hire in January-February.. starting in June/July after school (in the middle of a race season) is more difficult.

There are other ways of being "involved" with race without being on a team.

Get as MUCH experience as you possibly can your senior year. Doesn't hurt to get experience in DAQ (one of the most common entry level jobs.. which can then lead to junior race engineer or strategist, and then onward) and Aero. You'd be amazed though.. after long long years in FSAE and having a heap of practical, applicable knowledge.. you can potentially learn more in your first 2-3 days or weeks at the "for reals" level than in 2-3 years of FSAE.

[RBbugBITme]

Of course if I see an opening for an entry level position on an F1 team I'll throw my name in the pile but I don't have high expectations. I'm shooting for F1 and that will hopefully land me somewhere around ALMS, world rally, or at a company like Elan Motorsports.

I've stepped down from leading the team to build my engineering experience. I'll be designing the new car's chassis and suspension for the 09 rule changes pretty much entirely by myself which includes tire data analysis and I run the DAQ. So hopefully this gets me something...

[js10coastr]

If you're just out of getting your BS and don't have a work permit, you're pretty much SOL. Keep in mind that there are probably 100 people just as qualified as you on that side of the pond and the teams wouldn't have to mess with the visas and such.

Although the rejection letter from McLaren is nice enough to frame.

[RBbugBITme]

Haha thats why I started considering grad school. But I'm also thinking I would be better off getting a job here for a few years and then going back to grad school and maybe shoot for the dream jobs later.

[JR @ CFS]

I'm not sure about other countries in Europe, but I know that US citizens getting jobs in the UK is pretty difficult. Usually you need a job offer to get a visa, but also, usually to get a job offer, you need a visa. Not only that, the company needs to prove without a doubt that they cannot find an equally qualified/suitable person for the job and have to have you. Usually, what applies in the UK, applies across other EU countries.

A fellow FSAE'er on our team tried everything he could think of, ancestry entitlement included (he was of Irish/British decent i.e. grandparents) and they were still having none of it.

[RBbugBITme]

http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif Thats the kind of stuff I'm looking to hear. It certainly narrows the job search for me.

Thanks everyone.

[JR @ CFS]

well, there are certain countries in "Europe" who aren't in the EU, therefore the rules are different. Switzerland is one where the rules are the same for everyone...and if memory serves me well, there is a little team based somewhere called "Hinwil" not a million miles away from Zurich. I think they are called BMW Sauber? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif There are plenty of other GT and lower formula teams based there, which is quite funny for a country that banned all forms of motorsport since 1955!

Hope that bit of info helps.

[RBbugBITme]

I did not think about that, thanks.

[Parker]

I have always wondered how the visa situation worked in the EU. Not really needing to work for a race team, but I am interested in moving to Germany in the future once I have a bit more work experience and more professional certification.

Getting on with BMW manufacturing here in the States would be an ideal stepping stone, but then the fluency thing gets in the way.

[Klementina]

technicly if a company in the EU wants to hire a foreigner they need to proove that noone else from the EU can do the job.That being said most engineering companies/raceteams wont have a problem prooving that if they want you.As for F1 i know americans in it...also if you are looking into good grad schools check out Cranfield University(UK)...i'm goign there next year for MSc in CFD but they also have an amazing motorsports program...

[HenningO]

Funny thing, if the question was "Can European graduates get jobs in the US?"

The answers would have been pretty much the same... (replace EU with US)

[RBbugBITme]

Wow Klementina, Cranfield looks great! Congrats.

[Klementina]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HenningO:
Funny thing, if the question was "Can European graduates get jobs in the US?"

The answers would have been pretty much the same... (replace EU with US) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

actually...not quite true...its way easier for europeans to get a job over here...i'm from the EU but did my undergrad in the US and i havent had a problem finding a job here(unless DOD)

[Andy]

I would agree with Klementina...look at graduate Universities in the UK as a good stepping stone into European motorsport. I went to Cranfield two years ago after doing my BS/FSAE at Clemson University and after having worked for Elan Motorsports during my "free time" while at Clemson. After working with Red Bull F1 for my thesis at Cranfield I ended up staying in England to work in F1. It's much easier for them to do the work to give you a visa if you're already over there studying. You've got to work hard to make the contacts though. Go to the MSEC put on by SAE each time it's on and get some practical experience with teams/companies outside of FSAE as well. I also highly recommend University of Southampton if you're looking at aero. It's not cheap going to school in the UK as a US citizen, but I found it well worth it. Hope this helps.

[RBbugBITme]

Did you go to Cranfield right out of Clemson or did you land a job first and work for a few years?

[René]

Hey Andy, good to hear from you. I'm Venezuelan/European and, on my case, I did the Cranfield Motorsport course and ended up in the US performing 7 Post Rig tests. My point is that grad schools besides giving you technical skills, are the best place to make new contacts and meet potential employers. Doing a thesis for the course allows these employers to evaluate you and, if you work hard and do a good job, it is quite possible to stay for the long run. It worked for Andy, it worked for me and most of the students. If F1 is your goal you have to be there, sending you CV by email is just not enough. If you prove you are worth, the Visa won't be a problem anywhere. Wish you all the best. Rene

[Andy]

I went to Cranfield straight from Clemson, but I had been working at Elan Motorsports (Panoz) during the summers and holidays while at Clemson. If you can get some experience while at University I think it's better to then go straight to somewhere like Cranfield.

[Klementina]

Hi Andyhttp://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif...when i was talkign about americans in F1 i was refering to you...lol...

[RacingManiac]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by exFSAE:
Back a few years ago I coulda sworn I heard of a Canadian FSAE guy making his way to the Ferrari F1 team. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As far as I know the guy is still at Ferrari, he was Rubens' electronics engineer when we met him in 2004(he happens to be my friend's brother's friend), he went on to be Massa's electronics engineer now...

AFAIK he literally just dropped his resume by to Ferrari and he ended up working for them....

[RBbugBITme]

I know this is dead but how did he get a visa? Is it easier for Canadiens than it is for US residents or were they just willing to work with him?