cockpit master switch

[Rami]

I am from Cairo university and this is our first year..so we choose the EDGE ecu and i have some question asking for help http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.....first i want to know if the cockpit switch is the +12v ignition switch that described in the wiring diagram of the EDGE ecu or not....and if not please tell me how to connect it...second i want to know if there any switches other than the three switches that described in the rules (master,cockpit,brake over travel) and i mean by that is how we start the car

[Rami]

sorry i forgot to mention that our engine is cbr 600 rr 07-08....so in the starting system what can i use from the stock harness and what not

[Jon_UBCO]

The cockpit kill switch is independant of the ignition switch. I believe it must be a push-pull type switch that stops the engine either directly or via a relay. You could wire it into the stock killswitch circuit for the motorcycle.

On our car all power to the injector relay and injectors is cut when that switch is opened.

[Jon Burford]

Hi Rami.
The cockpit kill switch must stop the engine, i.e it must turn off the the ignition and fuel, I.e the ECU and fuel pump, to save space on a tight panel we use ours as our main engine swicth. The switch turns on and off the main ECU relay, (our fuel pump is contoled by the ECU, so if the ECU is off, so is the fuel)

With regards to the brake over travel switch, it's essentially in series with our cockpit switch (it does the same)

The roll hoop mounted master switch, must kill all electrics, not just the engine, our main battery cable runs through it. Note that you must also kill your alternator field throught this switch, often needing a seperate circuit depending upon your wiring.

[Jon Burford]

sorry forgot to mention
I have built two cbr wiring looms and they are far from difficult to build, I strongly recomend building your own rather than re-using an bike loom.
it's so much nicer to look at, lighter and you will learn a lot. Let me know if you would like any help/advice with it.

[Rami]

hi Jon_UBCO Jon Burford.

thanks for replaying i really now understand that the cockpit master switch and the ignition switch are seperate.
but i want to check if my starting system is really acceptable as i designed it by myself...so i put the wire output from the alternator directly on the battery and from the battery to the master switch then to supply circuit...the problem as you said that the alternator should be turned of too...so my idea here is that the regulator do this process and reduces field current as soon as the battery is fully charged...so the alternator will stop and i completely isolated the main supply from the whole circuit component and its safe http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

the circuit in the link below in word file...try to download it and please help me if is this wrong
http://www.mediafire.com/?4lww768hwx4w78y

[PeterK]

IIRC the CBR600 RR has a PMSG not an alternator, there is no field coil circuit to disable.

[Rami]

yah ok....im sorry...the alternator is permanent magnet...but the regulator can shut down the alternator at full battery charge!

[mrrc]

Hi Rami,

Your circuit looks good, but there is just one thing i have to ask about - have you tried this yet? We have had our regulator connected directly to the positive battery terminal in the past and for some strange reason, the car continues to run even after the main rotary switch is turned off. I'm looking for other 600RR users who can comment on this. The only way i could make the main rotary switch kill the engine was to make the main rotary switch also cut the positive regulator feed also. This might sound crazy I know..

[Jon Burford]

We have always connected the regulator through a secondary switched circuit in our master switch.
I intend to do the same with our new engine. it seems to have the same regulator. Never tried it un switched. I guess it would depend exactly how your system is wired.
In short. I would attempt to switch the regulators positive wire.

[TMichaels]

Talking about the Master Switch: In fact you have to separately switch off the positive wire of the regulator and separate it from the other potentials, if you want to be rules compliant. It is just not enforced at most events.
This is why the switch shown in the rules is able to disconnect three poles from each other.
There is a document with a clarification regarding this on the FSG website: http://www.formulastudent.de/u...master_switch_07.pdf (http://www.formulastudent.de/uploads/media/20060411_Guideline_for_electrical_systems_and_mast er_switch_07.pdf)
The provided drawing is not completely accurate, since one may assume that the rectifier and 12V+ behind the switch are still connected, but they are not.

[Rex Chan]

We connect the positive (power) leads from the rectifier/voltage reg (thing with massive fins/heatsink) to the positive of the battery. However, the power for ECU/starter relay is controlled/cut by the battery kill switch/isolator.

This means that if the kill switch is turned off, the engine will turn off, even if the alternator still charges the battery while it spins down. Wiring it this way has worked for us this year (never had an issue with engine still running with kill switch off).

[Nicky]

There is a document with a clarification regarding this on the FSG website: http://www.formulastudent.de/u...master_switch_07.pdf
The provided drawing is not completely accurate, since one may assume that the rectifier and 12V+ behind the switch are still connected, but they are not.

@Tobias: I did not understand the difference between +12V Supply for rectifier and +12V from rectifier. I remember the rectifier that came along with our Honda CBR F4i having 7 wires coming out. Out of these 3 were for the generator, 2(green) for the ground which were clubbed together and connected to the chassis, while the other 2(red) were clubbed together and connected to the positive of the battery terminal.

We pretty much have the same topology as what Rex Chan mentioned above. The positive of the loads is on one side of the master switch, while the battery positive and the rectifier positive are on the other side. Hence having a switch between the generator/storage side and the loads.

Could you please explain the difference in the two?



@Mrrc: I had this same problem in 2010. The master switch was controlling the grounding of all loads. I had the battery negative on one side of the switch while the chassis ground on the other side. The engine would continue to run even when the switch was turned off. The reason for this was that the rectifier gnd(connected to chassis gnd) provides a floating ground above the battery ground which continues to allow power to circulate from the rectifier(+ve)-loads-rectifier(-ve).

The solution to this was to disconnect the rectifier(-ve) from the chassis and connect it to the battery(-ve) side terminal of the master switch.

We now have our master switch disconnect/connect the positive supply only.