Percy

[K-State Formula Cap'n]

We've been having issues with getting Percy to fit this year. I was wondering if anybody at VIR this year didn't pass Percy and what the judges said. Last year they said they would probably just dock points in Design, but I'm concerned they won't let us race if we don't pass. Any real info from judges would be appreciated.

[Chris @ UML]

They did dock points in the design competition if you didn't have 2" of clearance between the judges' Percy model's head and the plane established by your main and front roll hoops. Each driver must clear to participate in the dynamic events. I saw a couple drivers at Tech. Inspection fail because they were too tall for their cars.

Also, I just scanned through the probable rule changes for 2009 and (unless I missed something) SAE does not explicitly say that Percy fitting will be a requirement next year. I did, however, talk to a design judge at VIR and he said that in all likelihood, teams will be disqualified in 2009 if Percy does not fit.

[K-State Formula Cap'n]

Thanks Chris.

Did anybody happen to find out how many points you will be docked in Design? I'm wondering if it is in the 2-5 point range or like 10 and above?

[PatClarke]

...Like 10 and above!! Wait for the official announcement very soon
Pat

[consig]

Correct me if im wrong, but the 2008 rules do say that fitting percy is a requirement:

When seated normally and restrained by the Driver's Restraint System, a straight
line drawn from the top of the main hoop to the top of the front hoop must clear by
50.8 mm (2 inches) the helmet of all the team's drivers and the helmet of a 95th
percentile male (anthropometrical data).

Why would it not be a requirement next year? Is it common that this rule is overlooked during tech inspection if all of the drivers fit correctly?

[B Hise]

normally its only overlooked if your car is sweet.

[roostmeyer]

Question # 2: In the August 2006 newsletter Mr. Royce stated that, "...the line between the centers of the middle and upper circles must not be inclined rearwards by more than 8 degrees." Is this 8 degrees measured from the vertical or from the line defined by the centers of the hips and shoulders circles? The only way we would be able to achieve less than 8 degrees from vertical would be to place the neck line at a fairly severe forward angle relative to the back line, which could only be avoided by having our drive sit nearly bolt upright.

Answer # 2: The section of the August 2006 newsletter to which you are referring states that: "However, to prevent teams from attempting to locate the head restraint too far rearwards, the line between the centers of the middle and upper circles must not be inclined rearwards by more than 8 degrees. (For initial design studies, putting this line at 0 degrees, i.e. vertical, is recommended.)"�

Our tallest driver clears by 2" without any problem, but percy is a bit close at only 8?.

[Mike Cook]

At VIR there were a number of teams that did not pass the helmet clearance rule. They were allowed to run. Based on this, I wouldn't worry about it to much.

[roostmeyer]

Just a little update, with two tubes cut out and rewelded we're at 7? angle and 2.125" to the broomstick at our intended seat location. If we need to we can move our seat forward and have room to spare with the new firewall location.

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

Is this something they do at the MI comp? I have gone many years and never heard of this?

[cmeissen]

They did it for the first time last year

[MalcolmG]

fwiw teams were docked design points at FSAE-A 07 for not fitting percy. I can't recall how many, might have been something like 20-40? Probably says something in the FSAE-A thread in this forum

[MalcolmG]

just checked, it was -10 points for not fitting percy.

[PatClarke]

Malcolm, you are right, the teams were penalised 10 points at Design, but there were two stings in the tail.
Firstly, the 10 point penalty was before 'normalisation' of the points, and secondly. it was deemed that a car that did not meet the rules could not make the design finals.
This meant that a car which failed the 'Percy' test could not score more than 90 Design points.

For some teams (Deakin and Swinburne from memory, and possibly you guys) the penalty was significantly more than 10 points!

Pat

[MalcolmG]

Ha, I wish we could blame Percy for our poor showing in design last year, but alas he did fit quite nicely into our car.

[K-State Formula Cap'n]

Hey guys, just heard back from Rules and this is what they had to say.

The 8 degrees mentioned in that August 2006 Newsletter was an
advisory. We also said in that same Newsletter that for initial design
studies the teams should not recline Percy's "neck" rearwards of the
vertical! It is not in the Rules because what we are enforcing is the
long-established Rule # 3.4.4 that the head restraint must "be
located no more than 25 mm (1 inch) away from the helmet in the
uncompressed state. The head restraint must meet the above requirement
for all drivers." This dimension is a basic safety consideration and
establishes the location of the head restraint, and hence the maximum
rearward location of any driver's head, including Percy.

The procedure we are using to see whether any driver or Percy meets
the helmet clearance line of Rule 3.3.4.1 was published on the
official FSAE web site on February 27th 2008. It can be found at:
http://www.sae.org/servlets/cdsNews?OBJECT_TYPE=PressRe...RMULA&RELEASE_ID=703 (http://www.sae.org/servlets/cdsNews?OBJECT_TYPE=PressReleases&PAGE=showCDSNews&EVENT=FORMULA&RELEASE_ID=703)

To be able to drive in any dynamic event, a driver musty pass the 2
inch rule with the head restraint located correctly. If they don't,
they will not be allowed to drive. And we are checking ALL drivers at
Tech Inspection this year.

If your drivers are OK, but you do not pass the "Percy" Rule, this
information will be passed on to the Chief Design Judge for a penalty
to be levelled in the Design Competition. For 2009, the Rules
Committee is discussing whether to impose a defined penalty in the
Rules. In some competitions, e.g. Australia, the penalty can be quite
significant, e.g. an otherwise "top team" not making the Design
Semi-Final.

Rules Committee,
FSAE