ask for help!!we are facing a serious problem with our cbr600rr

[Barry-gdut]

Hello everyone,thanks for your attention.We are a team from China and the first time for the game. Our engine is cbr600rr produced by 2003 and it works quit well before we customized it. Then we had the intaking system customized, including throttle, TP and Pressure stabilizing box,besides,we had the positions of both air pressure sensor and air temperature sensor changed.However, most of times, we find the fuel pump only work for 3 seconds after battery is connected, then it stops. What's matter with our engine? We haven't changed any other sensors nor lines of the engine. What do u guys think wrong with it? Thank you very much! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Barry-gdut]

Hello everyone,thanks for your attention.We are a team from China and the first time for the game. Our engine is cbr600rr produced by 2003 and it works quit well before we customized it. Then we had the intaking system customized, including throttle, TP and Pressure stabilizing box,besides,we had the positions of both air pressure sensor and air temperature sensor changed.However, most of times, we find the fuel pump only work for 3 seconds after battery is connected, then it stops. What's matter with our engine? We haven't changed any other sensors nor lines of the engine. What do u guys think wrong with it? Thank you very much! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Rex Chan]

First, calm down. If your engine does not start, it is a problem, but not too serious, as it will be solved soon. A serious problem would cost a lot of money or time to fix.

Can we have more info?

Are you saying your fuel pump is not given 12V when you need it? When you say 3 seconds, do you mean it will prime, but not run when the engine runs? Can you be clearer when you say some sensors were moved?

My best guess is that you changed the physical system, so the sensors were either incorrectly setup in their new spots, or the readings are now no longer what the ecu expects (sounds like you're running stock ecu?), so it shuts down.

Again, more info would make this easier.

[Barry-gdut]

"Are you saying your fuel pump is not given 12V when you need it? When you say 3 seconds, do you mean it will prime, but not run when the engine runs? Can you be clearer when you say some sensors were moved?"

we will check the voltage soon.Yes, it will prime but not run when the engine runs.we do have the position of the IAT,MAP,TP changed.for example, TP was between secondary injector and primary injector, then we moved it to the top of the intaking line, which is far away from the secondary injetor.I'm not sure whether IAT and MAP sensors would have a significant influence on the pump, for before our customazition, we can run the engine well without the two sensors connected to the right position.

Sorry,but I'm not quite sure when u say stock ecu,what is that?..

Maybe there is something wrong with the voltage of the fuel pump.Last night, we connected a lamp into the fuel pump wire, and it lighted 3 seconds prime,and would continue lighting when we start the engine, however, the pump doesn't work,so we'd like to check it out this morning and inform you,thank you very much!!

[Rex Chan]

I think you just found your issue: if the light stays on when the engine runs, then its gettng 12V, which means your pump is getting 12V. If its not pumping, or not pumping enough, then you have a pump issue.

Moving the position of the sensors is fine, as long as they're still connected correctly with the wiring.

"Stock ecu" is the control box that Honda supplies with the bike when you buy it. It controls fuel, spark, etc. Most teams run an aftermarket system, that replaces the stock ecu, as the changes we make to the airflow system means the factory tune/calibration/lookup table is now useless.

We run a MoTeC M48/M400, but its expensive. A cheaper alternative is Performance Electronics: PE (http://www.pe-ltd.com/index.htm)

[Rex Chan]

Another thing: how do you know the fuel pump stops working? Can you feel/hear it not pumping? Or are you inferring it from the engine dying.

Cos from the sounds of it, you're using the stock Hinda ECU and massively changed the air system. The engine will probably not run this way.

[Barry-gdut]

We hear it not pumping. For the fuel pump are able to work for the first 3 seconds,I think it would not be a problem about the pump...Hours before we have our engine started again, but this time, it was even unable to ignite. After measuring the wire with spark,the ignition line, we find it is fine.Maybe we are using the stock Honda ECU... So what should we do next? Someone from another school suggest us to use another TP sensor, would it work? Or should we just buy an EP or something like yours for an alternative?

[RollingCamel]

Does Honda run the same Suzuki anti-theft thing?

We had the same problem with our 07-GSXR600 with stock ECU and searching a bit around the internet it turned out that without the switch and to prevent hot or short wiring (or whatever it is called) a resistance must be presented into the circuit. Only then the pump worked when cranking.

[Joe17]

^ weeerd.
I don't think Honda has the same anti theft system as Suzuki, besides he said they had it running...?

Try this: Disconnect fuel line, put in bucket, crank engine. Does fuel come out? If you're getting 12vs to the pump, and no fuel, replace pump.

[RollingCamel]

The pump runs when connecting the battery, but not when cranking, then it stops, just as he says.

PS. What about the tip over sensor? It was a nuisance.

[Kirby]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Joe17:
^ weeerd.
I don't think Honda has the same anti theft system as Suzuki, besides he said they had it running...?

Try this: Disconnect fuel line, put in bucket, crank engine. Does fuel come out? If you're getting 12vs to the pump, and no fuel, replace pump. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A 2003 RR, will have HISS (Honda Ignition Security System), In the case of a stock ECU you'll need the correct transponder key and ignition barrel sensor.

[Barry-gdut]

So if we have a problem of HISS, Should we have some sensors to replace thethe correct transponder key and ignition barrel sensor? After measuring the voltage of the spark, we find it pretty low and cannot ignite the fuel, is that what u mean? The system should be moved?

[Rex Chan]

How did you measure the spark voltage? I didn't think it was possible/safe. The voltage getting to the coils/coil-pack/coil-on-plug should be 12V (if using induction, which I think the stock Honda system is). If using CDI, it should be about 400V.

However, the voltage across the spark plug gap is really high, and you should avoid getting close to it (only to test it by grounding the tip against the block).

If you're getting spark, that would seem to indicate that the engine is trying to start (if I was designing the ecu, I would cut spark if I wanted to disable engine running).

Can you take some photos and put them up on flickr/facebook? It's hard for me to understand what's going on. A picture might be worth a thousand words here.

[Barry-gdut]

http://i52.tinypic.com/5nkv8y.jpg
Our new TB
http://i52.tinypic.com/i6mm3q.jpg
http://i54.tinypic.com/16h5cgg.jpg
The new presure stabilizing box with secondary injectors and MAP above
http://i53.tinypic.com/2zgrfk1.jpg
The stock TB, which the baffle plate have been disassembled and hole been sealed.

We replace the stock TB with a new one and it locates long before Presure stabilizing box, which is quite big and installing the secondary injectors. So we think it would be a problem about our Excess air coefficient that it
is quiet high for much more air..Then after the rotation goes up to 5500rpm, the secondary injectors open and make the rotation even higher. This might explian why we got such a high rotation in idle.What we gonna do is to remove the pressure stabilizing box and cover parts of the intaking line to simulate the TB idle. ALso, we'd have the fuel pressure tested tomorrow.

[Barry-gdut]

http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gifsorry....first time to post pictures..I have no idea it would be such big..