Formula car style uprights

[rjwoods77]

http://www.3dsystems.com/appsolutions/casestudies/atwork_minardi.asp

http://www.optimumg.com/consult_examples2.htm

I have a couple quetions regarding the types of uprights you see in hardcore formula style cars(F1, cart,irl,etc). I have only seen ETS try to replicate the design. The "ring of webs" design that I commonly see is usually followed up by hollow cast or welded sheet upper enclosures. It is my understanding that this design is mainly used for thermal management of the brake system. I have seen brake cooling ducts on the cars but not close enough to see how they attach to the upright.

1: Is the air pushed through the "ring of webs", hit the drive flange/hub/etc which forces the air radially through the cooling passages in a vented rotor? I am assuming the brake duct looks like a 3d donut much like the toroid on our calc books that has a tubular connection the brake duct which allows a half shaft to poke though it?

2: This upright definitely has two very spaced bearings on them. Is it common place at the higher levels like this to use a back to back angular contact bearing that are spaced apart far for good moment resistance without a spacer?

3: Is heat transfer to wheel bearings though brake heat a large factor in this upright style? Through cooled upright for brake ducting and to keep bearings from roasting?

4: Do these types of upright try to do internal cv capture ala large thin section on cv cups like I have seen around here?

[rjwoods77]

http://www.3dsystems.com/appsolutions/casestudies/atwork_minardi.asp

http://www.optimumg.com/consult_examples2.htm

I have a couple quetions regarding the types of uprights you see in hardcore formula style cars(F1, cart,irl,etc). I have only seen ETS try to replicate the design. The "ring of webs" design that I commonly see is usually followed up by hollow cast or welded sheet upper enclosures. It is my understanding that this design is mainly used for thermal management of the brake system. I have seen brake cooling ducts on the cars but not close enough to see how they attach to the upright.

1: Is the air pushed through the "ring of webs", hit the drive flange/hub/etc which forces the air radially through the cooling passages in a vented rotor? I am assuming the brake duct looks like a 3d donut much like the toroid on our calc books that has a tubular connection the brake duct which allows a half shaft to poke though it?

2: This upright definitely has two very spaced bearings on them. Is it common place at the higher levels like this to use a back to back angular contact bearing that are spaced apart far for good moment resistance without a spacer?

3: Is heat transfer to wheel bearings though brake heat a large factor in this upright style? Through cooled upright for brake ducting and to keep bearings from roasting?

4: Do these types of upright try to do internal cv capture ala large thin section on cv cups like I have seen around here?

[rjwoods77]

Forgot to add. I was looking at some of the various supercars out there and thats what kind of spawned this question. The Bugatti has an upright just like the Formula 1 stuff. The Konegseggshmeggtfreggtedd has a welded box structure ala Denny that they pipe in cooling air non-axially to the bearing holder. Looks kind of haggard for the price of the car but so does the rest of their suspension in comparison to the likes of the Bugatti but thats a whole nother' story. The saleen does something alot closer to the Optimum G setup I linked.

[Scorpio]

here is a very good picture for you Rob.

http://www.crptechnology.com/sito/images/stories/ElementiFissiHome/materiali/portamozzotitanio_cut01.jpg

[Frank]

i think there is a spacer rob,

i've got a couple of good fabbed f1 upright photos (this sort of design) from the f1 museum, will try and dig them up monday

[murpia]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rob Woods:
1: Is the air pushed through the "ring of webs", hit the drive flange/hub/etc which forces the air radially through the cooling passages in a vented rotor? I am assuming the brake duct looks like a 3d donut much like the toroid on our calc books that has a tubular connection the brake duct which allows a half shaft to poke though it?

2: This upright definitely has two very spaced bearings on them. Is it common place at the higher levels like this to use a back to back angular contact bearing that are spaced apart far for good moment resistance without a spacer?

3: Is heat transfer to wheel bearings though brake heat a large factor in this upright style? Through cooled upright for brake ducting and to keep bearings from roasting?

4: Do these types of upright try to do internal cv capture ala large thin section on cv cups like I have seen around here? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Scorpio's picture is a good example.
In my experience:
1. Yes, your description is accurate. Note the same concept is used for driven and undriven axles. For the undriven the brake duct obviously does not need the 'toroid'.

2. Widely spaced angular contact ball bearings (often ceramic balls), but there will be a preload spacer between the inner races. Typically this is ground to correct size after the upright is machined and inspected, and is therefore unique to each upright. The design goal is minimum compliance (camber, toe).

3. I think once you have sufficient cooling air for the brakes, the bearings will be OK. The brake energy is dominant (though I haven't calc'd this myself). Watch out for heatsoak in a gravel trap though...

4. Typically yes on RWD with tripods. That Volvo upright you show is FWD and has a CV. I think a CV may be too complex to machine into the axle. Also that Volvo has smaller diameter bearings so I don't think it would fit.

Regards, Ian

[rjwoods77]

Frank,

Got those pics?

[billywight]

Here's some pictures for you Rob:

Older formula car (rotor removed)
http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/9778/oldnorotorhi3.jpg


Older formula car (rotor installed)
http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/9189/oldrotorwi4.jpg


Looking down the brake ducting on a 96 Ferrari F1
http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/5329/ferrariductwr0.jpg


2000 BMW Lemans car upright
http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/5530/bmwph6.jpg

These are the best I could dig up.