How do you deal with FSAE n00bs?

[Spetsnazos]

So I was having a discussion with someone and it got me thinking. How do you deal with FSAE n00bs?

Lets face it, we've all been there before where we think we have a clue, but we don't. When you think FSAE you think, "Formula Race Car!".

I think it breaks down something like this.

FSAE: You first learn you can have a maximum displacement up to 610cc.
Internal Light Bulb: Sweet lets get a 600cc engine!!! R6 is soooo FAST!

FSAE: You learn that you can go forced induction
Internal Light Bulb: We need a turbo!! Maximum boost that the engine can handle!

FSAE: You learn there's a mandatory restrictor
Internal Light Bulb: So? I'll just make a little less power!

FSAE: You find out about carbon fiber chassis/monocoques.
Internal Light Bulb: We have to do carbon fiber because its lighter and looks better!!!

FSAE: You drive last years car.
Internal Light Bulb: Wow this thing is so much faster than my civic, if we build something just like this with a turbo we will win at the competition!!

FSAE: You learn about some teams going with dirtbike motors
Internal Light Bulb: Wow those things are so light and they produce one million torque, we need one of these....with a turbo!!!

Feel free to add or flame

/flame suit on(B17.5 Compliant)

[Spetsnazos]

So I was having a discussion with someone and it got me thinking. How do you deal with FSAE n00bs?

Lets face it, we've all been there before where we think we have a clue, but we don't. When you think FSAE you think, "Formula Race Car!".

I think it breaks down something like this.

FSAE: You first learn you can have a maximum displacement up to 610cc.
Internal Light Bulb: Sweet lets get a 600cc engine!!! R6 is soooo FAST!

FSAE: You learn that you can go forced induction
Internal Light Bulb: We need a turbo!! Maximum boost that the engine can handle!

FSAE: You learn there's a mandatory restrictor
Internal Light Bulb: So? I'll just make a little less power!

FSAE: You find out about carbon fiber chassis/monocoques.
Internal Light Bulb: We have to do carbon fiber because its lighter and looks better!!!

FSAE: You drive last years car.
Internal Light Bulb: Wow this thing is so much faster than my civic, if we build something just like this with a turbo we will win at the competition!!

FSAE: You learn about some teams going with dirtbike motors
Internal Light Bulb: Wow those things are so light and they produce one million torque, we need one of these....with a turbo!!!

Feel free to add or flame

/flame suit on(B17.5 Compliant)

[Ben K]

You do the only thing you can do:

You tell them that in every scenario there are benefits as well as downsides. Every single thing you mention there has some kind of downside, whether it be money, time, increased work (not always a bad thing), etc.

Ben

[poe21]

The biggest problem I saw was getting people to understand it was necessary to do things right the first time. Eventually you end up with 500 bandaids on top of each other only because you figured on fixing something later.

Also, to any n00bs reading this, the difference between .001" and .1" is not negligible. Make parts according to prints please and ask if something is not in tolerance. Sometimes it isn't critical, and other times... remake it.

[MegaDeath]

OMG we can puts wings on our car and have like 500 lbs of downforce NOOOO problem!!! Then put a turbo on it!!! The car will be sooo fast you guys!!!

[Spetsnazos]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ben Kolodner:
You do the only thing you can do:

You tell them that in every scenario there are benefits as well as downsides. Every single thing you mention there has some kind of downside, whether it be money, time, increased work (not always a bad thing), etc.

Ben </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That works if the other person actually realizes they have no clue what they're talking about. If they think they know what they're doing, thats where the problem comes in. When you tell someone that a turbo is extra weight, tunning, time, reliability issue, packaging, etc...they're like "so? It makes more power". When you tell them that it doesn't make "more power" due to the restrictor and the restriction on forced induction they're like "this guy just told me that turbo's dont make more power....trololololol He doesnt know what hes talking about"

[moose]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MegaDeath:
OMG we can puts wings on our car and have like 500 lbs of downforce NOOOO problem!!! Then put a turbo on it!!! The car will be sooo fast you guys!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can sell you some scrap steel or lead if you want another 500 lbs of grip. Think of that skidpad time, assuming you have a big enough turbo to overcome all that downforce.

[Spetsnazos]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by moose:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MegaDeath:
OMG we can puts wings on our car and have like 500 lbs of downforce NOOOO problem!!! Then put a turbo on it!!! The car will be sooo fast you guys!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can sell you some scrap steel or lead if you want another 500 lbs of grip. Think of that skidpad time, assuming you have a big enough turbo to overcome all that downforce. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lead isn't green. How about some ethanol?

[AxelRipper]

We have a rule about complex things (aero, turbos, custom made engines)

If you make it and it proves to be reliable/beneficial, we will run it. But you need to develop it without using any team time, money, or resources and you still need to get your other projects done.

[AxelRipper]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Spetsnazos:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by moose:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MegaDeath:
OMG we can puts wings on our car and have like 500 lbs of downforce NOOOO problem!!! Then put a turbo on it!!! The car will be sooo fast you guys!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can sell you some scrap steel or lead if you want another 500 lbs of grip. Think of that skidpad time, assuming you have a big enough turbo to overcome all that downforce. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lead isn't green. How about some ethanol? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tungsten. Much less volume

[Spetsnazos]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AxelRipper:
We have a rule about complex things (aero, turbos, custom made engines)

If you make it and it proves to be reliable/beneficial, we will run it. But you need to develop it without using any team time, money, or resources and you still need to get your other projects done. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We had a guy that we told exactly the same thing. In the end all he did was research and try to prove to us that it is reliable/beneficial. When we asked him where he planned on putting all the turbo stuff he drew some hand sketches and said "look".

In the end he didn't do any of his work...lol.

[atm92484]

We had this guy....

http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/t...10399141#57410399141 (http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/38010399141?r=57410399141#57410399141)

I told him to check out www.fsae.com (http://www.fsae.com) - problem solved. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Mbirt]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by atm92484:
We had this guy....

http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/t...10399141#57410399141 (http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/38010399141?r=57410399141#57410399141)

I told him to check out www.fsae.com (http://www.fsae.com) - problem solved. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
HAHA! What an epic thread! That link should be featured in the "If you are new here, click here and read this first..." thread as a warning to all who dare act "qwr".

Our last two Baja team leaders had about the same level of engine knowledge. One claimed the FSAE Mahle motor has a 30k rpm valvetrain and the other wholeheartedly believes his '04 TRX450R quad has a 17:1 c/r. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

[povelocj]

We had a few members that thought there was a rule that the frame had to be cut in half at the end of competition. This rumor started floating around about three months before competion.

Come competition time we are all standing around the trailer, packed up and ready to head back home and one of the guys says so I guess we snuck out without having the frame cut in two. So I bs with him for a few thinking we was joking. Turns out he was serious.

I just wish everyone would read the rules. We wasted hundreds of hours because people just didn't know.

[Test Driver]

N00bs, hell, I recall a team leader who referred to the project as "F1 SAE" even towards the end of his stewardship. I think he also used "Indy" a lot when talking about it.

N00bs rolls off the tongue too easily. There should be a similar word for highly educated but clueless engineers. And I'm not just talking about FSAE guys, I still see this in the auto industry as well.

[exFSAE]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">There should be a similar word for highly educated but clueless engineers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I typically use 'ass clown' to encompass that.

To be fair though, everyone in FSAE is a n00b in the grand scheme of things. Some more or less than others - but hey it's supposed to be a learning experience.

Don't think the question should be so much of, how do you deal with someone who is inexperienced, as much as how do you deal with someone who is stubborn, closed-minded, or unwilling to learn. Worse yet, how do you deal with someone who THINKS they know everything, and in reality are totally out to lunch?

Highly recommend that is a skill to work on because it sure as hell doesn't go away in industry.

[Pennyman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by exFSAE:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">There should be a similar word for highly educated but clueless engineers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I typically use 'ass clown' to encompass that.

To be fair though, everyone in FSAE is a n00b in the grand scheme of things. Some more or less than others - but hey it's supposed to be a learning experience.

Don't think the question should be so much of, how do you deal with someone who is inexperienced, as much as how do you deal with someone who is stubborn, closed-minded, or unwilling to learn. Worse yet, how do you deal with someone who THINKS they know everything, and in reality are totally out to lunch?

Highly recommend that is a skill to work on because it sure as hell doesn't go away in industry. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds like a good PHD candidate :P

[Edward M. Kasprzak]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Worse yet, how do you deal with someone who THINKS they know everything, and in reality are totally out to lunch? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Sounds like a good PHD candidate :P </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey now... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Ben K]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pennyman:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by exFSAE:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">There should be a similar word for highly educated but clueless engineers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I typically use 'ass clown' to encompass that.

To be fair though, everyone in FSAE is a n00b in the grand scheme of things. Some more or less than others - but hey it's supposed to be a learning experience.

Don't think the question should be so much of, how do you deal with someone who is inexperienced, as much as how do you deal with someone who is stubborn, closed-minded, or unwilling to learn. Worse yet, how do you deal with someone who THINKS they know everything, and in reality are totally out to lunch?

Highly recommend that is a skill to work on because it sure as hell doesn't go away in industry. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds like a good PHD candidate :P </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+1 -- So true.

[Drew Price]

Like this?

http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/t...607348/m/39520422051 (http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/39520422051)

[Spetsnazos]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Drew Price:
Like this?

http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/t...607348/m/39520422051 (http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/39520422051) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hes an expert, we could all learn a thing or two from him.

[Charlie]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by atm92484:
We had this guy....

http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/t...10399141#57410399141 (http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/38010399141?r=57410399141#57410399141)

I told him to check out www.fsae.com (http://www.fsae.com) - problem solved. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ahhh, a classic post. So glad I saved and hosted his original diagram.

[MalcolmG]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by atm92484:
We had this guy....

http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/t...10399141#57410399141 (http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/38010399141?r=57410399141#57410399141)
I told him to check out www.fsae.com (http://www.fsae.com) - problem solved. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ahhh, a classic post. So glad I saved and hosted his original diagram. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Haha, so did I! In fact by complete coincidence I stumbled upon it on my computer last night and had a good laugh. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

[Spetsnazos]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MalcolmG:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by atm92484:
We had this guy....

http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/t...10399141#57410399141 (http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/38010399141?r=57410399141#57410399141)
I told him to check out www.fsae.com (http://www.fsae.com) - problem solved. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ahhh, a classic post. So glad I saved and hosted his original diagram. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Haha, so did I! In fact by complete coincidence I stumbled upon it on my computer last night and had a good laugh. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hope I was never laughed at when I was new http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[MalcolmG]

Everyone gets laughed at when they're new, you've got to be pretty special to get completely ridiculed like that guy though.

[Charlie]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Spetsnazos:


I hope I was never laughed at when I was new http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that particular fellow was treated very kindly for his misunderstanding at first; it was only after he became arrogant and demeaning towards the people that were trying to help him that he got ridiculed.

[Spetsnazos]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MalcolmG:
Everyone gets laughed at when they're new, you've got to be pretty special to get completely ridiculed like that guy though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I've met some special people through FSAE. I could actually think of a few people that match that guys expertise.

[Spetsnazos]

FSAE Noob: We should do AWD, Evo's and STI's are very fast off the line

facepalm.

[coastertrav]

We just hand noobs a broom and let them sweep, the shop always needs a good sweeping out.

I've also started answering any "well why don't you ____" question by telling them to hop on a computer in the office, pull up the rules and then tell me why we don't do that. Had a guy recently sigh and say that that seemed like a lot of work...

[Spetsnazos]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by coastertrav:
We just hand noobs a broom and let them sweep, the shop always needs a good sweeping out.

I've also started answering any "well why don't you ____" question by telling them to hop on a computer in the office, pull up the rules and then tell me why we don't do that. Had a guy recently sigh and say that that seemed like a lot of work... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I notice people much rather drive the car than sweep the floors. They just dont show up until we have a drive day.

I have also heard, "I am training to be an engineer, sweeping is below me". Srs.

[Tim.Wright]

when someone suggests a complicated hairbrain idea it often works to say, "go on then, do it".

You will never see them again because 90% of these people are all talk and will scoot as soon as you give them work to do.

Tim

[Chris B]

money, time and reward for effort are the three criteria i usually use to answer crazy noob ideas. at UQ at the moment our team is still on the rebuild after having three years in a row without a running car.

we have had a running car for almost 12 months now and i took over as tech director in Jan. as a result, i have quite a conservative no risk approach to developing the car. so i remind them that its not F1 and that its more important to have a running reliable car than a brilliant car thats not finished.

they either accept it and get excited about developing the car or want to make big hairbrain upgrades and go back to need for speed or gran turismo.

[Spetsnazos]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chris B:
money, time and reward for effort are the three criteria i usually use to answer crazy noob ideas. at UQ at the moment our team is still on the rebuild after having three years in a row without a running car.

we have had a running car for almost 12 months now and i took over as tech director in Jan. as a result, i have quite a conservative no risk approach to developing the car. so i remind them that its not F1 and that its more important to have a running reliable car than a brilliant car thats not finished.

they either accept it and get excited about developing the car or want to make big hairbrain upgrades and go back to need for speed or gran turismo. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
woa woa bro how could you put grand tourismo in the same sentence as need for speed?

Have you no shame?

[Chris B]

sorry mate but i can because ive had countless people come up with design suggestions because "thats what worked on my lotus elise in GT5." not a fan of either of them lol as they give people ideas

[Adambomb]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chris B:
sorry mate but i can because ive had countless people come up with design suggestions because "thats what worked on my lotus elise in GT5." not a fan of either of them lol as they give people ideas </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

These are usually the same people that will always tell you, no matter what, that you need stiffer springs and bigger brakes.

[Luniz]

Never argue with idiots. First they drag you down to their level, and once you're there they'll beat you with experience!

[Spetsnazos]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Luniz:
Never argue with idiots. First they drag you down to their level, and once you're there they'll beat you with experience! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL'd!!!

[cvargas]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Spetsnazos:
So I was having a discussion with someone and it got me thinking. How do you deal with FSAE n00bs?

Lets face it, we've all been there before where we think we have a clue, but we don't. When you think FSAE you think, "Formula Race Car!".

I think it breaks down something like this.

FSAE: You first learn you can have a maximum displacement up to 610cc.
Internal Light Bulb: Sweet lets get a 600cc engine!!! R6 is soooo FAST!

FSAE: You learn that you can go forced induction
Internal Light Bulb: We need a turbo!! Maximum boost that the engine can handle!

FSAE: You learn there's a mandatory restrictor
Internal Light Bulb: So? I'll just make a little less power!

FSAE: You find out about carbon fiber chassis/monocoques.
Internal Light Bulb: We have to do carbon fiber because its lighter and looks better!!!

FSAE: You drive last years car.
Internal Light Bulb: Wow this thing is so much faster than my civic, if we build something just like this with a turbo we will win at the competition!!

FSAE: You learn about some teams going with dirtbike motors
Internal Light Bulb: Wow those things are so light and they produce one million torque, we need one of these....with a turbo!!!

Feel free to add or flame

/flame suit on(B17.5 Compliant) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just tell them in a polite way that they're wrong in their thought process and that they have a lot of reading to do.

[Mbirt]

Even better is that freshmen can now be told to go to fsae.com and read this thread.

I think the GT12 has already been placed back in the cabinet. This thread has done wonders.

[Jon Burford]

I am a key member of a team that has had a very constant theme for a long time.
at the end of last year we put our final year hurahh on paper and it's quite a concept.
from reading this people seem negative about our ideas.
we are planning on running a non FS regular appearance engine along with a turbo and a complex drive system.
it's not even the start of term yet and all the components to prove the engine package are here, parts are being fabricated and we are scheduling a first start up for the end of next week.
is that such a bad thing. we could always revert if it didn't work.
I think the opinions of some would see progress and learning restricted. we need to make a break from the normal. how can you possibly prove an engine concept with no team money. Impossible.
lets see how it goes and keep our minds a little more open.

[Jon Burford]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

I think the GT12 has already been placed back in the cabinet. This thread has done wonders. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The GT12 has arrived and is not going back in the cupboard.

[atm92484]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jon Burford:
I am a key member of a team that has had a very constant theme for a long time.
at the end of last year we put our final year hurahh on paper and it's quite a concept.
from reading this people seem negative about our ideas.
we are planning on running a non FS regular appearance engine along with a turbo and a complex drive system.
it's not even the start of term yet and all the components to prove the engine package are here, parts are being fabricated and we are scheduling a first start up for the end of next week.
is that such a bad thing. we could always revert if it didn't work.
I think the opinions of some would see progress and learning restricted. we need to make a break from the normal. how can you possibly prove an engine concept with no team money. Impossible.
lets see how it goes and keep our minds a little more open. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Its usually not a matter of wanting to restrict learning and creativity but rather that the kids that are obsessed with the stuff are total flakes. You're better off putting the money in a trash bag and lighting it on fire than giving them a budget.

If you get a few people that "get it" (which considering you have your stuff now and not in March sounds like you do) you will probably get something halfway decent. Turbocharging an engine isn't exactly rocket science. Its when you get the kids that want to do no actual engineering/design work, bolt on a turbo, play with the tuning software, and expect that it will all come together and knock out 500 hp after they spend a massive 20 hours in the shop each semester that you have a problem. Those are the kids that either need to get with the program and realize this is an engineering design competition and it requires work or join a resume building club with an engineering related name and get with selling hoagies.

[bob.paasch]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jon Burford:
I am a key member of a team that has had a very constant theme for a long time.
at the end of last year we put our final year hurahh on paper and it's quite a concept.
from reading this people seem negative about our ideas.
we are planning on running a non FS regular appearance engine along with a turbo and a complex drive system.
it's not even the start of term yet and all the components to prove the engine package are here, parts are being fabricated and we are scheduling a first start up for the end of next week.
is that such a bad thing. we could always revert if it didn't work.
I think the opinions of some would see progress and learning restricted. we need to make a break from the normal. how can you possibly prove an engine concept with no team money. Impossible.
lets see how it goes and keep our minds a little more open. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Depends on your team goal. If your goal is to "learn about interesting engines, turbocharging and complex drive systems" and your team (and University) have no expectations about doing well at competition, then go for it.

If your team (and University) goal is to do well at competition, then you've probably just wrote your death knell. Even if you get the package working perfectly there most likely will be little or no performance advantage over the top teams, and you won't have the time to do the things you need to do to perform as a team at competition. As a "mid-pack" finisher you should concentrate on building good organizational structures and good management processes. Once those are in place you can start working on the exotic technical ideas.

When I have discussions with team leaders from Delft and Stuttgart and other top teams, we rarely talk about technical details. We talk about organization and management. And where the points are. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif