Reviving Lead-Acid Batteries (EDTA?)

[markocosic]

Anybody have experience with reviving lead-acid car batteries?

I've got a type 095 (12V, 70Ah, 640 cold-crank amps SAE) here that came out of a car left with the lights on for 6 weeks this winter hols. (my car - doh! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif )

After jump-starting it'd hold charge to start a 2.0 I4 engined car for about a week, but no more. It got swapped, but I'd like to use the old one as a starter/engine management system battery for fsae dyno work if possible.

Anybody have experience with EDTA? Other suggestions?

http://www.deathstar.org/~flash/edta.html (http://www.deathstar.org/%7Eflash/edta.html)
http://faq.f650.com/FAQS/BatteryFAQ.htm#EDTA

[markocosic]

Anybody have experience with reviving lead-acid car batteries?

I've got a type 095 (12V, 70Ah, 640 cold-crank amps SAE) here that came out of a car left with the lights on for 6 weeks this winter hols. (my car - doh! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif )

After jump-starting it'd hold charge to start a 2.0 I4 engined car for about a week, but no more. It got swapped, but I'd like to use the old one as a starter/engine management system battery for fsae dyno work if possible.

Anybody have experience with EDTA? Other suggestions?

http://www.deathstar.org/~flash/edta.html (http://www.deathstar.org/%7Eflash/edta.html)
http://faq.f650.com/FAQS/BatteryFAQ.htm#EDTA

[Superfast Matt McCoy]

The problem is the Lead-Sulphate on the battery plates. Just connect your battery to a 120V wall outlet for a couple minutes. It will either burn off the lead-sulphate or explode.

Good luck!

[Parker]

Wow, I could see only one problem with that and it contains the word "explode" http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Wesley]

Don't forget eye protection. Battery acid can be hazardous.

And if Chuck Norris taught me one thing about explosions, its that they are acceptable visual effects to include in any situation.

No birthday, wedding, or Bar'Mitzvah is complete without at least six flaming explosions.

[PatClarke]

Marko, find a 'pulse mode' battery charger. These will recover most sulphated betteries, especially those nagging Calcium Hybrid batteries so beloved of the car makers today.

DO NOT connect it to an A/C powerpoing, either 120V or 240V.

If your battery charger has a 24V setting, then a minute or two at 24V wouldnt hurt. You need enough voltage pressure to get through the sulphate resistance on the plates and get charging happening.

In EVERY CASE, be ware of the hydrogen gasses coming off a battery while charging. An arc caused while you connect or disconnect will not only destroy the battery, it will also cause you to need a shower, a new set of clothes and probably a trip to a skin specialist.

Keep safe

Pat

[markocosic]

It'll live again - pulse charging seems to have brought it back to 30Ah with a sensible terminal voltage (originally 70Ah) http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

It did spit a fair amount of electrolyte out mind, with no apparent settling of the levels even days later. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Have seen batteries zapped with welders to bring 'em back to life, but also saw a good friend at the local scrappy/breaker yard blinded after getting belted in the face by the top of a battery, several chunks of lead and a respectable amount of acid before cracking his head on the bonnet in surprise and laying cold-out on the floor far enough away from help and long enough to have destroyed his eyesight. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Skin doesn't fare too badly, but still no thanks to the wall outlets... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[VFR750R]

I've got the cureall for dead batteries. Here's what you do: Load your battery into your trunk, drive to the nearest auto parts store. Place old battery on counter and add $40. Works everytime.

[Bill Kunst]

I was wondering when someone would come to their senses. Doing stuff all half-assed to revive a piece of shit battery seems like a waste of time and slightly dangerous. I don't care how small the team budget is, but I am sure that a couple of guys could skip the weekend of drinking to chip in for a suitable battery.
Bill

[Wesley]

So its half assed to try and save 50 bucks?

Besides plugging it into a wall, which was an insincere suggestion, there were other good suggestions to rejuvenate a possibly still-good battery, without endangering your life.

If you can do it, and it works, its not half-assery. It only is if it sort of works. Just because its cheaper, and possibly easier than getting a new one doesn't make it less of an option.

[Bill Kunst]

Yeah, but...
You still are looking at a $50 min for a cheap pulse device, not charger. 80 to 100 bucks fora charger. And if you have any type of deal with the local parts store, you could buy two batteries for this price. Not to mention, you probably alreay have a charger, it just isn't going to shake the sulfation loose. Anyway, buy a new battery. The likelihood that the battery is going to be reliable for you is very low.
Bill

[markocosic]

The FSAE car battery is a spunky new battery and the road car also has a spunky new battery. $100US at UK retail prices though http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif (convert at USD = GBP then add a bit for luck generally works well http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif )

This is a shonky old 70Ah jobbie for use on the testbed only, and if battering it with a borrowed charger gets it a year before it's junked then why not for $0... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

What's the consensus on these (http://www.cosic.org.uk/misc/Metro%20Upright/) scrapyard uprights for an engine->rolling road adapter? Using a bucket and an old radiator from a Land-Rover that's lying about for cooling? I'm a fan of Pat's "When the only tool you have is a hammer, every bolt looks like a nail" quote - in that you make do with what you have or can reasonably acquire. (Heath Robinson lives on...)

[Superfast Matt McCoy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">What's the consensus on these (http://www.cosic.org.uk/misc/Metro%20Upright/) scrapyard uprights for an engine-&gt;rolling road adapter? Using a bucket and an old radiator from a Land-Rover that's lying about for cooling? I'm a fan of Pat's "When the only tool you have is a hammer, every bolt looks like a nail" quote - in that you make do with what you have or can reasonably acquire. (Heath Robinson lives on...) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that quote, adapted from Abraham Maslow, is an observation that people often use tools they are familiar with to solve problems that cannot be solved with those tools, or that would be better suited to other solutions. I always thought Maslow's hammer had a negative connotation.

I figure you either need a better solution or a better quote to describe it.

[PatClarke]

Quote Matt.... "I think that quote, adapted from Abraham Maslow, is an observation that people often use tools they are familiar with to solve problems that cannot be solved with those tools, or that would be better suited to other solutions".

That, Matt, is exactly what it is intended to convey!

Pat

[Wesley]

But do we not construct unfamiliar tools from those which we are familiar with? How is it that we will progress technologically if we are familiar with every tool, yet there is not one sufficient for the task at hand?

Was not the first chisel constructed by a hammer?

I believe it was Henry Ford who said "He who finds he needs a tool has already paid for it"

Maslow was full of crap.

[markocosic]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Superfast Matt McCoy:
I think that quote, adapted from Abraham Maslow, is an observation that people often use tools they are familiar with to solve problems that cannot be solved with those tools, or that would be better suited to other solutions. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting quote - I'd never have thought to look at it from the 'tool' side rather than the 'problem' side! I'll go sit in the corner with my blacksmith's hat on... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

You see it all the time with more than one person on the same problem - to measure the distance to an object the EE wants to use an ultrasonic distance meter, the MechE wants to use a bumper bar, and the CompSci wants to use timers and rotary encoders for example - don't think I'd ever stopped to consciously think why though. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif