Performance Electronics Questions

[Ian M]

Just had a few questions about the Performance Electronics ECU

1. Is an ignition ignitor/expander required to boost the current to the coils on a Honda 600cc?

2. Is a Bosch Wide Band Lambda sensor compatible with the PE? Is the PE lambda sensor compatible at all?

I couldn't find this info. on their website and figured I could get an answer quicker on here.

Thanks,
Ian McGiffen
University of Evansville
Engine/Powertrain

[Ian M]

Just had a few questions about the Performance Electronics ECU

1. Is an ignition ignitor/expander required to boost the current to the coils on a Honda 600cc?

2. Is a Bosch Wide Band Lambda sensor compatible with the PE? Is the PE lambda sensor compatible at all?

I couldn't find this info. on their website and figured I could get an answer quicker on here.

Thanks,
Ian McGiffen
University of Evansville
Engine/Powertrain

[Bowtie Man]

no ignitor/expander necessary

as for the wideband you'll have to get a controller for it from a different company and have it feed a 0-5v input to the ECU through one of the users.

Good Luck,
Luc

[Ian M]

Thanks for the info! I am not quite following you on the "controller". I understand that the lambda sensor must be wired to one of the aux inputs, but what kind of controller is required?
What kind of data logging does the PE have if it doesn't use an air/fuel sensor? That is all I ever care about. Do you just use an external air/fuel meter when it's on the dyno?
Sorry, just want to scope out my options and a lambda sensor is pretty important to me.

Thanks,
Ian

[BryanH]

Try www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lc1.php (http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lc1.php)

Cheers Bryan H
RMIT fan club

[Bowtie Man]

I'm using a techedge one myself. It converts the signal from the sensor to a 0-5v output. which is data logged by the ecu. Unfortunately the PE ECU doesn't have internal memory so there has to be a laptop or other source of storage onboard.

http://techedge.com.au/vehicle/wbo2/builtwb.htm

Luc

[Ian M]

Thanks guys. I was thinking we may be better to sell our Motec M4 and get a PE, but I am wondering if that is such a good idea now. The PE looks better on the cost report, probably has better tech support, and uses a windows based interface, but the Motec has some nice data logging options that I didn't realize didn't come on the PE. Maybe that is why it is a little cheaper.
Thanks for your time.

Ian McGiffen
University of Evansville

[pengulns2001]

The PE has a long way to go still to become a nice ecu, if your a super low budget team and cant afford anything else its usable but if you already have a motec unit than i couldnt see switching to the PE... coming from someone who has used both

[B Lewis @ PE Engine Management]

Just a reminder... You guys can always contact us directly at (513) 777-5233 ext 211 or brian.lewis@pe-ltd.com with any questions about the system.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The PE has a long way to go still to become a nice ecu </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would agree we are not as full-featured as the Motec, but not a nice ECU, c'mon http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. We have had a couple of teams win with our system.

[Chris Boyden]

You gotta look at the relative cost

How much does a Motec cost?

three times the cost better get you three times the features.

[Ian M]

Yeah, our team bought the Motec before I was on the team, so I didn't have any say in it. We are an extremely low budget team, but since we already splurged for the Motec we will probably hang onto it.
I think the Motec is a great ECU, almost too advanced for myself but I am learning and pretty well know what I am doing now. I would like to play with one of the Windows based versions though because mine is in DOS.
I like what I have heard about PE's customer service and I think they make a great product for the price. If they incorporate a lambda sensor and a little bit of data logging they will put Motec out of business just because of their superior customer support.
Keep up the good work at PE and thanks for all of the replies about the ECU. I love this forum. So quick and easy. If only I could say that about building a racecar in a year with 10 guys and $10000 to work with.

Ian McGiffen
University of Evansville (Southern Indiana)
3rd year team
Engine/Powertrain

[pengulns2001]

their customer service is INCREDIBLE you will never get service like that on anything especially the motec lol. For what you pay for the PE its pretty good but its way underfeatured for development if your really serious about your engine package (well leave DAQ out of this) Brian have you released a new software, i remember at the last competition talking to you about a new version that seamed fairly impressive and more on the level with the lower level motec systems...

I've been using the M800 since that competition and for obvious reasons like that better despite being over 10x the cost when you consider all the sensors

[Superfast Matt McCoy]

PE is awesome. we can afford better ecu's and we have used them in the past, but now we just use the PE. It is missing a couple features that would make it great (see below), but they're not features that will keep you out of design semi-finals. Data Logging should be a seperate system anyways.

Brian, in case you are wondering, i'd pay an extra $300 for two wheel sensor inputs for traction control and an automapping feature using a wideband 0-5v input (see AEM).

[Poe]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">you will never get service like that on anything especially the motec </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have nothing but good things to say about Motec customer service. They are always friendly and always ready to answer any question we have, no matter how simple it might be. We had a problem with our ECU (our fault) just before competition, and were able to rent one from them while ours was being fixed in Australia.

We are very pleased with our M4. It has served us well for the past four years. It was all we could do to afford the M4 then, I can't imagine being able to afford an M800. The M4 does everything we want it to, although we are pretty much at the limit right now. It is very much worth what it cost the team to purchase four years ago.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Data Logging should be a seperate system anyways </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why? Logging engine functions in the ECU is great for dyno tuning (at least on our 40 year old water brake with no data acquisition) where an external logger would unnecessarily add complexity. Using the ECU logging for engine parameters saves us memory space in our data logger that is better used for vehicle dynamics data.

[pengulns2001]

you would be amazed what you can do with the 800 and the new software and a decent array of sensors. I use every function and input/output of the M800 and half the IN/OUT's of an expander... DAQ is your friend

[Ian M]

WOW! We aren't that advanced yet. Getting the basics right is a big enough task. If we had enough people so I could solely devote my time to engine management that would help alot! Currently, I am the build manager, so as soon as she runs pretty well, I move on to another aspect. Still have 3 years with a co-op so I'll have time to learn along the way.

[alfordda]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> We are very pleased with our M4. It has served us well for the past four years. It was all we could do to afford the M4 then, I can't imagine being able to afford an M800.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It seems that Motec customers always have comments like that. Does that mean you buy 1 Motec unit and swap it to the new car every year? What do you do with the old cars? I would much rather buy a PE every year for the new car and keep the older cars functional.

[pengulns2001]

we have 1 m400 as well that we use for our old cars, we never have more than 2 cars (if that) running

[Poe]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It seems that Motec customers always have comments like that. Does that mean you buy 1 Motec unit and swap it to the new car every year? What do you do with the old cars? I would much rather buy a PE every year for the new car and keep the older cars functional. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If we were lucky enough to be able to keep an entire car together from the previous year, the ECU thing might come into play. We have one ECU that has been used on the past four cars. If we could afford to buy enough new parts to completely rebuild a car, we could probably afford to buy a new ECU too, but funding hasn't doesn't allowed for that.

Presently, we are running a test car that is a combination of a couple of past years cars, but it has been running the stock F4i EFI, unrestricted.

[Steve Yao]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Poe:
If we were lucky enough to be able to keep an entire car together from the previous year, the ECU thing might come into play. We have one ECU that has been used on the past four cars. If we could afford to buy enough new parts to completely rebuild a car, we could probably afford to buy a new ECU too, but funding hasn't doesn't allowed for that.

Presently, we are running a test car that is a combination of a couple of past years cars, but it has been running the stock F4i EFI, unrestricted. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

After an entire year or more, thousands of student hours, and sponsor contributions, it seems ludicrous to dismantle previous cars for any reason...but you do what you can to survive. However, I would recommend taking a hard long look at revamping your fundraising efforts this year.

[Poe]

What do you do with previous cars? Space is also a concern for us; there isn't really any room to keep a previous car around even if we could. All of the parts eventually get replaced so after a couple years we could put an older car back together again, like we have with the '04 car. Right now that car is at an alumnus' house because we don't have room for it at our shop.

We made a big, big push for funds last year, and most of the donations were in the form of materials/time/workspace donations. It's not like we just sat around crying that we didn't have any money last year. We are establishing connections everywhere we can, and our sponsor list grows longer each year. For a 6 year-old team, I think we are heading in the right direction; it's just going to take some time. We haven't found that wealthy alum to finance the team just yet http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[DRTorkay]

Does PE have an input for ignition kill?

[BStoney]

Yes, +5V input to kill both ignition and/or fuel (there are two digital inputs).

[Ian M]

We're in the same boat as a 3rd year team. We have to reuse parts. We are on a massive sponsorship push this year now that we have a car to show off. Pray for us because we are waiting on responses after just sending out all of our sponsorship packets.
Looks like this car will be parted out though because our F4i is going to Oklahoma in exchange for another RR. 2 engines now so with enough money this year's car may stay together! Like all racing it comes down to money!