Examples of FSAE cars with side-engines

[albino_insect]

I found this picture of a car with a side engine and I was wondering what schools have used a side engine design and at what times?
http://www.engr.usask.ca/~sae/fsae/objects/compet/u_of_a.jpg

[albino_insect]

I found this picture of a car with a side engine and I was wondering what schools have used a side engine design and at what times?
http://www.engr.usask.ca/~sae/fsae/objects/compet/u_of_a.jpg

[rjwoods77]

search it. thread about it probably 3 weeks ago.

[mtg]

UMR took one to competition in 1989. It looked a little more circle track than road racer, though.

[K. Werkley]

If you look on the Competitions page under the FSAE-A thread you will find plenty of pics of one. Awesome looking car, not sure what school though, couldn't find any names on it.

[rjwoods77]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K. Werkley:
If you look on the Competitions page under the FSAE-A thread you will find plenty of pics of one. Awesome looking car, not sure what school though, couldn't find any names on it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

deakin

[andrewd]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rob Woods:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K. Werkley:
If you look on the Competitions page under the FSAE-A thread you will find plenty of pics of one. Awesome looking car, not sure what school though, couldn't find any names on it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

deakin </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes, about the only team to do it right

[albino_insect]

Thanks guys. Seems odd that despite being really the only team utilizing the design well they are going to be sticking with it in the future. Making it really pretty would be tough, but I think it could be done.

[Jersey Tom]

Might move your CG considerably to one side... making for some interesting cornerweighting and load transfer issues..

[Dan G]

Deakin did an incredible job on fit and finish...

http://evilallianceracing.com/ipw-web/gallery/albums/FSAE-AUS05/Sideways_in_the_Deakin_Sidewinder.sized.jpg

More pics here:

http://evilallianceracing.com/ipw-web/gallery/FSAE-AUS05?page=2

(bottom of the page)

[Ehsan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jersey Tom:
Might move your CG considerably to one side... making for some interesting cornerweighting and load transfer issues.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What does 4-cyl engine weigh? maybe in the 140 lb ballpark with some externals? How much does your driver weigh? Between 150-250? Place the engine the correct distance away from the center line of the car and you can actually get excellent lateral CG placement.

if you have drivers of widely different weights, then you will have some issues, but on our team, our drivers are within 40 lbs of each other and each driver can get used to the vehicle's handling characteristics with themselves in it.

[Ashley Denmead]

haha, thanks for the nice comments guys, the car is beautiful if i do say so myself! well said Ehsan, your on the money with the corner weights....thats why we have cad packages and thats why our corner weights are adjustable!
I urge you to never underestimate the effect of the mighty YAW moment! thats the thing that we all aim to make the cars do well yet people dont seem to think about it much during design. not sure how many people at comp noticed but we set a 4.5s skid pad time, unfortunatly it was DNF'd and yes we do these consistently in practice. less yaw moment means you need less force generated from the SA at the front wheels to turn the car....pretty simple....so concentrating the major masses close to the CoG and having a low CoG seems to pay off.

this was our second year with the engine next to the driver and there are no plans to go away from the concept, only to keep making it better!

oh and keep an eye out for the first edition of 'racer australia' magazine which will be on sale in feb (OZ and NZ), there is an article on the car.

05 Deakin team leader
ashley.denmead@deakin.edu.au

[PatClarke]

Ash, check your private messages
Pat

[illiterate]

Hi,
i wonder if anyone could tell me the wheelbase, track and height of CG for a side engined car like deakin's

[Kyle Walther]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ashley Denmead:

I urge you to never underestimate the effect of the mighty YAW moment!

05 Deakin team leader
ashley.denmead@deakin.edu.au </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How well does the car handles in transient with a higher roll moment and lower yaw moment.

[DrC]

Back in the early 90's, when teams could bring two cars to competition, the University of Illinois did so with one being a side-engine, spool rear end configuration. It was given the nickname "the sidewinder" and it was actually quite competitive.

[ach1]

Michigan Tech made one in the late 90's, but I can't find any pictures.

[Ashley Denmead]

Hi guys,

The Deakin side mounted design has a wheelbase of 1525mm, front track of 1140, rear track 1050 and CoG of around 250mm from ground level. Transient handling is good and with the low yaw moment turn in is incredibly quick now that we have sorted out some of the steering geometry issues. We'll be competing at FSG in august with the 05 car and the new 06 car following the evolutionary path is well on its way.

Ash

DRT

[TomF]

Those sound like great numbers Ash! Will see you at the German event! Car looks nice indeed btw.

[Nitesh]

UCLan had a side engined car at the FS05. don't remember whether it was the class 1 or the 200 series but the 200 series won the design if i remember correctly. will get back with a pic if i do have one.

[Kyle Walther]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dan G:
Deakin did an incredible job on fit and finish...

http://evilallianceracing.com/ipw-web/gallery/albums/FSAE-AUS05/Sideways_in_the_Deakin_Sidewinder.sized.jpg

More pics here:

http://evilallianceracing.com/ipw-web/gallery/FSAE-AUS05?page=2
(bottom of the page) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

does that car only have two tech stickers or is it different in Aus.?

[Travis Garrison]

....You could lay the driver WAY back with that car http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Ashley Denmead]

the car of course has 3 tech stickers.....they just arent centralised! yeh driver position was one of our major motivations for putting the engine where it is

Ash

[conceptzrqt]

I am new to these so hang with me. I have designed and built a threewheeler called RQT. It turned out good and performed great. Now I am working on another three wheeler that I call Lo-T3K. I know that you cant run three wheelers but this one is set up with the motor next to me just as some of your FSAE cars. I have been looking to your cars for some time for inspiration and ideas to use on my own projects. If there is anything that I can help with I would be more than happy to add. I also want to say thank you for all of the great cars and information to help me along.

You can see RQT and some of Lo-T3K at
http://community.webshots.com/album/399455859nFRiJV

or

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Lo-T3k/

Thanks for all your research, pics and shared knowledge.

Todd

[RiNaZ]

hey todd, those "inspirations", are those of your own, or you from other designers? And what's the motivation to build a 3 wheeler?

what's the wheelbase and track like?

[kwancho]

http://www.seriouswheels.com/top-2006-Volkswagen-GX3-Concept.htm

I assume you've seen this before, but in case you haven't.

[RiNaZ]

Just to add to the link ... here's another one which is around 10K instead of the VW 17K ...

http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/04/23/bmws-clever-concept-completed/

and another picture i found:

http://www.canadiandesignresource.ca/officialgallery/?p=698

[kwancho]

Also, if you can kick it:
http://www.carver-europe.com/
http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[conceptzrqt]

RiNaZ
The pics that look professional are not mine. There are 5 pics on page 2 that arent mine the rest of them are mine. I havnt spent enough time working on my Photoshop skills, I spend my time in the back yard building or with my three kids and wife. I dont have alot of "FreeTime".
The sketches and other renderings are mine, I use Rhino as much as possible for my work. But like I said I never make it look real as I just dont have the time.
Thanks for the links, I have all the info found in those links but some are new links to me so I will add them.

Tha first 3wheeler I built was RQT (named after my kids) it had a 120"wb and a track of 67". My new design (Lo_T3K) is 96"wb and a track of 65". I kept all the weight up front as much as possible and tried to keep the side to side weight as even as possible while maintaining a shorter wb.
I put over 700 miles on RQT but never did any more testing than run the h*ll out of RQT in a parkinglot (often), no problems and it felt great. Very quick and agile, the only thing is it had alot of push. I had to mount the spindles that I used backwards to get the steering to work and this messed up the geometry of the steering. I have that solved with Lo-T3K. I am going to put up some videos of RQT running in my Lo-T3K group soon and I will put videos of Lo-T3K up as I get it running.
I wont keep you here, it is all out in the postings in the Lo-T3K group if you want to know more. This is your guys forum I just thought I would stop in and share a little and learn some more.

Thanks for your interest and I will always answer any questions or help in anyway if needed. But I think you guys have it under control, good job and good luck on your cars...

Seeya!
Todd