Starting from Scratch [Archive]

strider

12-07-2010, 09:00 AM

Hello everyone,
I need serious help . I'm doin my 3rd year engineering in mechanical .
We are planning to build a Formula SAE car which would be the first of our coll .
But the problem is we have no clue where to start . Our teachers aren't tat helpful , so the whole thing has to be done by us from scratch .
I'm looking for an A to Z guide of where to start and how to go on with it ...
I've visited many forums sayin start with design and stuff but i need more details ..
Looking forward for ur replies..
Thank you .

Edward M. Kasprzak

12-07-2010, 11:53 AM

Oh no, not again....

Far too many threads have been appearing lately with the "please design my car for me" attitude. There is no "A to Z" guide on how to do FSAE. Nothing personal, strider, but we've had a rash of irresponsible posts lately. Yours is somewhat borderline in my opinion. Still, since you asked nicely, here's my answer:

1. Read the Rule Book
2. Read Big Bird's "Reasoning your way through the FSAE design process" thread on this forum
3. Read the six or seven threads "stickied" at the top of the "Open Discussion" category on this forum--most suggest reading material
4. Read the Carroll Smith books, Milliken's books, Neil Roberts' book and others
5. Design your car. Ask *specific* questions on this forum as needed.

Then comes the test it, break it, redesign it, test it cycle. Testing to optimize settings and train drivers comes next. In the end, competition will show you your strengths and weaknesses. Plan on improving your weaknesses for next year (take good notes along the way!).

FSAE competitions have the goal of inspiring and training young engineers, so doing the research, thinking independently and generally having an appropriate design/build process is very important.

Bcohen5055

12-07-2010, 11:58 AM

Google has a lot to teach you. Here are a few links I found right away.

Its always a good idea to read and ask specific questions about what you read. There is no right way to build an FSAE car and this type of info has been beaten to a pulp here.

students.sae(dot) org/competitions/formulaseries/fsae/reference/orgteam02.htm

comp.uark(dot) edu/~jjrencis/fsae/resources/SAE%20Paper%20971584.pdf

fsae(dot) com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/217101453/p/1

strider

12-07-2010, 12:48 PM

Thank You , will follow your advice ...

Barky

12-07-2010, 02:43 PM

Originally posted by strider:
I've visited many forums sayin start with design and stuff

Personally I like to start by driving and testing the finished car, then work backwards. But that's just me.

PatClarke

12-07-2010, 09:26 PM

Strider,
Just above this post there is a 'sticky' post titled
"If you are new here, click here and read this first..."

So, seeing as you are new here, you should read that first! Easy, isn't it?

Pat

thewoundedsoldier

12-08-2010, 04:41 AM

I would suggest looking at pictures of formula student cars. Find as many pictures as you can and develop a sense of what aspects you like and what you don't. Try to figure out what the students were thinking when they built their cars/subsystems/components. This forum has a thread for every single competition which includes links to pictures and results.

The more you study other cars, especially the european cars and high-end American cars (RIT, Michigan, MST, etc), the more you will stimulate your own critical thinking and get a sense of what works for you.

Sam. B.

12-08-2010, 06:18 AM

Read all the articles from Pat's Corner (http : // www . formulastudent . de/academy/pats-corner/articles/browse/2/)

Read this thread (http : // fsae . com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/217101453)

Read the books Prepare to win and Tune to win.

strider

12-08-2010, 08:09 AM

Thanks again for all your advices , right now my exams coming up, so will be preparing for tat and once its done will concentrate fully on FSAE.

Sormaz

12-11-2010, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by strider:
Thanks again for all your advices , right now my exams coming up, so will be preparing for tat and once its done will concentrate fully on FSAE.
This is something else you will learn quickly....FSAE takes priority number 1. Over class, sleep, food...and girlfriends (just don't let her know that)

and if she finds out...well good luck http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

RollingCamel

12-12-2010, 03:46 AM

For teams from developing nations I'd rather start with basic auto fundamentals suspension types, diff, etc.

Then you need to understand the difference between road and race cars, a team who doesn't will not be competitive in anyway. I was the only one in the team who understood it and boy the amount of criticism I had from the team and adviser because they can't understand why I should buy racing components from abroad.

"Then he will be sno-snoed by the beautiful women, then the large women, then the petite women and then by the large women again."

Tim.Wright

12-12-2010, 07:23 AM

Originally posted by strider:
Thanks again for all your advices , right now my exams coming up, so will be preparing for tat and once its done will concentrate fully on FSAE.

Haha, with an attitude like that, you have practically already failed.

RollingCamel

12-12-2010, 10:49 AM

Originally posted by Timo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Originally posted by strider:
Thanks again for all your advices , right now my exams coming up, so will be preparing for tat and once its done will concentrate fully on FSAE.

Haha, with an attitude like that, you have practically already failed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I beg to differ, if he didn't start yet then it is wiser ti start after the exams. Your study comes before FSAE and there is plenty of time to do both if time is well managed. Another thing, in countries like Egypt, grades are extremely important for the wrong reasons, thanks to the stupid educational system. So if you want to get out of the shit-hole you need grades too.

Though India has way better educational system than Egypt but I think its lifeless too.

Mehul Botadra

12-12-2010, 11:11 AM

@ Rolling Camel

Agreed. Well its not that great with no real testing facilities. And whatever they teach us is all outdated. We're still learning carburettors in the generation of MPFI. Just had a page on MPFI I remember. But that doesnt really hold us back, there's always a lot of info over the net!

I just started applying for my Masters course and they said my acads are too low, even though I had like 4 years of FSAE experience!

EHog

12-13-2010, 01:07 PM

Originally posted by RollingCamel:
"...plenty of time..."

Umm... What?

RollingCamel

12-13-2010, 01:47 PM

What what?

EHog

12-13-2010, 01:55 PM

I was unaware that people involved in FSAE had "plenty of time" for anything.

RollingCamel

12-13-2010, 02:35 PM

Originally posted by EHog:
I was unaware that people involved in FSAE had "plenty of time" for anything.

They don't study for instance? There is time to study and be in FSAE. I didn't mention anything else.

Now read well what others post and spare me your smart-ass comments.

Matthew Bell

12-13-2010, 02:43 PM

Originally posted by EHog:
I was unaware that people involved in FSAE had "plenty of time" for anything.

Let's just play a little numbers game real quick:

If design and fabrication takes 10000 man-hours and you're willing to work 20 hours a week on it, how long will it take you to complete the task?
1 person: 500 weeks
2 people: 250 weeks
5 people: 100 weeks
10 people: 50 weeks
20 people: 25 weeks

So, you either need more people working just as hard as you do (and going in a common direction aka see "reasoning through the FSAE design process") or you need to spend more time working on the project.

As a note, 10,000 is just a number I picked for illustration purposes. I tried one year to keep a log of how much I worked on FSAE, but it just made me more pissed off so I deleted it.

thewoundedsoldier

12-13-2010, 04:17 PM

Originally posted by RollingCamel:

They don't study for instance? There is time to study and be in FSAE. I didn't mention anything else.

Now read well what others post and spare me your smart-ass comments.

I think you're pretty out of line. Did you ever see the car which EHog helped develop? Maybe when you do you'll reconsider the effect that time prioritization has on formula student.

Oh and they didn't blame their failures on everyone else, either.

I'm sorry to only fuel a simmering thread, but I'm going through the same feelings at my school. People are so convinced that they can be the one to "properly" manage their time--they end up screwing everything because they just don't get it!

EHog

12-13-2010, 05:04 PM

thank you for your comment thewoundedsoldier.

My comment was more along the lines of sarcasm, however rollingcamel did not see it that way... My bad. But at the same time, holy crap. A bit defensive are we?? We all manage our time as we see fit.

Random Comment
This is an example of me in an interview:

Employer: Why is your GPA a 3.0 and not higher?
Me: I figured working on a racecar and learning engineering first hand was better than sitting in my dorm studying for my precious 4.0, while not knowing the difference between a nut and a bolt.
Employer: You're hired!

Love,
EHog

RollingCamel

12-13-2010, 05:40 PM

My comment was more along the lines of sarcasm, however rollingcamel did not see it that way... My bad. But at the same time, holy crap. A bit defensive are we?? We all manage our time as we see fit.

You caught me on a bad mood just after having an argument in the house. On a side note, sarcasm is also some sort of smartass-ism. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Random Comment
This is an example of me in an interview:

Employer: Why is your GPA a 3.0 and not higher?
Me: I figured working on a racecar and learning engineering first hand was better than sitting in my dorm studying for my precious 4.0, while not knowing the difference between a nut and a bolt.
Employer: You're hired!

Thats easy for you to say when you have opportunities in the 1st place. In nonindustrial countries like Egypt if you have ambitions you need to get out, period. And for that you need good grades too because the main possible way is by continuing studying abroad. Yes, engineering experience from FSAE is invaluable but we need good grades too that is something an Indian or Egyptian understands well.

EHog

12-13-2010, 05:48 PM

Originally posted by RollingCamel:
On a side note, sarcasm is also some sort of smartass-ism. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Sarcasm. The official sport of FSAE team members!

Xeilos

12-13-2010, 06:27 PM

Originally posted by Sormaz:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by strider:
ThFSAE takes priority number 1. Over class, sleep, food...and girlfriends (just don't let her know that)

and if she finds out...well good luck http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I guess I got lucky; when I started dating my girl, I pretty much told her FSAE comes first. I used a mistress analogy (she is the 'other' woman). She is unusually cool with it, at least on the outside :S

Does anyone else have a 'lucky; relationship like this?

Mbirt

12-14-2010, 10:20 AM

Originally posted by Xeilos:
Does anyone else have a 'lucky; relationship like this?
Mine goes to school over 2 hours away, so that helps. It was also nice not to have phone reception in the shop before we began dating. She knew what was getting into (sort of) ahead of time when it would take me 6 hours to answer a text message.