R6 Cams / engine sim

[adam shortall]

Does anybody know were to buy Yahamma R6 2004 modified cam shafts from. Also I think that in order to bring the power band down the rev range I need longer duration cams, is this correct.

What are others using?
Also what success have others had with simulation packages such as GT power and Virtual 4 stroke.

[adam shortall]

Does anybody know were to buy Yahamma R6 2004 modified cam shafts from. Also I think that in order to bring the power band down the rev range I need longer duration cams, is this correct.

What are others using?
Also what success have others had with simulation packages such as GT power and Virtual 4 stroke.

[exFSAE]

Not sure about duration, but I'm under the impression to bring the powerband "down" you'll want less overlap.. and a turbo cam setup would want 0 overlap. Whereas at least on the F4i the stock cams have a healthy heap of overlap for high end.

[adam shortall]

I am i two minds what to do with next years engine,

option 1
Design the intake/exhaust around the stock yahamma r6 cams, which is the easy option.

option 2
Buy or make some custom cams for optimium performance and design the intake and exhaust to go with it. This is the better option, performance wise, however at the moment i don't know enough about it to do this design work.

Does any body know any good software, website or books that may help me.

[Mike Hart]

Ricardo Wave would be a good place to start. Do a search on here and you'll find a thread explaining the process in getting a free license for your team.

[exFSAE]

There are companies that can do one-off weld/grind or billet grinds for sportbike cams if you tell them what kind of performance you want.

Designing cam profiles.. I would leave to the experts. Intake and exhaust are relatively easy by comparison.

[Yellow Ranger]

Maybe look into using the FZ6 cam's, I'm not sure if it will help but it gives you a different cam option without having to make anything.

http://www.fz6-forum.com/forum/fz6-technical/320-2004-t...s-download-here.html (http://www.fz6-forum.com/forum/fz6-technical/320-2004-through-2007-manuals-download-here.html)

http://www.r6messagenet.com/forums/pdf/03-04R6_service_manual.pdf

[D J Yates]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by adam shortall:
I am i two minds what to do with next years engine,

option 1
Design the intake/exhaust around the stock yahamma r6 cams, which is the easy option.

option 2
Buy or make some custom cams for optimium performance and design the intake and exhaust to go with it. This is the better option, performance wise, however at the moment i don't know enough about it to do this design work.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do both!

I'm assuming you'll be doing this for your final year project, or at least getting some accademic credit for it. If so, i'd do the following:

Get hold of some software that you can use for intake, exhaust and cam design. Learn to use the software by designing intake and exhausts for the stock engine - i see from your website you've used the R6 in the past so should have a good baseline for validation and to help you get started - it doesn't have to be perfect, just try for small improvements over the previous car. Have some junior members of the team do the detail design and manufacturing under your supervision - everyone wins here, they get some practical experience and you get the management exp. This then leaves you free to get highly theoretical and technical with option 2. If you manage to complete every bit of detail design and manufacture all the new bits in time for testing and racing in 2009, brilliant. If not, the guys you've just trained that year can pick up your work the following year. In either case, you'll have an engine that's better than last years and an excellent accademic project that'll look great on your cv.

Don't just buy aftermarket cams off the shelf. You'll not learn anything other than how to spend money and chase up suppliers. And that's assuming you don't already!

[adam shortall]

the strange thing is at manchester little accademic credit is given for formula student, i managed to do a project last year, however i only have to do a group project next year. it's a bit of a pain in the arse.

even though this is far more usefull than some random project the uni makes up.

[benjo]

Yer, FZ6 option is an easy out. For the 2005 engine, which we are using, one of the cams is the same and the other different. I think the intake has a different duration to the R6.

In terms of software, Virtual Four Stroke offers a deal for students/FSAE teams where you can pick it up for ~100$. Pretty good deal for software that is worth thousands.

Cheers.

-----------------

VUM 07/08

[adam shortall]

The decision has already been made to do with the 2004 R5 engine, so that the chassis can be quickly designed around the engine, all mounting points are known etc.

I have noticed that the exhaust cam is higher lift than the intake, i assume that is done to get the same flow rate in the exhaust as the intake, as the intake is straight and the exhaust is practically an elbow bend.

However when making new cams, has anyone gone for higher lift on the intake.

Also I was looking at some r6 cam shafts today and they don't seam to have any advance, has anyone tried introducing some advance in a new cam shaft, were one valve opens slightly before the other.

Finally, i know Virtual 4 stroke is practically free, but is it any good, i.e is it easy to use, or do you have to go on a training course, and what sort of stuff does it do. For example can you set an engine model were you can play with things like intake runner lengths, cam shaft overlap exhaust lengths etc.



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by benjo:
Yer, FZ6 option is an easy out. For the 2005 engine, which we are using, one of the cams is the same and the other different. I think the intake has a different duration to the R6.

In terms of software, Virtual Four Stroke offers a deal for students/FSAE teams where you can pick it up for ~100$. Pretty good deal for software that is worth thousands.

Cheers.

-----------------

VUM 07/08 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[BeaverGuy]

Virtual 4-Stroke is incredibly easy to use and to get set up for variable sweeps for a thing like intake runner length. It only took me a couple days to understand and get usefull results from the simulation. However, it was about 6 months before I did any real design work with the software. This wasn't really related to the usability of the software but the general learning process of acquiring a new skill. The first time you model something in CAD or write code will never be as usefull, correct, or robust as the last time.

[adam shortall]

I have noticed that the Yamaha r6 cam shafts have different lifts and dwell angles, between the intake and exhaust. Has anyone tried using the stock intake cam shaft as an exhaust shaft or visa verse?

Or is it best to do some sort of simulation and get completely custom cam shafts made up?

Or does anyone know anything about the FZS600 Fazer cam shafts, as I believe they are different from the standard R6?