FSAE-A Team Progress

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Just interested in the progress of each team. I know Adelaide and MUR are running, how about everyone else? Progress pics???

[ad]

Just interested in the progress of each team. I know Adelaide and MUR are running, how about everyone else? Progress pics???

[Orion ZyGarian]

Based solely on our location on earth, I think we currently have the fastest car. Is anyone closer to the equator than Orlando?

[James Waltman]

C'mon man, this is an international competition.
All of the Venezuelan teams are closer to the equator.
I think the team from Singapore would be the closest though.
http://serve.me.nus.edu.sg/fsae/index.htm

[mtg]

The information junkie strikes again.

Now, did you consider altitude in that statement, James? If two teams are on the equator, but one is at higher elevation, they are faster http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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Thats all well and good, however im interested in Australian team progress for the Australian Competition

[Brett Neale]

I heard off the grapevine today that Helsinki is coming to FSAE-A! That'd be awesome if true...

[PatClarke]

Brett, I think you might be right.
I have had an agreement with Dr. Matti Parpola, from Helsinki that he had to bring the team down under before he retired. He retires at the end of this year, so I reminded him of his promise earlier this year.
I promise the Finns will fit right in. They go hard on the track and play hard afterwards.
Regards
Pat

[Chris Lane]

We will be finishing preliminary design in a month or two, and starting to build and test stuff within a few weeks.

We aren't competing this year though... =)

[MalcolmG]

Auckland is coming along alright, we have lots of parts made and needing assembly, waiting on a couple of major bits of machining. I'll post a cheeky pic or two once we get it on the ground. We're in the middle of exams right now so it may be a while!

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thanks for the updates guys!

looking forward to seeing helsinki!

[Brett Neale]

We had our Vehicle Launch last night, it was great to show how proud we were of UARC07 to our sponsors. The car's ready for tuning - paint, stickers and all. Pics on the website soon...

[benny41]

hey guys
the car is nearlly finished paint and then it is a matter of bolting it all back together and it will be ready to go.

good to see helsinki coming along too!

[A Richards]

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa249/deakinracetechnologies/Picture003.jpg


http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa249/deakinracetechnologies/Deakin.jpg

Deakin's new Coque

[Chris Lane]

Interesting chassis design! Are you guys going the side mounted single route, because the drivers right-hand side seems alot bigger than the left.

I can't see any suspension hard points either? Or are you yet to install those?

[Mully]

Nice looking chassis guys, looks like you guys definately have some game to get a surface finish like that!
I hope you guys have more luck than last year

[A Richards]

Yeah engine beside the driver again. Similar idea to our 2006 car shown below but most things have changed significantly .


http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa249/deakinracetechnologies/side.jpg


All subsystems where installed before we bonded any panels. Building the chassis in two halves this year was certainly a massive improvement...


http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa249/deakinracetechnologies/IMGP0529.jpg

[Chris Lane]

It took me a few minutes to realise it was upside down. I thinking 'gee those pickup points seem really high up'.

Looks great guys! Bit of spit and elbow grease and she'll come right up!

[Brett Neale]

Nice 'coque Deakin... LOL... LOTS of sanding in that, excellent surface finish. Good to see you're still going with the sidewinder concept, the design judges seem to love it.

[Teemu Ristelä]

Just to clarify things a bit:

Yes, Dr. Matti Parpola is retiring, and he has been very interested in sending our team to fsae-a before his retirement.

So far we have not planned the trip down under, been too busy with the upcoming car we are going to race with in detroit.

Even though, the Aussie comp is held on December, right? So it is winter time http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

This is what we are going to race down under!
http://www.edu.stadia.fi/~0303344/IMG_0898.jpg (http://www.edu.stadia.fi/%7E0303344/IMG_0898.jpg)


Teemu Ristelä
Technical Manager
Helsinki Polytechnic
Formula Engineering Team

PS. Pat, thank you for your kind words concerning our track performance. Don´t know what you ment with the "play hard afterwards" though...

[Brett Neale]

Damn I was looking forward to seeing your car Teemu... Good luck with the ice racing, looks like awesome fun!

[Brett Neale]

Final UARC07 pics are up! Taken just before the Vehicle Launch...

http://formula-sae.netfox.com/images/galleries/0000/0197/IMG_0231.JPG

As always, more pics on the website!

[Chris Lane]

Great looking car!

Best of luck in the comp!

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awesome stuff brett!

plenty of time for final testing

[MalcolmG]

ok, I said I'd put a pic up once we were on the ground. Obviously it's not actually on the ground in this picture, but that happened shortly afterward. Still have some issues to sort through before we are able to start testing, but it shouldn't be far off now

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/all4s/P1010226a.jpg

[Chris Lane]

^^^
HOT

Looks like a LeMans racer!

Is that all fibreglass bodywork?

[Brett Neale]

Wow, another awesome looking car again this year Auckland! You still gonna have the flames with the V sponsorship?

[Mully]

Fibreglass sidepods, but carbon coque yet again. No more flames cause V ditched us http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

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How about UWA and RMIT??

[Big Bird]

Please find below RMIT car rolling just a short time ago. Gone retro style this year, in honour of RMIT's 120 year anniversary. The team plans on taking this car OS next year, so have had to revise chassis design somewhat in accordance with proposed new ergonomic rules

http://www.fsae.rmit.edu.au/History/images/car_2000.bmp

[Brett Neale]

Hahaha nice one Geoff... Didn't you guys have your launch on the 7th of November?

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Brett Neale:
Hahaha nice one Geoff... Didn't you guys have your launch on the 7th of November? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yeah! get the pics up mate! :P

[Kai69i]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Hahaha nice one Geoff... Didn't you guys have your launch on the 7th of November? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Hi Brett,
Well done on your new car. Hope the testing is going well, and we look forward to seeing all the Adelaide guys back over here in Melb in another month or so.

Yes, we did launch R07 on Wednesday night last week. The car will be good to go early this week, pending a promotional shoot we need to have R06 also running for this/next week.

Photos are on the way. We are just waiting for them to come back from the photographer, which should be about mid-week coming. We will then post some on our website.

For a bit of a hint anyway, check out Geoff's post above; a new paint scheme, pullrods in the front end, 13"� wheels, a CBR600 engine, and common team uniforms (or hats) couldn't be funded from within the operating budget for 2007. Looks like that money went into funding some cosmetic surgery for two of the Profs/A.Profs who are looking a decade younger anyway (far rear right).

Cheers,

Kai

[PatClarke]

And...Who is the dork in the cowboy hat on the far left? =]
Pat

[Kai69i]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And...Who is the dork in the cowboy hat on the far left? =]
Pat </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Geoff,
That's one for you I think; I was in Year 8 at High School at the time!

And I was so certain the larger gentlemen in the bucket cap (front left) or the young fellow in the flannel (middle rear) were going to cop it before the cowboy. Anyway, hope none of them are reading this post and marking any of my exams at the moment!

Kai

[A Richards]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kai69i:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And...Who is the dork in the cowboy hat on the far left? =]
Pat </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you keep your eyes open im sure that the dork in the cowboy hat will be having a poke around at the competition in a few weeks..

Ash Richards..

[Big Bird]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PatClarke:
And...Who is the dork in the cowboy hat on the far left? =]
Pat </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I remember that bloke. Ex Yamaha Australia employee, used to race TZ's or something. He was helping out new teams with design advice - very influential, the lads were dead set on running 10 inch wheels but he convinced them you would never get anywhere with those wacky ideas..... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Nice to hear from you Pat, look forward to catching up in a few weeks.

Cheers!

[PatClarke]

See how well reverse psychology works Geoff?
http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
See you all soon in Werribee
Pat

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bump

any updates?? especially those teams that have not posted yet i.e.

-RMIT
-UWA
-Monash
-UQ
-and the list goes on http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Is waikato making an appearance??

[Wez]

Hey,

Some really nice looking cars posted ^^

Thought we'd give you a peek at UWAM 07, still figuring out roll hoop bracings but they should be sorted soon!

http://www.motorsport.uwa.edu.au/Images/uwam07.jpg

Looking forward to seeing all the cars at comp,

Wes

[Chris Lane]

That is the coolest car I have ever seen!

You guys should build one just for fun

[Frank]

I've seen a lot of grief in Brisbane

QUT will have a huge task to get their new chassis to comp

UQ would require superhuman efforts to get their new chassis to comp

[oz_olly]

Hey guys,

UNSW@ADFA is hoping to have a car ready to run by this sunday night. As soon as we get it painted and assembled I will try to put some photos up. We are trying a few new things this year with stressed engine, dry sump and gear driven final drive. Our car is getting the exhaust done today and other components like uprights are just waiting on some small finishing operations. We have had some dramas with tight fitting gears but that was fixed with some clever manufacturing processes. The last of our gears are being heat treated as I type this. Looking very forward to sleeping once the car is finished and getting to the comp to see what everyone else has come up with.

Cheers

Olly

Team Leader
ACME Racing
UNSW@ADFA

[benjo]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Wez:
Hey,

Some really nice looking cars posted ^^

Thought we'd give you a peek at UWAM 07, still figuring out roll hoop bracings but they should be sorted soon!



Looking forward to seeing all the cars at comp,

Wes </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Hahaha, is that Brum?

[Big Bird]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Frank:
I've seen a lot of grief in Brisbane

QUT will have a huge task to get their new chassis to comp

UQ would require superhuman efforts to get their new chassis to comp </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice to hear from you Frank - are you going to be here at the comp again this year?

A shame to hear about the timeline issues up there in Qld. QUT really impressed me last year, they took a really sensible approach and had a decent and well sorted car at comp. I'm hoping they haven't tried to revolutionize everything in one year.

One of the major talking points last year was how there were still a majority of teams rushing to get their car to the event in time. I heard these comments from judges, industry personnel, spectators, etc etc. It seemed the key lessons of time management and setting achievable goals just weren't being learnt. I'm hoping things will be different this year, but going on the strength of this thread not many are ready yet. Maybe its just that the Oz teams don't seem to do the forums any more.

My tip - Adelaide for a top 3 finish this year. A nicely finished car and a very well managed and organized team.

Cheers,

[screwdriver]

Hi there,

look forward to seeing this fellow:
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/1927/clipboard4bi4.jpg

After quite a long period of uncertainty it finally looks like we're actually able to go. We got everything settled and I'll be delivering the car to Frankfurt airport on the 30th.

I'll not be going to be with the team down under, but I'm sure you'll be having your fun with us. Let's keep the fingers crossed that the car actually survives the transport and the Australian summer climate.

Check out our website at www.fhm-racing.de (http://www.fhm-racing.de) for more.

[benny41]

looks like a very nice. Will certainlly have a good look at it at comp.

[Natho]

RMIT have just released pics of their 2007 race car on there homepage, dubbed the R07.

http://www.fsae.rmit.edu.au/rmit_racing.htm

Looks very impressive and you would expect a contender to win and defend its title at fsae-a in a few weeks time.

[Protaeus]

Cars are looking veeeery nice, good to see some international teams showing up again.

We are currently just finishing off bits and pieces like mounts and body work and reassembling the car again. Engine is also currently being tuned.

Hope to see you all at the event

[Pete M]

Wollongong is driving. Better late than never i guess.

All the best to all the teams still in the mad rush to get the damn thing finished.

[Christopher Catto]

Are those Munich and RMIT cars pictured complying with the new chassis regs on driver footwell size or are they still allowed on the older regs? If so, well done!

Would like to get some opinions from teams running composite monocoques regarding how they found it to build to the new regs and what they think of the styling and possible weight increase. I know ETS has really ample space in their chassis and it may be enough to require little-no change. Anybody able to keep the steering rack top mounted (love that design)? I'll be interested to see some launch pics from other unis.

Personally, I've seen the template and think it's ridiculously large. I mean you would not fit that in any formula car that I've seen. Ok, so some teams had the rack close to the driver's shins but still, judges are starting to become like the FIA. BAD THING!

I don't think anything wrong of Delft's car because of being small. I would say that I could not see an autocross customer buying one. In fact I think it would be great to sell the cars to the public in order to force a bit of sense in students and Unis but then again it may never work if a few customer/drivers get hurt. Lawyers would just get involved unless you're racing in some country free of the blaming culture that we enjoy.

Last thing. I notice the RMIT car is very similar to the previous one (yeah, but I know that obviously a lot of things will have changed that are not visible). My point is that quite a few teams in the UK have been historically penalised for carrying over too much. The judges' view being that not enough innovation and learning was going on.

I'm surprised how well RMIT has done. Not that the team or car is bad: I think it's brilliant to have a light car that is evolved from year to year to explore new things, but simply I think the judges are quite a strangely opinionated group. I remember UK judges penalising Leeds after similar entries 3 yrs running, and it was a damn fast car. Again, no offence but I have not seen Toronto's car vary that much from year to year... Is it a case of "british love for foreigners"? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

So in the UK many teams are worried to evolve designs for they may not be able to claw back in dynamics what they lose in statics (just think if your engine has problems or you drop a few cones).

You have some judges who think one way and some who think the opposite. Some "training" or general agreement would help so that teams are not getting the wrong message one year from another. It's fine losing a few points but I've had the experience that a similar chassis but rather different suspension geometry, dampers, driver controls was criticized for being too similar. Anybody at RMIT, Graz, TUFast, Michigan, etc had some drastically mis-leading feedback?

[PatClarke]

Chris,
We are still in the 2007 FSAE year, so to compete at Werribee in a couple of weeks, the cars need meet the same rules as have been in place all year. The Munich car is the same one that ran in Germany in August.

If any team wishes to use one of these cars in the 2008 FSAE year, then they will have to meet the new rules. This is always a problem for the Aussie teams because the 12 month life of a car which debuts in Australia is one event only under the first set of rules, but for the remainder of the cars life, they have another set.

The issue of legacy cars is not as simple as it sounds. Firstly, it isn't so much about the car as it is about the design and the understanding of the design. If a team simply build a mark 2 and mark 3 of a successful chassis without being able to defend the design decisions, then the judges will penalise. This often happens when the original designers have graduated and the reason for design decisions is lost in the mists of time.

Carbon cars are an issue as some tubs are pulled out of the same mould. This does not mean the chassis is the same as last time, and in Germany, Munich were grilled hard about their design. They were not penalised. They will face the same grilling in Australia, but from a different set of Judges, so the results may well be different.

Another example. Last year the Design Judges actually called up the design file and drawings on the RMIT car in order to ensure the car was actually a new car. (It was!)

Your comment about Toronto is very valid. I have seen many legacy cars from the US competition, but as long as it isn't identical (as defined by the rules)and the team can defend it, then there really can't be a penalty applied. What can happen is the car doesn't score as well in Design as might be expected by a casual onlooker...Mostly because the design was not defended properly. This is what leads to the situation with a well developed legacy car that performs very well on track but didnt score well in design. Then the team exclaim 'The Judges don't know squat, we won everything on track so it must be a good design'!
We can all quote several recent examples =]

Once again, FSAE is about the education of engineers not about the car or the racing. That stuff is just the bait on the hook to get you involved.

Cheers
Pat

*edit to fix my stuff up =]

[Big Bird]

A few quick comments.

The RMIT car is all new. It has an all new monocoque, larger in every dimension (longer, wider driver opening, taller driver opening that reaches above the drivers shoulders. All new mould, doesn't fit in our autoclave any more. If you know carbon manufacture, you will know that you can't do all that with the same old mould. New seat design and bracing around the cockpit. All new hubs and uprights, addressing one of the major stumbling blocks of our previous designs. New wheel centres. New fuel tank. New pedal tray design. Yep, it is red, it is carbon, and it still has a WR450 in it, but it is an all new car.

I believe the lads are taking both the new car and the old one to the event, and I'm hoping they take both new and old moulds. Of course, it is the teams responsibility to the judges to prove it is new, and not the other way around - but I believe they are addressing all this in their design event prep.

I agree with Pat about drawing tubs from the same mould, where that is the case. Sure, if the same mould was used and the material was exactly the same, then you could argue that there was no design evolution. But where the mould is shape and geometry is good, then there is still plenty of scope for design input. After all, the essence of composite manufacture is that the material properties are infinitely variable, and you actually design your material properties through layup and fiber orientation to suit your needs. If a spaceframe team showed up with a frame the same shape as the previous year's, but they had completely revised their material selection and wall thicknesses to address desired strength and stiffness requirements, then I think they too would have a good show in proving their design was new.

As for design process, you can go revolutionary, or you can go evolutionary, and as long as you know the reasons why you are heading down your own teams direction then the judges in my experience will give you a fair go. The previous RMIT cars have been successful, so there is a lot of sense in keeping the essential characteristics of the vehicle. The previous RMIT cars have also had some rather dodgy ergonomics, so the current team spent a lot of time working on that front. Upright design has been another weak point, so that was addressed - and with it came a new hub and tripod arrangement that is a lot easier to manufacture than previous. You identify your shortcomings, try to keep the good bits, and if you are smart about it then a good car will come out of the process.

As to whether or not the lads will do well in design, that is all down to how well they know their own designs, and how well they understand the philosophy of the underlying design. Design is a people event, it is very dangerous to draw conclusions from the shape and style of the car itself.

As for the driver cockpit regulations, I was under the belief that they were being introduced as a scrutineered item for the 2009 events. (Intro / trial in 2008 events). Forgive me if I am wrong, I'm not a competitor any more.

Cheers all,

[screwdriver]

First: Picutred above is the UAS Munich's car, not the TU Munich's car.

Then regarding pulling tubes from the same mold, I don't see that anything is wrong with that, as long as the mold is still good.
Just to remind you all: molds are damn expensive. For our engine-compartment, we reduced a 2 ton al-block to a mere 30kg to produce a mold for that.
You don't really have that much of an alternative if you lack the funds or people to develop a new chassis.
But tell me if I'm wrong here, and for what reasons, since I'm not a mechanical engineer, I'm a computer-science major.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Christopher Catto:
Are those Munich and RMIT cars pictured complying with the new chassis regs on driver footwell size or are they still allowed on the older regs? If so, well done!
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't really know which rule you're talking about. Can you tell me which one you mean?

[Chris_S]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by screwdriver:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Christopher Catto:
Are those Munich and RMIT cars pictured complying with the new chassis regs on driver footwell size or are they still allowed on the older regs? If so, well done!
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't really know which rule you're talking about. Can you tell me which one you mean? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Chris is on about the 2009 regs, which has cockpit opening templates. One of which has to pass through the uppermost frame rail and the other through the length of the chassis where the drivers legs are.

So if you compete in 2008, at Silverstone and intend on competing in Detroit the following year, then you will need to comply with the 2009 rules.


Chris

[screwdriver]

Thanks for the pointer.

But, oh dear.....
That's a big one.

Well, no. Our 2007 car hasn't been designed with these rules in mind. At least the foot-well template probably won't fit and if it does, the section B will be violated. The current procedure for getting is as follows: grab both sides of the monocoque, pull yourself up and back a bit until your knees are clear of the dashboard, then stand on the seat and get out.
Well, so be it. I shall try to insert such a template into our car. While I'm at it, I'll also try to fit it into our Fromula BMW, which has a similar-sized cockpit, for reference.

We'll have to do that for our 2008 car though. We haven't designed our chassis anyway and will have to see if we can really get it to look the way our designer suggested.

I do see the point in these rules though. I mean, if the teams would really try to sell the car to the people they like to sell it to, they'd fail miserably. None of the mid 40 year old men would buy it because they simply won't fit in.
One of the few cars, you could fit your average middle-aged man into without problems would be our PW06, the 06 car. But it is widely regarded as being one of the most enormous things that ever ran in an FSAE event.

[VinceL]

Quote:
Again, no offence but I have not seen Toronto's car vary that much from year to year... Is it a case of "british love for foreigners"?

Quote:
Your comment about Toronto is very valid. I have seen many legacy cars from the US competition,

These comments are completely unfounded. Our 2006 car was a full 33 lb lighter than our 2005 car. It went from having pullrods on all four corners to pushrods on all four corners, aluminum hubs and uprights to much stiffer (and heavier, but it was worth it) steel hubs and uprights, a single rear brake to dual, shorter wheelbase, less inertia, lower c of g...the list goes on. Even the body work between the two cars wasn't similar

From 2006 to 2007 I'll admit the bodywork was similar, but the cars underneath were very different. In 2006 our front end was a steel tube frame. In 2007 the whole front end was constructed from carbon sandwich panels with a thin tube frame underneath. In terms of layout the wheelbase was 1.5"� shorter, the c of g 0.5"� lower, and the weight distribution 3% more rear.

A good measure of how our 2007 car improved over our 2006 car is the performance of the two at our own shootout. In 2006 we were about 1.3 s off the pace set by Cornell and Michigan State. In 2007 we were 0.1 s off the pace of the (completely equal to the 0.001 s, pretty flukey) Cornell and MSU cars on the same track.

Christopher if you were to watch one of our design presentations you'll know it's not a case of British love the foreigners. We have done a lot of analysis into what makes our car fast, and backed most of it up with physical testing.

And Pat I'm surprised you would make a statement like that. You haven't seen our car up close since 2006, and you haven't judged us in design since I think 2005, if it was even that recent. Going by web pictures alone you can call the last three RMIT cars "legacy"� cars. But you know they are not because you know the team well, and you wouldn't make that statement about them. So you were in no position to pass that judgment on our cars.

The point is it's easy to call a car you know little about a "legacy"� car. I'm sure RMIT gets upset every time someone does it to them. But the people designing the cars know very well much changes between the years.

[PatClarke]

Vince,
I apologise!! I was not at the 2007 FS event and had forgotten that! I was basing my comments on the three previous cars. I have not said they were the same or that they were illegal in any way, but you have to agree they were 'Legacy' cars.
I just looked at some stuff about this years car, and yes, it is a bit different =]
Again, there is nothing wrong with that..As long as the students presenting the design can fully explain the design reasons.
We have viewed 'Legacy' cars from many teams year after year, some being almost indistinguishable from the previous years event.
I am not one that proposes that such evolution should be banned, or even that the teams be penalised.
I think the rules are written so teams cannot just fit some modified parts and maybe repaint the car (As happens with FS class 200)

Again, sorry if I offended.
Cheers
Pat

[VinceL]

Hi Pat,

Apology accepted.

I'll admit that our 2007 car is an evolutionary design of our 2006 car, but our 2006 car was very much a revolution compared to our 2005 car. The only things in common between the two are the engine and the size of the wheels.

What bothered me about your previous statement is that you would single out our team and the other North American teams for coming out with ˜legacy' cars. If a legacy car is an evolutionary design of the previous year's car then most of the top teams in Australia and Europe come out with legacy cars as well. What Big Bird described in his earlier post as the changes between the new RMIT car and the old one sounds equivalent to how our car changed between 2006 and 2007. I didn't appreciate how our team and our nearest rivals were pointed out as being ˜legacy', when what we do is the same thing that happens around the world.

Well apology accepted and no hard feelings. And one more thing...come to FS this year and see our 2008 car. Even you will call it a revolutionhttp://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[PatClarke]

Thanks for that Vince,
I wasn't really singling out cars at the US events as legacy cars. That situation is world wide. The point I was making was that the US comp has had a much longer history, both as an event and as a source of legacy cars. The late great CS was musing on ways to break that mould, one of his thoughts was to mandate an open differential....That would certainly sent everyone back to the drawing board.

It's unlikely, though not impossible that I will be at FS in the UK next year and totally out of the question that I will ever be at any US event ever again, but I have a better idea for you. Instead of going to the UK, why not come to Germany instead? Cost you less, a better fun event, better quality opposition and a fantastic opportunity to network in the heart of the Euro auto business. Ask anyone who has been there.

Not only that, but the Chief Design Judge, some cranky Irishman who lives in Australia, might get the chance to award you 500 demerits for lack of new design ;-)
Cheers
Pat

[Pete M]

Getting back to the actual topic of this thread... how's everyone doing?

[Ashley Denmead]

Good point Pete, lets get off legacy cars.....

Deakin is driving and all seems well....relatively.

Ash

[kapps]

We've fallen behind schedule this semester but we're still ahead of previous years' teams. Several of us are planning on staying for the week after finals to get some work done. We should be testing by the end of January if things go well.

[Pete M]

Should mention that we've had a good few test days now and the car seems decent. Still got a lot of work left to mount a decent challenge though.

[Fil]

Hey guys,

Monash is driving and these are some of the photos from our launch night on tuesday. Enjoy.

See you all at comp.

Also congratulations to QUT at the Australian Hill Climb Championships, we did the whole victorian hillclimb championship and its really hard going, but you are able to scare a few of the big boys!

http://a902.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/31/l_7634453e134ea2977d93c08e852d490d.jpg http://a276.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/81/l_0dbb6ad3d3e16d66e32b85b286888523.jpg http://a480.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/71/l_89073662983a36763a5e59bb642564b7.jpg

[ben]

Hi Fil,

Noticed the Silverstone tyres. Monash has a campus in KL right? Anyway, just interested as to whether you've backed them off against another brand?

Regards,

Ben

[Fil]

yeh we do have a campus in kl but we actually got the tires because of damon. one of our blokes did his fyp on tires and damon was interested to see if these tires could compete with the proven fsae tires. We used all of nicks equipment on our 2003 car to conduct the tests.

we did back to back them with avon a45's, goodyear r065's, hoosier R25a's and the old cross ply dunlops on the same track on the same day varying only camber. they were pretty good, but they took too long to come up to temp, they are about 2kgs heavier than all the other tires and were 2sec (average lap time was around the 1.20 mark) slower than the avons.

If you want i will see if i can rustle up the paper scotty wrote on this testing.

Cheers,
fil

[RiNaZ]

speaking of KL, do any of you know if the team from malaysia is participating in the FSAE-A this year?

I know i've been asking about this a couple of times already, but i cant seem to find the list for the registered team.

[ben]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fil:
yeh we do have a campus in kl but we actually got the tires because of damon. one of our blokes did his fyp on tires and damon was interested to see if these tires could compete with the proven fsae tires. We used all of nicks equipment on our 2003 car to conduct the tests.

we did back to back them with avon a45's, goodyear r065's, hoosier R25a's and the old cross ply dunlops on the same track on the same day varying only camber. they were pretty good, but they took too long to come up to temp, they are about 2kgs heavier than all the other tires and were 2sec (average lap time was around the 1.20 mark) slower than the avons.

If you want i will see if i can rustle up the paper scotty wrote on this testing.

Cheers,
fil </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks mate. Damon sent some to Birmingham and I've had a look - they are pretty heavy.

We've just built some bespoke FS tyres that Birmingham and Hertfordshire should be testing in the new year. We've done a first stab at a compound to see where we are, which may be a little hard in terms of warm-up performance but we can change that when we've got a reference point.

I'll post some comments when we do some testing.

Ben

[screwdriver]

We've sent the car off yesterday. It should be on it's way right now.

[PatClarke]

RiNaZ,
The Petronas team were entered, but I understand they have communicated to the organisers that they will not be coming.
Regards
Pat

[MalcolmG]

Well, the Auckland car is on its way too. See you guys at the competition!
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/all4s/packing1.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/all4s/packing2.jpg

[oz_olly]

ADFA finally has our car running, we have run in the final drive and diff, sorted the dry sump and everything else seems to be coming along nicely. We have to finish off our body work over the next couple of nights. Hopefully tomorrow morning we will dyno the engine and sort out the tune, then do some suspension tuning in the arvo. So far all is going pretty well considering the radical changes we have made this year and some of the complexity we have added. We have uploaded some pictures at the following URL: http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee289/ACME_Racing/

Cheers

Olly

[ad]

nice work guys!!!

looking good ADFA and Auckland

any pictures from UWA? or they bringing that old bucket of bolts hehe

hows UQ Deakin and the Swinnies going?

[neil trama]

Auckland,
You don't need to bring VB, we have it here.
Neil

[MalcolmG]

Haha, I wondered if someone might say something about the VB boxes. We're actually attempting to smuggle in some Tui but figured some VB signage might help us get it through customs

[oz_olly]

ADFA did some more shake down testing this afternoon and all systems seem to be going quite well except for our front right wheel had a tendency to travel faster than the vehicle and overtook it. Looks like I underdesigned it quite a bit. We should be able to get another set made by Thursday. On a positive note we can still use our hun dyno on the rear and it gives a great opportunity to give some of the other sub systems a really good inspection. For pictures of our failed hub go to the link I posted above and i gues it will be on the last page.

Good luck to all those still building and to those who have done well enough to be testing,.

Cheers

Olly

[Drew Price]

I bet that was exciting. Damage anything else?

I designed our uprights and wheel carriers with a healthy fear of braking loads, but I must complement how elegant yours looks. How long will it take to be back up and running?

Good break with more dyno time though.

Best,
Drew

[oz_olly]

Yeah it certainly got the heart rate up. It has also damaged the front bell crank from scraping on the ground. The bolt that attached the bell crank dug a half inch groove into the bitumen. From looking at the data it failed doing about 1.2g. I plan to do some die penetrant inspection on the unbroken one as it looks like you can see a crack propagating from the tension surface. The hub set up is quite strong in braking but I believe my mistake was in analysing the bending loads generated with lateral accelerations. Our very accomodating sponsor Performance Metals in South Windsor Sydney (shameless plug) have made more material available for us which should be here this afternoon and my favourite machinist Stuart tells me he can have the parts finished Thursday night.

Cheers

Olly

[oz_olly]

Unfortunately the ADFA team has some more bad news to report. Today during dyno tuning our shiny new gear driven final drive made some nice diff oil porridge. A fastener that holds a plate, which supports the planetary gear shafts came loose and one of the shafts popped out. This led to the planets no longer being reacted by their carrier (stopped carrier set up) and the began to march around into their carrier and ate it up. Forntunaley the gears are all still in good condition so we only have to remake a few components. The lesson learned from this experience is to use helicoils in aluminium alloys so you can tighten the fasteners to their specified seating torque or at least a high percentage of that value. The damage may not have been as bad had our lab supervisor stopped the car when the dyno print out seemed irregular. Due to the gears being jammed up he stalled the engine 3 times in a row and rather than hopping out of the car and investigating the problem he decided to rev the car up to the launch rpm (~10500 RPM) and dump the clutch. Unfortunately I was not present to stop this happening and the damage is quite severe. I may post photos but I want the design of my driveline to be a surprise for the judges. Hopefully it will be going by the end of the weekend ready for our launch on Monday.

Cheers

Olly

Don't let destruction get you down http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Brett Neale]

Ouch, bad luck ADFA. It's a big move going a gear drive, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't go back to one after the troubles we had in 04 and 05 with them.

Hope you get back on the track soon boys!

[rjwoods77]

Oz_olley,

Do yourself a favor and use keenserts instead of helicoils if you can fit them in there. Helioils are bound to back out over time so dont build that into your car if you dont have to.

[Brett Neale]

It's now less than a week before Day 1 of comp and things are hotting up! How's everyone going?

[A Richards]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Brett Neale:
It's now less than a week before Day 1 of comp and things are hotting up! How's everyone going? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


....car getting faster.
....body and mind getting slower.

[oz_olly]

If you look closely you may see a spool...

[JaredC]

We (at QUTMS) had our 2nd last day of testing today. A few hours tomorrow morning final testing to double check we're good to go and then we'll hit the road around midday.

I heard (from a random guy at the mobil near Amberley who knew a guy who knew a guy...) that UQ wasn't competing. That will be a damn shame if true.

[Frank]

I was at UQ last night and they were "about to start the engine"

The spool wasn't mounted

http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[Kirby]

Its been a bad year for the Queensland teams. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Frank, Jared (& rest of QUTMS) I won't make it to comp. I'm stuck in Adelaide and couldn't get a lift with the locals.

However I did get a good look at both teams cars (I believe they both left this morning).

Adelaide have a very nice, clean and simple car.

UniSA have a very INTERESTING design, with many unique features.

I anxiously await results.

[MalcolmG]

We've been in melbourne since Thursday, and have had some not-so-fantastic issues, but we're aiming to be out testing again later today to get a set up nailed for these conditions.

BTW, we love you Deakin.

[Pete M]

We've had a solid couple of weeks of driving and most of the problems are sorted. Hopefully it'll all come together in time.

See you all there.

[Kirby]

for those who are interested, the comp is surprisingly smaller this year.

3 Internationals:
Tokai University (JP)
Tokyo Denki (JP)
Munich University of Applied Science (DE)

2 NZ teams:
Auckland and Waikato

Notably Absent:
Ballarat, Curtin, ANU and RV College of Eng (India).

Denmark and Malaysia are not returning this year either.

[Chris Lane]

Curtin is competing next year, as are we.

They opted for a 2 year cycle.

[oz_olly]

Car is in the trailer and should arrive tomorrow around 1500h. We have some minor assembly to do tomorrow seeing as some replacement bearings will not arrive in Canberra until tomorrow morning (only things you can get in stock in canberra on the same day is adult entertainment and fire works). I am very glad there is a long car trip tomorrow in which to sleep and prepare mentally for the comp as it has been the last thing on my mind the last week.

Cheers

Olly

[Protaeus]

We've had a couple of test sessions and run the car on the dyno. Should be down in Melbourne some time tomorrow.