Do you have this kind of team member?

[Spetsnazos]

That every day comes up with a new idea on how you can completely change the design but never gets his parts done? The kind of team member that proposes a 2nd engine, a completely new chassis, turbo, supercharger, and AWD. I've literally heard every single one of those from this guy, in a serious conversation...Then when it comes to simple tasks like listing all the raw materials he/she needs to complete his parts, you will wait weeks upon weeks with nothing less than arm twisting to finally get it.

I thought this was a rare occurance until we got a new guy at work that is basically a mirror image of the team member in our FSAE team. Just last week he wanted to completely change the design on a project we've been working on for a month and claimed he was going to get the majority of the changes on the revised drawings...today comes around and nothing other than talk has been done.

Do you have guys like this or am I the only one...

Cheers

[RollingCamel]

I had a similar guy and gave us great problems. I can't say that he gets ideas, but he wouldn't focus on his task, gives loads and loads of really stupid ideas that is technically unacceptable, and while lagging in his work, he keeps nagging every other team member and interfere with their jobs.

As a team leader he made me doubt myself. I tried assigning him different tasks in different fields from technical to non technical, from marketing to buying race outfits, but every time I ended doing it myself. And the thing he has done screwed it up really bad. We all screwed but at least put some thought and intelligence into it.

A successful team or company needs successful members.

After discussing it with the project manager we had to start limiting the tasks to him, but it was too late and the damage was done already. He might've been helpful in handwork or "brainless" tasks but before handwork comes the designs must be finished, which is something he didn't do.

Simply he worked too hard but zero results because he didn't try using his mind. Someone warned me about him before but I didn't believe him...

[Mazur]

OMG YES!

Always says we should run turbo, has a million intake manifold design ideas (all of a variable runner nature), etc. Every meeting he would take a lot of our time talking about the things we should be doing and just could never get the hint that we were not interested in focusing any of our engineering time towards the engine and that we were trying to keep things simple!

And of coarse, he never got shit done. We just stopped sending him emails for when we our meetings were held.

We have an EE right now that was sort of the same way (i.e. "I'll just make a standalone from scratch, we don't need Megasquirt, and I'll make our datalogging software, etc") Although I must say this particular kid is pretty smart and has had good headway in the design of our dash/datalogging system, but creating a standalone from scratch? Good luck bud! See you in a year, lol.



Right when you find yourself working with someone like this, the red flags should be waving and you should not wait to explain to them straight up that their ideas are non-realistic. Otherwise a lot of energy and time will be wasted.

[woodsy96]

We have a one month trial period for all of our new team members, and they all have a simple, not-for-the-car project to do (e.g. 6 will make a clutch lever, another 5 will make quick jacks, those interested in electronics do an electrical based project etc.)

This way we weed these people out before they 'join' the team.

[EHog]

Some of the ideas we have for "that guy"...

Carbon-Carbon pistons
Carbon fiber radiator
Carbon fiber valves
Carbon-carbon everything
And.... a F2tdicvt w/ tvd.

For those of you playing along at home, a "F2tdicvt w/ tvd" is a F4i, chopped in half so it becomes a F2. If that wasn't enough, it was turbocharged, direct injected, linked to a cvt that drove an in house manufactured torque vectoring differential.

And, if that plan failed, the backup was building a custom W-6.

Oh, and apparently we're making our own electromagnetic shocks.



So watch out world. SDSM&T is coming to get you.

[scotty young Taylor Race]

Get used to it guys .....they will follow you for the rest of your working life. And the real pisser is they always seem to make more money than you do ....go figure.

[jordan.k]

Evan, you forgot:

- BDAWD (belt driven all wheel drive)
- kinematic metalization friction stir welded aluminum brake rotors
- laser deposited titanium uprights with integral brake calipers
- friction stirwelded aluminum frame
- aluminum coated wings with current passing through them to ionize the surrounding air & create lift (aero design team)


If I may recall a quote from after the third meeting of the year, "I remember back when I had ideas."

[Vassili Wang]

every day comes up with a new idea on how you can completely change the design but never gets his parts done?
If he is a freshman, great, he or she will probably become a wonderful member in the future.

But if he or she is an experienced one, maybe we should ask him to finish his great plan all by himself.

Nevertheless, more ideas existing in a team can be better than no idea.

Good luck

[Bemo]

I'd also say that there is nothing wrong with having ideas as a new member. And it must be allowed to ask stupid questions. It is a task of the experienced members to explain, why certain things shouldn't be done. If they can't - well maybe than it's time to give it a chance.

The important thing of course is that everybody gets his work done. The best way in my oppinion is to set a lot of "small" deadlines. Like this everybody has to deliver some results let's say every two weeks.

This way you recognize early when someone is falling behind the schedule. If he is doesn't keep up to his deadlines, tell him that he has to do his work before coming with new ideas. If someone isn't able to accept that at all, well maybe he isn't worth being in the team. But before throwing someone out of the team he should always get a chance to get better. Newbies always need their time to get used to the work of a FSAE team and to get a feeling for the important things.

[Barky]

Show me a Formula SAE team that never had a team member who wanted to put a turbo on and I'll show you a Formula SAE team that has never existed.

[ESaenz]

I thought these were all interesting ideas...

Wait a minute... Noooo!

[EHog]

Dont get me wrong... I'm not a fan of shutting down ideas, no matter how silly.

On that note, scroll up and read all the silly ideas that I (and jordan.k) posted. Now, please realize that these ideas came from senior members. I don't poke fun at our freshmen's wild an crazy ideas. That would be immoral!

[df_fsmb]

Well, as long as you recognise it soon enough, it is not a problem.

But I agree, binning the initial idea is the worst thing to do to any team member. So everyone has to be given a chance. Just give him this chance soon enough.

The system woodsy96 explained is thereore (in theory) perfect.

[Adambomb]

Yeah, we've seen plenty of these guys. Fortunately we've never been desperate enough as long as I can remember to have one end up as a team leader. In fact, we've had team leaders take two teams before we've resorted to that.

I've noticed that it is true, you can't get them to do things like order materials, build brackets, or take any part in the execution of the project, as those sorts of things are below them. Also, making them stick to any sort of schedule is an insult to their creative genius.

What we've generally done with these types is to explain to them what is inappropriate about using their design for FSAE, and from there they either learn and adapt or get bored and go away. If they can get around their ego and realize they aren't God's gift to all motorsports, and stick around, read the rules, learn how important all the little brackets and everything else is, sometimes they can be rehabilitated into productive team members.

[tgman]

As long as the team member focuses on their actual components and gets them onto the car on time, go nuts. While there are stupid ideas remember that a thousand monkeys with a thousand typewriters will eventually create a masterpiece

[Tom W]

Originally posted by tgman:
As long as the team member focuses on their actual components and gets them onto the car on time, go nuts. While there are stupid ideas remember that a thousand monkeys with a thousand typewriters will eventually create a masterpiece

And welcome to the guy whose most common comment last year was "semi serious idea but ..."

[RollingCamel]

We have an EE right now that was sort of the same way (i.e. "I'll just make a standalone from scratch, we don't need Megasquirt, and I'll make our datalogging software, etc") Although I must say this particular kid is pretty smart and has had good headway in the design of our dash/datalogging system, but creating a standalone from scratch? Good luck bud! See you in a year, lol.

If he is a capable guy and manages to stick to plan and finish his main job, then I'd like him to do it as a side project and takes as much time as he needs until his graduation. I like wacky ideas but on the side please, until proven to be capable and reliable.

[Rotary Sprocket]

I've always taken the approach of rarely shutting down ideas. Whenever a new thought is brought up I always tell them to do the research on the idea and find out if it is feasible, what the advantages and disadvantages are and if it is better than the system we are currently running.

Usually one of two things happen; the team member that brought up the idea learns that it is outlandish and impossible and the reasons why it won't work, or that it actually might work and then we give it a shot depending on if we have enough resources and time. Either way they learn something through the process and, I think, become better engineers along the way. Plus you never know what kind of good ideas actually develop from crazy ones.

The worst case, is that they never realize they're wrong and eventually get weeded off the team.

[Big Mo]

Our teams have had a few people like this:

One guy had impractical ideas, but got his work done.

An EE the same year wanted to put a ton of crazy stuff on the Hybrid car, all of which he would be doing from scratch and wanted everyone else to conform around him.

Third guy had some wacky ideas, but mainly wanted to drive without having to do any work at all costs. His avoidance was notorious and totally obvious.


That said, I don't think our team could have survived without these people. It gives the team a common subject to complain about, which ultimately makes people, who wouldn't otherwise get along, work better together. It also helps people be wary of their own flaws, and they start thinking more about their own actions.

Generally, if you have to endure "that guy", the team work environment gets better.

[Xeilos]

That said, I don't think our team could have survived without these people. It gives the team a common subject to complain about, which ultimately makes people, who wouldn't otherwise get along, work better together.

I know exactly what you mean; these kinds of people are 100% necessary for an otherwise semi-dysfunctional team to functional well and effectively together.

Our chassis guys a couple of years back was the subject of this form of abuse (yes it is abuse). Luckily he could take it and whenever something went wrong regardless of who actually did it, we would all shout his name is exasperation, with the other team members picking up the call and echoing. Though it would be fair to point out that he was one of those people that this thread describes.

If there was one thing Hitler got right it was popular discontent binds people together.

DISCLAIMER: I neither support nor condone any of the actions that Hitler and the Nazi regime committed. The above point is irrespective of the nature or subject of the actions; simply the cause-result effect was used for illustrative purposes.

[Spetsnazos]

Originally posted by Big Mo:

Generally, if you have to endure "that guy", the team work environment gets better.

lol that is one way of looking at it