Melbourne F1 GP: FSAE Social Night and Wind Tunnel Party

[Scott Wordley]

Hi guys,

We have a lot of Aussie FSAE teams in Melbourne this weekend on display at the Melbourne F1 GP.

Tomorrow Monash and RMIT electric will be doing a driving demonstration on the main straight at 12pm. Possibly the first time any FSAE cars have been on-track during an F1 weekend? Hopefully we can get some of the video and post it online.

We are also trying to arrange dinner and drinks on Friday night for all the Victorian teams and also the interstate teams who are visiting (ECU, UWA etc).

The plan is to meet for dinner at the Espy from 6:30pm onwards

The Esplanade Hotel
11 The Esplanade St Kilda VIC 3182.
http://www.espy.com.au/#/GIG_GUIDE/GIGS/1632012/

They have good cheap pizza and a deck overlooking the bay. Walking distance from the GP track. Lots of live bands on that night across 3 stages.

Get down there if you can. All teams and Alumni welcome.

If you want to get in contact with the Monash guys call Marty on 0405 548317 or Luke on 0421047476.

Also it looks as though we are going to be throwing the first Monash Wind Tunnel Party for 2012 next Monday after GP. Kicking off from 7am.

We have arranged ECU (with their massive wings) and UWA to come in and see how good their aero really is. RMIT and Swinny, if you guys are interested also please contact us, we might be able to fit you in as well.

Interested in everyone's predictions on the aero effect of the infamous UWA wheel pods?

Also who will pull more downforce total? ECU or Monash?

Place your bets here, all will be revealed on Tuesday next week!

[Scott Wordley]

Hi guys,

We have a lot of Aussie FSAE teams in Melbourne this weekend on display at the Melbourne F1 GP.

Tomorrow Monash and RMIT electric will be doing a driving demonstration on the main straight at 12pm. Possibly the first time any FSAE cars have been on-track during an F1 weekend? Hopefully we can get some of the video and post it online.

We are also trying to arrange dinner and drinks on Friday night for all the Victorian teams and also the interstate teams who are visiting (ECU, UWA etc).

The plan is to meet for dinner at the Espy from 6:30pm onwards

The Esplanade Hotel
11 The Esplanade St Kilda VIC 3182.
http://www.espy.com.au/#/GIG_GUIDE/GIGS/1632012/

They have good cheap pizza and a deck overlooking the bay. Walking distance from the GP track. Lots of live bands on that night across 3 stages.

Get down there if you can. All teams and Alumni welcome.

If you want to get in contact with the Monash guys call Marty on 0405 548317 or Luke on 0421047476.

Also it looks as though we are going to be throwing the first Monash Wind Tunnel Party for 2012 next Monday after GP. Kicking off from 7am.

We have arranged ECU (with their massive wings) and UWA to come in and see how good their aero really is. RMIT and Swinny, if you guys are interested also please contact us, we might be able to fit you in as well.

Interested in everyone's predictions on the aero effect of the infamous UWA wheel pods?

Also who will pull more downforce total? ECU or Monash?

Place your bets here, all will be revealed on Tuesday next week!

[NickFavazzo]

Looking forward to it, and the windtunnel!

[Natalie Ajay]

Hi all,

If you are coming along to the Wind Tunnel event on Monday the 19th of March at Monash, We'll be holding a breakfast at 7am till about 8:30am.

Please bring along $5 for breaky which will get you two bacon and egg sangas on the bbq (or toast and spreads) and lots of coffee!

If you're interested in coming, please email natalie.ajay@monashmotorsport.com with how many people from your team will be attending! The more the merrier!

Cheers,
Natalie.

[NickFavazzo]

Bump out for the gp is Monday morning, if we're good on Sunday we can be packed ready to go but brekky at 7 nay be a push for Uwa.

[Scott Wordley]

You should be able to get out between 8 and 9pm on Sunday night if you hang around.
Have a chat with the organisers and look at the access details on your parking and truck passes.

Also there are 200 free tickets available to the GP today (Friday) if anyone can make it. They are at Gate 2, just turn up and say you are from FSAE.

Scott

[Rex Chan]

I've just uploaded videos of the UWA with smoke/flow vis onto fb here:

Monash Wind Tunnel Party: UWA2011 *WITH* wheel fairings/undertray (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10150633067288036)

Monash Wind Tunnel Party: UWAM2011 without wheel pods/undertray (http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150632939998036)
Monash Wind Tunnel Party: UWAM2011 without wheel pods & undertray (http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150632941383036)
Monash Wind Tunnel Party: UWAM2011 w/out wheel pods/undertray RHS (http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150632942383036)

Photos of both ECU and UWA in the tunnel are here: Monash Wind Tunnel Party: ECU and UWA (http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150633064273036.395605.559588035&type=3)

UWA wheelpods DO cut drag, and ECU's big wings make more DF than my Monash wings on the 2011 Melbourne Uni car. A lot more.

[Alex Ayres]

Results from the wind tunnel are in!! We pulled a maximum of just over 60Kg @ 60km/h.

This is a slightly under exaggerated figure due to the lack of ground effect on the front wing, on the track we would expect to see a bit more than that. Here is a link to a flow vis video from the day http://vimeo.com/39198946

I would like to say a huge thank you to the guys at Monash for letting us in the tunnel. I wonder how our results compare to theirs??

Alex.

[Rex Chan]

Alex: what was the front:rear DF distribution? And how much drag at 60kg/60kmh?

I still have to chase up my data... Sorry for the delay.

[Fantomas]

Hi,
I noticed on the videos that Scott is doing quite some work during the wind tunnel tests, but the FSAE rules clearly prohibit this...

Fantomas

[Alex Ayres]

Rex, Drag was quite high, about 35Kg @ 60Km/h. Lucky we have a 4 to carry that rear wing around. Balance was roughly a 40/60 F/R split in the highest downforce configuration.

Fantomas, Unfortunately very few members of the ECU team were actually able to attend the "wind tunnel party" (only 2 students). I presume Scott was merely filling in these blank positions. After all no one on our team has had any prior wind tunnel experience.

Alex.

[Fantomas]

He did it also in the videos showing the UWAM car, so I see a pattern here.

Fantomas

[JWard]

Fantomas, what is the exact rule for this? As I see it, the team are using facilities that are closed to most teams, and as such can't just roll on in and be expected to operate a wind tunnel on their own. Both from the universities H&S point of view, and because these facilities are expensive.

In the spirit of promoting excellence in engineering education, what is the necessity for outing a team trying to learn about gathering empirical engineering data from another teams wind tunnel, on an aero package they designed themselves using their own CAD tools (I believe was stated in some previous thread)?

I could see your problem with it if they had copied some other teams aero design, and commercially outsourced the wind tunnel testing to professionals and sat back and let the data role in?

@ECU, Monash. Good for you lads. looks like a great job for a first year aero package from what I can tell / what's been said! And good on monash for opening this thing up.

[Kevin Hayward]

Fantomas,

I assume you are referring to rule A5.3:

Additionally, Faculty Advisors may not fabricate nor assemble any components nor assist in the preparation, maintenance, testing or operation of the vehicle.

Scott is not the faculty advisor for Melbourne, UWA or ECU. In operating the wind tunnel he is acting in his capacity as an aerodynamics testing professional. Following rules in section A6 put restrictions on professional involvement with the team. Scott did not determine the tests that were to be conducted, nor has he made any design decisions etc. as per the requirements for professionals.

If we want to open this issue up most teams skirt around rule A6.1 that restricts professionals from having direct involvement with the conception, design, fabrication and maintenance of the vehicles. A good example is the emergence of systems designed specifically for FSAE. One case is the Drexler differential. In the past teams would use parts designed for other applications with significant modifications and custom housings. Now you buy a purpose built complex system off the shelf.

I want to make it clear that I have no problem with companies like Drexler being involved at the level that they are, but it is clearly more against the spirit of the competition than a faculty advisor for another team helping to operate a professional testing facility. The former reduces the workload and learning opportunities for the students the latter increases them.

Kev

[Z]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alex Ayres:
Drag was quite high, about 35Kg @ 60Km/h... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Alex,

High mounted rear wing = air brake! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

(The video shows why...)

Z

[Kevin Hayward]

To put a few "rough" numbers using the Australian track data (from the ECU guys) the following sensitivites apply for the fuel economy event:

1kg drag (@60km/h) ~0.6 points
1kg weight ~0.5 points
1% extra fuel efficiency ~5 points
Coasting vs. Pushing (~1-2s a lap) ~15 points (based on ECU fuel usage from 1st endurance to 2nd endurance)

This is for Australia with fuel economy worth 125 points. Other teams feel free to correct if you have better sensitivity numbers. A couple of assumptions:

- Based on running the same lap time. This does not take into account the increase in points due to better lap times from lower drag or more downforce

- Using an estimated fuel efficiency of 30%


A couple of things to take from this:

There is only about 2-3 points on fuel economy to be had by going low drag (drag for no wings ECU was 7.5kg@60km/h). If you want to make it work for fuel usage you need to do the bodywork stuff for less than 5kg.

The 35kg air brake costs about 18 points in fuel economy. DRS could reduce this to about a half based on the low drag setting tested in the wind tunnel.


Kev

[Alex Ayres]

Interesting point Kev,
However, I think you were slightly adrift on some points.

http://chickenonaraft.com/

This link should clear up any queries you may have previously had.

Thanks, Alex

[Thrainer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rex Chan:
UWA2011 *WITH* wheel fairings/undertray
UWAM2011 without wheel pods/undertray

UWA wheelpods DO cut drag ... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can we get any info how much downforce and drag is produced by UWA's undertray?

[Pete Marsh]

I wasn't there, and haven't seen the results, but...
The test was done with the car slightly suspended, so ground effects, and downforce data, are not relevant.
The fairings reduced drag by about 15% compared to a stationary tyre. The feeling is the difference would be greater with a spinning tyre.

Pete

[Rex Chan]

Yeah, you need a moving ground plane to do undertray stuff. MOnash tested their 2011 with pressure taps in the tunnel, but only to check their data logging gear was working.

Even the front wing (in ground effect) apparently isn't well tested in the tunnel (i.e. will make more DF on track than in the tunnel), due to lack of moving ground and not so good boundary layer fence.

[MalcolmG]

Jeez Monash, time to pick up your game and get a rolling road
http://i.imgur.com/jN6XI.jpg
http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif