2001 YZF R6 + Performance Electronics

[Manas]

Hey all,

Calling upon all the Yamaha YZF R6 (stock carb model) teams who have used the Performance Electronics kit.

I wanted to know if u guys have had any hickups with the above mentioned combination while trying to rev the engine beyond a certain rpm inspite of 100% open throttle? if yes, what had seemed to cause it ?

Our setup is behaving very erratic... the Engine initially misfires a hell lot : where just single cylinder fires that too randomly. . .

later, after numerous times cross checking all the connections, the eng. dsnt rev beyond 8K rpm. at full throttle.

What can be the determental factors that may be causing this : ??

We are using a stock Fuel pump of a(locally available) 1300cc MPFI car . . . and regulated by an Aeromotive Fuel Pressure Regulator. For injectors, we are using those of Daewoo Matiz
.
Is it possible that the fuel line is not being sustained at the requisite pressure ??

What pressure (50 psi) are ur fuel lines being maintained at and what kind of regulating device do u use (( manifold/ plenum vaccuum actuated Diaphragm - Fuel pressure Regulator ? )) ?

Do most of these teams go for YZF R6 (2003+) Fuel Injectors ? or some different ones //(in case not using the PE ones)//
Have u ever made any switch-over to a different ECU ? If yes, Why ?

Thanks
\\//, Live Long and Prosper.
Manas.

[js10coastr]

we run that system...but don't seem to have many problems with it.

I'm really not sure where the problem would be, but if the ECU and programming is ok, I'd check the throttle position sensor to make sure it's outputting a correct signal at WOT.

[Denny Trimble]

I'm not an engine guy, but from what I gather:

-Use a fixed fuel pressure regulator. Vacuum regulators are for cases where, for example, you've added a turbo kit to a stock car, and you can't change the fuel map, so you rely on the fuel pressure regulator to add more fuel with boost.
-We run about 50 psi (not kpa) fuel rail pressure.
-Use a fuel pressure gage to make sure you're getting that pressure on the rail.

Hope that helps.

[Colin]

i've never used the performance electronics stuff but if your misfiring check the RPM sensor output with a cro and make sure you are getting a good consistent signal, is it a hall effect or reluctor sensor

Have you checked the ignition advance with a timing light?

Make sure any rev limiter's are switched off

It's pretty unlikely that the problem is due to a lack of fuel if the engine is under no load but it's always a good idea to have a fuel gauge off the rail so you can see what is happening

Hope that's some help

[Garbo]

I ran an R6 with a PE-ECU1 last year. We had initial firing problems and a reluctance to rev. it was due to trigger wheel problems. The trigger wheel is not as hard to please as with some other systems but it is vitally important that your timing is right on and be sure to check the air gap (the tolerance is listed in the manual; use a feeler gage). During testing, I ran between 30psi and 60psi but, as Denny said, have a pressure regulator on the rail. I have also run into misfiring problems due to fluctuating fuel pressure.

The R6 stock fuel injectors and plug igniters are low impedance, the PE needs high impedence inkectors and igniters. The igniters and injectors from a Honda CBR 600 F4i will do work as will most automotive injectors (I ran F4i ignitors and Bosch injectors from a 2.3l ford mustang, the F4i injectors are $$$$$)

Look into this and give me a shout if you are still having problems: matthew . garvin @ gmail . com

[B Lewis @ PE Engine Management]

Hi Manas,

What have you adjusted to try to remedy the problem? An engine that won't rev can be either fuel or ignition related. Also, what ignition coils are you using? If you would like, send me the tuning file (*.ECU) and I will see if I see anything that jumps out at me (brian@pe-ltd.com).

[dartmouth01]

We're running an 01 R6 engine with the PE box, and we ran into the same problems others have talked about. The engine team spent numerous hours on the dyno trying to figure out all the bugs, though we never really did have the same problems you did. They had to CNC their own crankwheel, because the PE one wasn't good enough and was giving erratic signals, when measured using an oscilloscope. After that, we found out the RC injectors we were using were not the right resistance, so we had to order new ones. We are using the honda f4i coils, and those are working very well. We run with a stock 04 R6 pressure reg, which stays at about 45 psi.

If its not a wiring problem, I would look into the crankwheel first, for the misfiring problems. Then check your injectors and coils.

Good luck!

[B Lewis @ PE Engine Management]

dartmouth01,

I do not know the exact set of circumstances surrounding your situation but I do remember that we sent the trigger wheel out late because we were out of stock. In the meantime, someone on your team manufactured a wheel based on the prints that we provided.

The trigger wheel can't be "bad" per se as long as the teeth are spaced correctly, there isn't excessive run-out and the proper spacing between it and the sensor is maintained.

Normally, if the trigger signal is the problem, a "Crank Error" will be registered. It is typically due to incorrect sensor gap, the sensor wired backwards, excessive noise on the line or a flexible sensor mount.

[MoTeC]

Hey Brian,
Don't forget the classic, running the wiring for the crank sensor across the ignition leads/coils. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[B Lewis @ PE Engine Management]

Thanks Mark,

That's an olde but a goodie. If you wrap those plug wires around the trigger lines enough times, no amount of sheliding seems to help. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[dartmouth01]

Sorry Brian, I was being vague by the meaning of "bad". Yeah, I dont know the whole circumstances, but I think the crankwheel that was sent didn't quite give as good a signal as the one we made, but I'm not sure what changes in the design we made. I'll find out and let you know.


Overall, we've been very happy with the PE box and your support!

[Cody the Genius]

On kind of a side note, a vacuum diaphram fuel pressure regulators are not solely turbo applications but instead work very well with NA setup because true fuel pressure remains constant. What I mean by true fuel pressure is the pressure difference between the fuel rail and manifold pressure. This is a good thing for any fuel injected engine because it means the the amount of fuel delivered for a given pulse width is then independent of manifold pressure. This means that fuel used calculations are more accurate, less compensations are needed to overcome rapid manifold pressure changes (ie rapid throttle changes), and the whole 1% more fuel equals .01 lamba difference is attained making it a hell of a lot easier to tune.


And that's it for my meanderings, but it does sound like the revving up problem is either a miscalibrated or damaged throttle position sensor or possibly ignition noise interfering with the crank and cam position sensor.

hope that helps

[Manas]

talking about the crank pick up wheel and sensor . . .

Is the stock sensor compatible with the PE Crank Pickup wheel ?

We had assumed this combo wud work fine , and it did in the beginning. . . But as we faced (and rectified) the problems . . . our suspicion was concentrated on the validity of the above stated combo.

Any comments ?

Does the Crankpickup wheel work fine with only hall effect sensors ?

[B Lewis @ PE Engine Management]

Manas,

Provided that the ECU is configured for the 2-wire variable reluctance sensor, this combination should work fine (stock sensor and PE wheel). What problems did you have?