Which Engine to Choose???

[RaceCatt69]

Whats the best engine to use for FSAE? I would think its the Honda 600. It should be better because of the more cyclinders even though it has a higher weight you still get more horsepower too.

http://chopperswapmeet.com/wp-...0/618568-375x500.jpg (http://chopperswapmeet.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/618568-375x500.jpg)

[Mazur]

Why not make it an engineering decision instead of asking for people's opinions?

Top teams run both 4 cylinder and single cylinder engines.

[jlangholzj]

Originally posted by Mazur:
Why not make it an engineering decision instead of asking for people's opinions?

Top teams run both 4 cylinder and single cylinder engines.

because scumbag steve copies others work, claims it as his own

[Ben K]

Originally posted by jlangholzj:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mazur:
Why not make it an engineering decision instead of asking for people's opinions?

Top teams run both 4 cylinder and single cylinder engines.

because scumbag steve copies others work, claims it as his own </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

....Took me a second to realize his avatar or whatever is ScumbagSteve.....

Awesome.

Ben

[jlangholzj]

Originally posted by Ben Kolodner:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jlangholzj:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mazur:
Why not make it an engineering decision instead of asking for people's opinions?

Top teams run both 4 cylinder and single cylinder engines.

because scumbag steve copies others work, claims it as his own </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

....Took me a second to realize his avatar or whatever is ScumbagSteve.....

Awesome.

Ben </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i was thinking about giving some guidance or relevant advice but when i saw the avatar i just couldn't let it go.

[exFSAE]

CBR1000 would totally wtfpwn a CBR600, use that.

[RaceCatt69]

exFSAE you must be new to this competition. Cant use anything larger than 610cc because of the rules. I know some teams go with a smaller single cylinder engine because of the reduced weight. I was just trying to hear other peoples reasoning for this. I think there should be a 610cc minimum

[cfez202]

Originally posted by RaceCatt69:
exFSAE you must be new to this competition. Cant use anything larger than 610cc because of the rules. I know some teams go with a smaller single cylinder engine because of the reduced weight. I was just trying to hear other peoples reasoning for this. I think there should be a 610cc minimum

Yeah exFSAE what were you thinking??

[exFSAE]

Y'all noobs. Those of us who have been around a few competitions... I've never seen an engine get torn down and measured for displacement.

You could totally drop in a liter bike motor and no one would ever know or suspect a thing.

[wagemd]

Originally posted by exFSAE:
Y'all noobs. Those of us who have been around a few competitions... I've never seen an engine get torn down and measured for displacement.

You could totally drop in a liter bike motor and no one would ever know or suspect a thing.

All you have to do is file off the displacement on the casting and stamp on whatever you want! You could have the fastest 450 in the world!

[Mbirt]

Rotax 600 ACE + eDrive clutch! Do it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...iIrs&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htL8x0PiIrs&feature=related)

We made 57 hp/41 ft-lbs at the 2012 Clean Snowmobile Challenge with an emissions-laden exhaust and a calibration for emissions. It will make more power at higher revs, but we set the rev limit lower to make sure it didn't blow up during the 2 minutes at peak power portion of the lab emissions test.

It comes factory EFI with a throttled large (4.6 l IIRC) plenum. Just add a nice restrictor-diffuser between the throttle and plenum. Its cam timing cares not what you do with the exhaust system (9 degrees of overlap--ran lots of GT-Power DOE's on this), so just route those spent gasses to a muffler. Best of all, it LOVES to run lean (spends most of its time around 1.1 lambda stock). Also worth mentioning is the stock dry sump integrated into the back of the engine block.

The eDrive clutch engages just off idle in the 2000-2800 rpm range, giving it a more natural than most CVT's. I won't defend the CVT against other transmissions, however.

[js10coastr]

Originally posted by exFSAE:
Y'all noobs. Those of us who have been around a few competitions... I've never seen an engine get torn down and measured for displacement.

You could totally drop in a liter bike motor and no one would ever know or suspect a thing.

I've seen them measure bore... but that was just on one cylinder. Sooooo that's a reason to run a 4 cyl, and just hope you get lucky with your cylinder selection!

[Michael Royce]

ExFSAE,
Oh yes!! I have checked the engine displacement on many occasions!! It os one of the things on the list to check after Endurance. And I have the tools with me here at Silverstone to do tomorrow it after Endurance at Parc Ferme if Dan Jones and Andrew Deakin, the Chief Scrutiners ask me!

At one Formula Student event at Bruntingthorpe a few years ago, I was not able to check three engines through the spark plug hole (the teams had not followed the Rules in what space they had to allow) and I required them to remove the cylinder heads so I could check. Helsinki was one of the teams, if I remember correctly.

[RaceCatt69]

I've heard they will check displacement on the top performing teams. Has any team ever been caught with too many cubic centimeters in their engine?

[JT A.]

No team in their right mind would put the work in all year long to build a car and risk being DQ'd for cheating.

[AngryIndian]

Originally posted by RaceCatt69:
Whats the best engine to use for FSAE? I would think its the Honda 600. It should be better because of the more cyclinders even though it has a higher weight you still get more horsepower too.

http://chopperswapmeet.com/wp-...0/618568-375x500.jpg (http://chopperswapmeet.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/618568-375x500.jpg)

http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/t...=824105905#824105905 (http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/824105905?r=824105905#824105905)

[RaceCatt69]

Indian ingenuity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLhHAR3jhrc

[jlangholzj]

Originally posted by RaceCatt69:
Indian ingenuity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLhHAR3jhrc

careful where you're treading here buddy. Someone who steps in and gives the question of "which motor do i choose" without any goals facts or thought processes doesn't have a whole lot of firm ground to stand on. It makes it even worse when someone tries to help you out and you take a poke at them like you did in this post.

[Simon Dingle]

He's a troll.

No sincere person uses Scumbag Steve as their avatar.

[TMichaels]

Originally posted by RaceCatt69:
Indian ingenuity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLhHAR3jhrc

Posting a video showing a team from Thailand, claiming it is an Indian team.
http://files.sharenator.com/genius_meme_There_I_Fixed_It-s1280x985-333786-580.png

[AngryIndian]

Originally posted by RaceCatt69:
Indian ingenuity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLhHAR3jhrc

Does the driver look like an Indian to you?

[Zac]

Originally posted by AngryIndian:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RaceCatt69:
Indian ingenuity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLhHAR3jhrc

Does the driver look like an Indian to you? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No. and neither does the car. it looks like it moves.

[RaceCatt69]

Originally posted by Zac:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AngryIndian:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RaceCatt69:
Indian ingenuity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLhHAR3jhrc

Does the driver look like an Indian to you? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No. and neither does the car. it looks like it moves. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

that was a low blow. i post a video praising them for the successful impact antentionator test and you have to ruin it with your witty remarks. just imagine yourself in their shoes

[Mustafa]

http://i.qkme.me/3q4i20.jpg

This thread might end up better than noob/qwr's 'displacement' thread.

[Zac]

Indians self identify as third world? Wild.

[RaceCatt69]

Originally posted by AngryIndian:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RaceCatt69:
Indian ingenuity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLhHAR3jhrc

Does the driver look like an Indian to you? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i didn't know he was thailandish. i just assumed every driver that runs head on into a backhoe is asian

[Mustafa]

I wanted to type in Non-industrialised Countries, but I was afraid RaceCat69 might have trouble reading long words (Judging from his appalling spelling of attenuator).

Also, Zac, do you think you learnt something about India from a meme? Ridiculous.

[jlangholzj]

Originally posted by RaceCatt69:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AngryIndian:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RaceCatt69:
Indian ingenuity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLhHAR3jhrc

Does the driver look like an Indian to you? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i didn't know he was thailandish. i just assumed every driver that runs head on into a backhoe is asian </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

well you're make a pretty good case for anyone that lives wherever you live should drive into the rear bucket of a backhoe.

[RaceCatt69]

all horseplay aside. lets get back to the real question here. i have broken it down into an engineering decision:

1. horspower is higher the more pistons you have
2. displacment is more balanced in a 4 cylinder
3. if one cylinder fails you still have 2 others

[RaceCatt69]

using this venn diagram i was able to narrow down the decision even more.

A=HP
B=lbs
C=CR

by assigning each letter a value between 1 and 100 while A+B+C<=100 and then choosing the section with the highest total, the answer is obvious

A&B = 4 cylinder
B&C = V-twin
A&C = single
A&B&C = high CR twin turbo V-twin run as two separate engines

http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo133/gerryrains/Venn_Diagram_2.jpg

[Carrington]

Originally posted by RaceCatt69:
all horseplay aside. lets get back to the real question here. i have broken it down into an engineering decision:

1. horspower is higher the more pistons you have
2. displacment is more balanced in a 4 cylinder
3. if one cylinder fails you still have 2 others

1) Number of pistons does not always correlate to HP.
2) I haven't seen any motors with cylinders of unequal displacement.
3) My calculator says I will still have 3 cylinders left. I tried this more than once in case I pushed the wrong button, but it always tells me 4-1=3

[RaceCatt69]

Originally posted by Carrington:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RaceCatt69:
all horseplay aside. lets get back to the real question here. i have broken it down into an engineering decision:

1. horspower is higher the more pistons you have
2. displacment is more balanced in a 4 cylinder
3. if one cylinder fails you still have 2 others

1) Number of pistons does not always correlate to HP.
2) I haven't seen any motors with cylinders of unequal displacement.
3) My calculator says I will still have 3 cylinders left. I tried this more than once in case I pushed the wrong button, but it always tells me 4-1=3 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

you would actually have zero because your team uses a single cylinder engine

[JT A.]

Stop feeding the troll everybody

[RaceCatt69]

Originally posted by JT A.:
Stop feeding the troll everybody

Is that how you respond to every post that is over your head? Just because you can't comprehend the topic at hand, does not mean the OP is a troll. "Great minds will always encounter violent opposition from mediocre minds." -George W. Bush

[AxelRipper]

Originally posted by RaceCatt69:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Carrington:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RaceCatt69:
all horseplay aside. lets get back to the real question here. i have broken it down into an engineering decision:

1. horspower is higher the more pistons you have
2. displacment is more balanced in a 4 cylinder
3. if one cylinder fails you still have 2 others

1) Number of pistons does not always correlate to HP.
2) I haven't seen any motors with cylinders of unequal displacement.
3) My calculator says I will still have 3 cylinders left. I tried this more than once in case I pushed the wrong button, but it always tells me 4-1=3 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

you would actually have zero because your team uses a single cylinder engine </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.consolegames.ro/forum/attachments/f15-sony-playstation-3/166376d1336938967-super-street-fighter-4-ps3-fc717_orig-kelso_burn.gif

[AngryIndian]

Originally posted by JT A.:
Stop feeding the troll everybody

He iz a criminal! And not even da good type wot deals drugs and does drive bys.

I don't know if you know this, but dolphins ain't fish. They is like us, they is mammaries.

[AngryIndian]

Originally posted by RaceCatt69:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JT A.:
Stop feeding the troll everybody

Is that how you respond to every post that is over your head? Just because you can't comprehend the topic at hand, does not mean the OP is a troll. "Great minds will always encounter violent opposition from mediocre minds." -George W. Bush </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So, if this teach you anything, it should teach you how to respek everyone: animals, children, bitches, spazmos, mingers, lezzers, fatty boombahs, and even gaylords.

[Zac]

Originally posted by Mustafa:
I wanted to type in Non-industrialised Countries, but I was afraid RaceCat69 might have trouble reading long words (Judging from his appalling spelling of attenuator).

Also, Zac, do you think you learnt something about India from a meme? Ridiculous.

Developing might be the word you're looking for.

And no, I don't think I learned anything about India from a "meme." 5+ years of posts on this forum is a different story though.

[bminus]

Thread of the year. Great read! Makes me feel especially great when members of a world-class team legitimize hilarious ridiculousness and put thought into proving OP wrong.

[Paul Achard]

You are all pretty misguided. Research has actually shown that three cylinders is optimum for an FSAE application.

http://i.imgur.com/pKKlr.jpg

Removing ourselves fromt he powertrain department, however I would like to take the opportunity to talk about optimum FSAe design in general. Earlier this summer, a few teammates and I sketched up a plan for the highest-scoring vehicle imaginable. Unlike the pretentious know-it-alls (you know who you are) who pretend to sketch up 1000$ cars that could win any event on a napkin at lunch, I will actually share this design with you. Here is the sketch:

http://i.imgur.com/Vo7DK.jpg

Outstanding features:
-Streamlined bodywork to decrease drag and win fuel economy.
-125cc single cylinder, because there are only limited triple options, and because GFR wins often with a single. This engine is packaged very tightly under the seat.
-12'' turbo, because more boost means more horsepower.
-Pressure-fed intake. This intake is fed from the high pressure zone atop the rear wing. Conversely, exhaust gasses are pulled out by the low-pressure zone.
-10'' wheels, because this is fashionable.
-Taking cost scoring into account, it is best to mount a snowplow as a front wing.
-Obviously, all aero is mounted to the uprights, including the massive undertray.
-The whole package weighs 250 lbs with driver (11.2 kg for eurof*gs).
-Car is entirely adjustable from the cockpit, because F1 does it.

As Claude Rouelle, patron saint of FSAE, has said: your car has to look sexy. This achieved in this case since we follow the mantra: Form = Function. Since an excellent design must be followed by excellent team culture, we watermark each official document with ''Show me your balls'', as this is the only way to win FSAE.

You're welcome.

[JT A.]

Originally posted by paulachard:


I want to know what school you're from so I can find you next year and shake your hand.

[AngryIndian]

Originally posted by RaceCatt69:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JT A.:
Stop feeding the troll everybody

Is that how you respond to every post that is over your head? Just because you can't comprehend the topic at hand, does not mean the OP is a troll. "Great minds will always encounter violent opposition from mediocre minds." -George W. Bush </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him." -- George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Sept. 13, 2001

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." -- George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., March 13, 2002

"We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories ... And we'll find more weapons as time goes on. But for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., May 30, 2003

"Those weapons of mass destruction have got to be somewhere!" --George W. Bush joking about his administration's failure to find WMDs in Iraq as he narrated a comic slideshow during the Radio & TV Correspondents' Association dinner, Washington, D.C., March 24, 2004

[Crispy]

Proper attribution...


Originally posted by Albert Einstein
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.


and another that seems relevant...


Originally posted by Albert Einstein
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former


http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Kirk Feldkamp]

Originally posted by JT A.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by paulachard:


I want to know what school you're from so I can find you next year and shake your hand. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

McGill!

[RaceCatt69]

Originally posted by AngryIndian:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RaceCatt69:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JT A.:
Stop feeding the troll everybody

Is that how you respond to every post that is over your head? Just because you can't comprehend the topic at hand, does not mean the OP is a troll. "Great minds will always encounter violent opposition from mediocre minds." -George W. Bush </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him." -- George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Sept. 13, 2001

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." -- George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., March 13, 2002

"We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories ... And we'll find more weapons as time goes on. But for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., May 30, 2003

"Those weapons of mass destruction have got to be somewhere!" --George W. Bush joking about his administration's failure to find WMDs in Iraq as he narrated a comic slideshow during the Radio & TV Correspondents' Association dinner, Washington, D.C., March 24, 2004 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/6ec/2df/2bf/resized/generic-indian-guy-meme-generator-thank-you-come-again-128a52..jpg

[cvargas]

Originally posted by RaceCatt69:
Whats the best engine to use for FSAE? I would think its the Honda 600. It should be better because of the more cyclinders even though it has a higher weight you still get more horsepower too.

http://chopperswapmeet.com/wp-...0/618568-375x500.jpg (http://chopperswapmeet.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/618568-375x500.jpg) Choose the one that weighs the least amount, gives you the most power and torque, uses the least amount of fuel, is the cheapest to maintain, and is the stiffest.

[cvargas]

Originally posted by js10coastr:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by exFSAE:
Y'all noobs. Those of us who have been around a few competitions... I've never seen an engine get torn down and measured for displacement.

You could totally drop in a liter bike motor and no one would ever know or suspect a thing.

I've seen them measure bore... but that was just on one cylinder. Sooooo that's a reason to run a 4 cyl, and just hope you get lucky with your cylinder selection! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Active displacement, bam. The judges won't even know what hit them.