Mitsubishi 3000 GT vs. Lancer Evo IX vs. Subaru WRX STi

[absolutepressure]

Hey, so what do you guys think? Between the 3000GT VR-4, the Evo, and the STi, which do you believe is better and why? With a head to head to head match, who do you think would win? I think the STi is awesome, but subaru needs to keep the old design. However, I'm starting to like the VR-4 more and more. It even has four wheel steering (how much the rear end turns, I don't know). I don't like the Evo, I guess I got that from one of C&D's head to head comps where the Sub. won and I gave the Evo the stigma of being a loser. These cars seem fairly equally matched. Anyone actually own any of these cars? Tell us what you think about them.

[absolutepressure]

Hey, so what do you guys think? Between the 3000GT VR-4, the Evo, and the STi, which do you believe is better and why? With a head to head to head match, who do you think would win? I think the STi is awesome, but subaru needs to keep the old design. However, I'm starting to like the VR-4 more and more. It even has four wheel steering (how much the rear end turns, I don't know). I don't like the Evo, I guess I got that from one of C&D's head to head comps where the Sub. won and I gave the Evo the stigma of being a loser. These cars seem fairly equally matched. Anyone actually own any of these cars? Tell us what you think about them.

[kwancho]

VR-4's way too heavy and doesn't really have the poise of the other two. I've seen stock Evos and STIs at autox's, and the Evos have just looked tauter and smoother. Also, R&T just did a comparo, and declared the Evo the better driver's car.

[ScottyB]

as far as i am aware the Evo has a lot more electronic aids than the STi. it seems to be the better car according to all of the mags, but unless you have driven them it would be hard to tell. i really think it would come down to driver style and personal preferences.

i would go for a subaru, basically because i know how to get the most from them, as i currently own a Subaru Liberty RS, and know the good things and bad things about them, and how to fix it!!!

thats my 2 cents!

Scott

[Homemade WRX]

read my name I made my own old style WRX...about 500 lbs less than a WRX weighs...I know what problems need to fixed on the suspension and have done most of them...

anyhow, I think through a course the evo would probably win, STi second, then the heavy/underpowered 3000gt in last...
but the difference between evo and sti really depends on the course

the EVO has electronics driving the car, the other two have a driver...that's why the japanese and europeans almost always choose the sti over the evo in comparisons...that and the creature comforts...

[BU_SpeedRacer]

VR-4 hands down!!! (I own one http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)

Honestly it's is difficult to compare the vr-4 with STI and EVO. Completely different cars. The 3000gt is a GT car. Bigger, heavier, more comfortable (also styling is much better imo) whereas the STI and EVO are sport/rally cars. The vr-4 will probably be the worst of the 3 at autox from the factory because it's heavier and the suspension seems soft at the track. Mine weighed 3650lb with just lighter exhaust. 3000GTs can be made to do really well at autoX and road course with some light mods though. You could put a quite a few mods on the vr-4 with the money you would spend on a newer sti/evo!

The evo has excellent steering response. The car just seems to go where you point it. I haven't driven an sti so I won't give any opinions on that. All 3 of these cars have excellent aftermarket support as well.

Each car is good in its own way. What do you want the car for? Best way to decide is test drive and then decide.

[absolutepressure]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Homemade WRX:
the EVO has electronics driving the car, the other two have a driver...that's why the japanese and europeans almost always choose the sti over the evo in comparisons...that and the creature comforts... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I totally agree, too much electronics suck. As the tall guy on "Top Gear" said, even though the F50 outperforms the F40, he would still go with the F40 because he's actually driving the car. When he hits a turn just right, he knows that he accomplished it, and it wasn't the work of a computer.

Electronic throttles and slap/paddle shifters piss me off. I'd rather not play a $50,000+ video game, thats what my xbox is for. I want to drive the damn vehicle, not go for a ride.

Hey BU_SpeedRacer, how much does the rear end steer? I heard it steers the same direction as the front, but that doesn't make sense. I guess it would keep the ass end tight to the apex and prevent fishtailing. Or does it actually turn the opposite way (to create an articulating effect)?

Oh, and WRX, underpowered? I believe the '97 had 320hp.

Keep the input commin, guys!

[Homemade WRX]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by absolutepressure:
Oh, and WRX, underpowered? I believe the '97 had 320hp.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
the STi's in only had 280 max until the gentlemens agreement got lifted...prior to the lift only the Spec C made more power...

if you are reffereing to a 97 VR4 then yes underpower/too heavy...too little power for tooo much heft... IMO

[kwancho]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by absolutepressure:
Hey BU_SpeedRacer, how much does the rear end steer? I heard it steers the same direction as the front, but that doesn't make sense. I guess it would keep the ass end tight to the apex and prevent fishtailing. Or does it actually turn the opposite way (to create an articulating effect)? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
As far as I know, most rear steer systems go in the opposite direction at low speeds to promote yaw, and in the same direction at high speeds for stability.

[BU_SpeedRacer]

The all-wheel-steering (AWS) kicks in at 35 mph only. Alex was right in saying it's same phase though for top end. I don't know exactly, but it's only around 2-3 degrees. Definately not the same as the front wheels, but it's definately noticable

[KevinD]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Homemade WRX:
the EVO has electronics driving the car, the other two have a driver...that's why the japanese and europeans almost always choose the sti over the evo in comparisons...that and the creature comforts... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


granted my opinion is highly biased here being an evo VIII owner... they have virtually the same electronic packages. The evo has a better sorted AWD control system then the STI does, but the STI has a nicer interior.

have it be known that driving an evo is not "distant", the 8 doesn't have the fancy active center diff however, which my experience is derived from.

additionally, with the evo having an iron block engine, it is much more stout then the STI, and asking any VR-4 owner, they are a nightmare to maintain.

it is easy to make 500+ rwhp with stock bottom end. that is virtually impossble on the STI.

last, i have had no problem handing it to other STI's on the track, even running completely stock. autocrossing is another thing though (i don't mod based off of autocross classes). but my buddies ESP evo regularly puts down the faster times between STI/EVO cars, even with a highly competitive region.

here are some pictures at the last track day i went to this summer.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/homerdoh56/IMG_6776.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/homerdoh56/IMG_7188.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/homerdoh56/IMG_7404.jpg

[absolutepressure]

Hey guys, thanks for the steering info, somehow I missed it when I scrolled down before. That sounds really cool, wanna trade cars for a while? Maybe swap at the competition? lol...no, seriouly. Ahh, but enough wishful thinking for now. I heard from people on streetfire.net (watch the vids, don't read the comments, the people will literally, no shittin' ya, make you stupid) that the trannys, more specifically the transfer cases, tend to explode when you launch for a drag race. Granted, these guys were pushin 800hp, but the evos and STi's don't have that problem. Even though this (VR-4) car seems to be the underdog, everytime I see one ('94 or later) I get all excited and have a really good feeling inside me. One such picture does just that: http://www.3sxperformance.com/cars-3sx/steve-burrows-vr4-014-500.jpg

Another goodin is thisin: http://www.3sxperformance.com/cars-3sx/gallery-steve/image14.html

I guess the bottom line is how the car makes you feel, not how fast it is. Thats a new revelation for me because I can never go fast enough, and honestly, to me 100 feels no different than 70. But what am I saying, I've never driven any of these cars. Still, the VR-4 excites me, the others create no feelings. I'm goin too deep here, and I could go deeper, but I'll hold off.
Thanks guys,
Mike

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

good luck finding a 3000GT VR-4, I have yet to see one in my life. I rallied my VR-4 on good old Gran Tursmo 2 on PS1. I would take the STI personally, just has the best body lines and a good backing of WRC history.

[BU_SpeedRacer]

Vr-4's are definately out there, but they just take some time to find. It took me two years to find the one I wanted.
One of the biggest reasons (IMO) that the 3000's arent as popular as supras, rx-7s, etc... is that they sold so many non-turbos. 90+ percent on the road are NA.

Here's my car domain site for any 3000gt fans
Cardomain (http://www.cardomain.com/id/dsplacementkilla)
A little outdated, but gets the point aross.

On another note I wouldn't mind having an EVO 9 MR daily driver http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Look out for Mitsubishi in wrc 2006!!!

[Homemade WRX]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KevinD:
granted my opinion is highly biased here being an evo VIII owner... they have virtually the same electronic packages. The evo has a better sorted AWD control system then the STI does, but the STI has a nicer interior.

have it be known that driving an evo is not "distant", the 8 doesn't have the fancy active center diff however, which my experience is derived from.

additionally, with the evo having an iron block engine, it is much more stout then the STI, and asking any VR-4 owner, they are a nightmare to maintain.

it is easy to make 500+ rwhp with stock bottom end. that is virtually impossble on the STI.

last, i have had no problem handing it to other STI's on the track, even running completely stock. autocrossing is another thing though (i don't mod based off of autocross classes). but my buddies ESP evo regularly puts down the faster times between STI/EVO cars, even with a highly competitive region.

here are some pictures at the last track day i went to this summer.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
as for the drivetrain the evo 9 I believe and UK and Japanese EVO's all have the active yaw system (the U.S. doesn't) which is what I was referring to. As for making easy or quick power the EVO does have a huge hand up being it is a motor that has been tweaked on for nearly 20 years...the STI motor is brand new (off the shelf cams just came out for it). With the STI, 500+ whp is done with a GT35R kit, forged pistons (but rods are usually done as the motor is apart)...grant it I have read of one sti crank snapping. I-speed was running their 2.8L motor and sheared the crank in two. this is the only case I have read/heard of.

really when comparing the two, it comes down to what you want out of it and how much you are willing to spend to get there...

but for auto-x my 94 Impreza "L" has taken several evo's down...and a Viper GTS too...still saving money for tires and pads to hit up VIR...

one of many auto-x's...ignore the flap http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
http://members.cox.net/drummerboy1784/subychall3b%20edited.JPG

[AK UT]

From what I remember, the VR-4 was one of the worst reviewed sports cars of its time. Granted it was always being compared to the Supra, RX-7, and 300ZX, but still, thats 3 other cars from the same era that you would be better off with according to almost every automag out there, and two of those can be had for pretty good prices.

[Sathersc]

I'm partial to an '89 Porsche 944 Turbo myself... but I'm a sucker for those 80's sports cars. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[My3000gtvr4]

Sports Compact Car magazine just did a test for their April issue. They took the hottest japanese cars:

Evo 3
Evo 8
Subaru STI
Twin Turbo Supra
Twin Turbo 300zx
Turbo NSX
and 3000gt Vr4

They testest them (raced) in

1.Drag,
2.Dyno HP
3.Track

The 3000gtVR4 ( 95 if im not mistaken) got FIRST place in ...drag.....dyno HP...and third in track, right behind the STI and NSX.

Of course i will have a biased opinion, i own a 94' vr4. I considered the STI and EVO. To ME, the vr4 looked 100X better. Sure, the EVO and STI will not break down as much,because their not 12 years old.

But when it comes down to it, its more of a hobby than anything else. Only buy a vr4 if you understand you will have to repair it. I have not yet, but im sure i will soon.

At the end of the day im driving a vr4, and couldnt be happier.

[absolutepressure]

Wow, that's crazy. How'd you get April results already? Were they all tested by the same person for drag? And all pros for track? Don't worry, my '90 corolla has given me plenty of repairs to do. I recently had to replace the head gasket and accidently snapped a chincy bimetallic engine vaccum switch that ended up costing about $50 http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif. But they say it will always run rich without it, so I had to shell out the money. Anyway, there are some really good prices on the VR-4's. I found about 20 of them with about 60k miles and under $15k, some people are even lettin 'em go for around $11k! Good pics to show quality too. The spyder, though, thats about $32k+ any milage. But thats still good considering the limited production and $72K MSRP.

And Duwe, I've only seen one where I live (Stevens Point-ish). It was at night, and it was a jet black car with chrome rims. I was in total awe. The wide stance was totally intimidating. It's a good thing people were infront of us at the light, 'cause I would have been down right embarassed!

[absolutepressure]

Hey, can anyone tell me about the active aero on the 3000GT? The more I read about this car, the more features I learn about. That's a pretty cool feature. For a 90's car, it has a lot of technology in it. Oh yeah, I forgot about the electronically controlled suspension with g force sensors too. That's crazy. I guess there's a touring and a sport mode regulated by dampening force, or something like that.

However, there also seem to be a large ammount of problems with different aspects of the car too. At least from what I saw here: http://www.3si.org/forum/showpost.php?p=2663623&postcount=78

There's other stuff all about 3000GT's and Stealths there, at 3si.org (http://www.3si.org/).

BU_SpeedRacer, have you had any of those problems? Especially the one about the psyco locks?

I don't know what to do. My intention was to only buy a new (to me) car after college, but shit, that's another 3.5-5.5 years if I get my masters. If I get one now, I know I can get one with only like 60K miles on it, and possibly more money for my car. However, if I save up my money and wait to buy it 'til after college, ya they'll be cheaper, but will they all have like 120K miles on them with the crap beaten out of them? I don't know what to do. Or even if I really want that car. Any suggestions?

[djfuse]

VR4 is the best street car period, i have seen people get beat so bad by Vr4s they bought new cars after. This car is heavy but it 300 plus horses stock, awd twin turbo. It is and exotic sports car, not a highpowered compact.

[repeatoffender]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by djfuse:
VR4 is the best street car period, i have seen people get beat so bad by Vr4s they bought new cars after. This car is heavy but it 300 plus horses stock, awd twin turbo. It is and exotic sports car, not a highpowered compact. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i make bold statements too

"my dick is bigger than yours"