keizer wheels issues

[Frank]

I'm from UQ,

UQ bought Keizer wheels in 2003.

The holes were drilled by a drunk. (They were all over the place).

A uni nearby (QUT) bought some Keizer wheels recently,

QUT have given their new Keizer wheels to me to fix because the drunk has drilled the holes again.

My advice: Do not buy Keizer wheels if you are not in the US.

Their quality control seems non-existant.

Frank

(post editted after a sleep, and a hot cup of tea)

[Frank]

I'm from UQ,

UQ bought Keizer wheels in 2003.

The holes were drilled by a drunk. (They were all over the place).

A uni nearby (QUT) bought some Keizer wheels recently,

QUT have given their new Keizer wheels to me to fix because the drunk has drilled the holes again.

My advice: Do not buy Keizer wheels if you are not in the US.

Their quality control seems non-existant.

Frank

(post editted after a sleep, and a hot cup of tea)

[Kwheels]

I have not been contacted by anyone from QUT Motorsports on this matter. Not a call, questioin or comment about any sort of problem. Keizer Racing wheels stands behind all its products weather it is overseas or home. Any piece deemed as faulty would be handled at our expense. We guarantee all our work & have many overseas customers

Wade Huisman
SAE sales & Tech.
Keizer Racing Wheels Inc.
712-737-3053
kaw@mtcnet.net

[Frank]

ill be sending you drawings of what you've produced on monday....

and we can have a nice long chat about it

[matto]

Hey all. Yes we had issues with the machining of the centres, however Keizer have been helpful in rectifying the issue and have informed us they will send us a complete new set within a week.

[Kwheels]

NO worries Franky. Save yourself the trouble as I can see you are an extremely busy dude. I have contacted QUT and replacements are on the way. When the parts get back we will see what the fuss was all about. It's funny how even before QUT motorsports knew about a problem you were on here blasting away @ my company. I gotta run, Happy hour is about to start.

Wade Huisman
Keizer Racing Wheels Inc.
712-737-3053
kaw@mtcnet.net

[Frank]

Kwheels,

Replacing the parts is great.

I know you get these things out the door quick (great),

If some US team gets a SNAFU, then it's a case of UPS the parts and it's only going to cost them a bit of time and a day delivery each way.

But, there's another problem for AUS teams.

When you're in another country, the lead-time due to customs / freight / hurricanes / terrorists (even all of the above at once) are considerable and make this a damn nuisance.

And considering that's two teams from Brisbane in a row, with exactly the same problem, then I think it's time to look at some more diligent inspection techniques, before they leave the door (even if only for overseas deliveries).

Here's the CAD of a wheel centre

NOTE: the inner hole (for the boss) is not concentric to the outer diameter either.., but the cad says it is

the studs are everywhere.. and the wheel outers would never be true to the boss either

http://www.uq.edu.au/fsae/wheels/keizer.dxf
http://www.uq.edu.au/fsae/wheels/keizer.igs
http://www.uq.edu.au/fsae/wheels/keizer.sat
http://www.uq.edu.au/fsae/wheels/keizer.stl
http://www.uq.edu.au/fsae/wheels/keizer.stp
http://www.uq.edu.au/fsae/wheels/keizer.x_t

[RiNaZ]

maybe we can set up a link in fsae.com website for contacts on all the companies that deals with FSAE.

I figured that by having the database, if any of the teams have problems, they can just contact the company's rep instead of talking to some people randomly and to a new guy each time they talk.

We already have people from PE elect., RaceCar Engine. magz, paradigm motorsports and etc. So why not keep the database larger.

Feel sorry for those companies that work hard on their products only to be shot down by an unsatisfied minorities.

[Kwheels]

Like I said franky,,, Mixin and Shakin! Would you like that on the rocks? I am sure that UQ and QUT appreciate your involvement as they have both expressed to me in personal emails how they truly feel. & I couldn't even count how many SAE Championships we have. It Started way back in the 80's. O-Sorry, just starting a drunken ramble. If any teams have any questions on overseas lead times and procedures that do work well, give us a ring. 2-3 days out the door 4-7 days from the plain to your door. We also have been helping overseas teams with shipping expenses. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Cheers Franky.

Keizer Racing Wheels
F-SAE SALES & TECH
712-737-3053
Wade Huisman


Shipping detail on last order To Ausie
https://wwwapps.ups.com/etracking/tracking.cgi?Requeste...r=1ZW8X6496744140126 (https://wwwapps.ups.com/etracking/tracking.cgi?Requester=UOW&TypeOfInquiryNumber=T&b uild_detail=yes&InquiryNumber=1ZW8X6496744140126)

[Schulberg J]

For people having issues with wheels, may I reccomend Real Racing Wheels. We have been using them for a few years now and have been quite happy with them. They are affordable, the staff I have spoken with there has been both very helpful and CURTIOUS, and they deliver in a reasonable time. I am unsure about their overseas polices however.

Their webpage is:
http://www.realwheel.net/

[Kwheels]

Thanks for the email Jason. And to help you and everyone else out, I actually do not drink if you couldn't read through the sarcasm.

[Denny Trimble]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Frank:

Here's the CAD of a wheel centre

NOTE: the inner hole (for the boss) is not concentric to the outer diameter either.., but the cad says it is

the studs are everywhere.. and the wheel outers would never be true to the boss either
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just for fun, I checked out the .stp version of your file. It looks like the center bore is about .009" off from the center of the stud bolt circle, but the studs are all within .001" of being on a 100mm circle and equally spaced. What kind of tolerances were you looking for when you call this "all over the place"?

I guess the center hole being off could cause a problem.

Wade, I'll take a martini if you're passing them around http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Frank]

that is wheel 1,

shall i continue with wheel 2-8?

ahh denny, have a closer look at the file

and for the record, the UQ wheels where untrue in the order of mm's

[Akos]

Frank,

This is probably the worst way to handle your problem.

If I was a supplier watching over the website, I would think twice about selling anything to your team, never mind sponsoring.

If you have a problem with a part, talk to the manufacturer first. I would say a post like this can only be justified, if they repeatedly ignored you.

No matter where you go, there will always be sometimes problems with parts and services you get. Learn to deal with it in a mature way.

Cheers,

Akos

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

I'm confused what you are showing with your cad drawings? are they ones you drew up or downloaded from there site? Our wheels werent the nicest either, but they were dirt cheap and you should know there not BBS quality or whoever just by reading the forums/looking at the pricetag.

Since the rep is reading this, what the heck is up with the huge spline for the 10" centers? its gota be 1.25" dia???

[Jersey Tom]

Those holes aren't bad for a drunk.

[Faterooski]

I didn't look at the drawings, but they don't seem THAT bad from the follow-up comments. You want bad? I'm currently doing a co-op with Hunter Engineering. We make wheel balancers, tire changers, alignment systems, etc. Recently we got a VERY costly 28" wheel in to check out. It had .065" of lateral run-out. Obviously any run-out or errors in a wheel is never good, but keep in mind a wheel will never be perfect. Also, the guys trying to rectify the situation, cut him some slack.

[Frank]

views expressed by Frank, are those of Frank

not of UQ Racing

regards

Frank

[Korey Morris]

I'm sure glad none of the members of my team embarrass our school's name by getting on here and blasting away at a vendor that works hard to give us a great deal on a product that we need!

[Frank]

your right Korey,

i'm an ungrateful prat

anyhow, what would I know about making stuff..

http://www.uq.edu.au/fsae/cam.jpg

[Denny Trimble]

Ooh those are sexy Frank. Good work!

[J. Cheng]

Frank,

I know where you are coming from.

I too have had problems with Keizer wheels over the years on my A-Mod autocross car. Just like you, I questioned if they actually have an established quality control program in place checking their products after manufacturing. To be honest, I don't think they do, but I might be wrong.

The last order I got from them (back in 2000) convinced me not to buy from them again. I ordered 8 wheels (one set for my car and one set for my friend's Honda) and NONE of them would even go on to the Honda's (or my car's) 4x100 wheel studs. After careful measuring, I found out the bolt holes were drilled all over the place and the worse one was 1.6 mm off. The taper seat for all the lug nuts holes were the wrong angle (I did not order them with the press-in steel inserts). The off-set of the wheel centers had a 0.090" variation among them. I too thought they were machined and drilled by a drunk.

I wouldn't bore you with the details on one of those eight wheels breaking off from the wheel centre after 9 autocross runs. I was just lucky that it broke during that shake down event before the car was taken to a hillclimb event (with a 100-mph top speed section and a 200-foot cliff at turn 4) a week later. The previous set I had earlier had failures involved with the rim bolts. Found them during initial check on the tightening torque on the nuts (wheels were brand new). Upon closer examination, the underside of the bolt head was not sitting flat. It was getting hung up with part of the inside radius of the bent centre plate. The bolt holes should have been counterbored to prevent bending moment being introduced to the bolt threads during tightening.


Wade,

It's great that your company will stand behind the products (meaning you will replace them for Frank, and in my case I did get a full refund). However, one thing about race teams is that there is always a shortage of time. Sending a bad product or wrong product always create problems because it will take time to rectify the problem. At best, the customer discovers the problem early and only time is lost. At worse, the part fails during competition and the end result is never pretty.

If my suspicion is correct regarding the non-existence of a formal quality control program, I would suggest it's time to establish one now. If there is one in place, then I suggest someone at Keizer should take a serious look at it. I was told back in 2000, when my wheel broke, that Keizer farms out its machining to an outside contractor. What is the current situation now?

Joe

[LCheung]

You guys act like Keizer is trying to sabotage your efforts. I think encountering problems and finding a resolution is always a very real part of racing. Even at the highest levels of racing things never always go as planned.

I would say the explaination on one of the eight wheels was quite detailed and boring. In fact it was the longest paragraph in your post.

-Leon

[RiNaZ]

where did you get the idea of anybody trying to sabotage anybody? i read the post, it seems like a constructive criticism.

i think joe encounter a problem and he is finding a resolution or giving a solution in fact ... which is to make sure that the company has better Q.C.

well at least now ppl know if they wanna go to the keizer's route, then they should order it way before the competition and that my fren ... is worth the explanation ...

[Kwheels]

Joe, I believe you probably had dealings with our production manager, Kevin, back in 2000. He has since been relieved. This is when the very first run of Magnesium centers hit the track. It was also the biggest problem we have ever faced in our companies history. No explanation for the machining. But I can explain why your piece broke. The first run of Mag centers we did were over heat treated. They were required to be a T4 hardness and were brought to a T6 hardness at the casting facility. This in turn made the pieces very ridged and brittle. This is also the only process in the wheel we outsource. We do not cast our own magnesium. All other work is now done in house. In our records it shows that you were the #6 order in the run. I can't tell you if it was machined out of house or not in 2000. The wheels hit the track and you can imagine it didn't take long for the calls to come in. After 3 months of shipping wheels things suddenly went in reverse mode. Over 275 sets or 1,100 mags were recalled world wide. Only 3 people opted not take there replacements but wished for a refund which we provided. You Joe were one of 3 people that had a failure with a center designed by us. I believe you were possibly driving a Miata, correct? Have you seen the 2005 style mag centers? We are a different company now Joe.
Yes, Joe we do have quality control procedures. Some have been in existence for some time and others have just been implemented at our new facility. Thanks for the concerns

Wade Huisman
Keizer Racing Wheels Inc.
kaw@mtcnet.net
http://www.keizerwheels.com
712-737-3095

[Kwheels]

To anyone wanting valid information feal free to contact me at any point. I can tell you both the pros & cons of running the lightest wheel in available in the world.


Wade Huisman
F-SAE sales & Tech.
Keizer Racing Wheels Inc.
712-737-3053
kaw@mtcnet.net
http://www.keizerwheels.com

[Z]

I'm with Frank and J. Cheng on this. Companies spend millions telling the world how great their product is (see above for small eg.). If the customer (Frank/Joe) finds out different, then I would encourage them to say so, as loudly as possible.

Z

[J. Schmidt]

If you ask me, the support a company gives to it's customers is just as important as the product. We recently switched to Keizer wheels and Wade was very helpful in getting our order on track, I even had to call him several times to add parts to the order or confirm shipping and billing information. In my experience with dealing with tire companies and steel suppliers you talk to a different person every time you call and they get annoyed if they hear from you for two days in a row. They just want to get the purchase order through. When a company shows the kind dedication to toward their customers as Keizer Wheels does (has anyone seen Penske, Goodyear, or BBS on these forums) it makes me want to do business with then again; and we havn't even run the new wheels yet!

[McFly]

I do not believe that coming on this forum and complaining about Keizer's wheels is the way to go about it. If you want to resolve the problem, call Wade and talk with him. If you want to let everybody know what is wrong with your wheels....fine.....don't go blasting that people should stay away from Keizer wheels. You are one customer of thousands, you don't know what the quality of the rest of them were. I'm pretty sure that if they we just crap that Keizer wouldn't be as successful as they are. Wade has made some great improvements with that company and is making it even better. Coming on here and blasting your complaint only hurts Keizer and gets you nothing. If any of you have been on a co-op or internship with a large company you know that mistakes happen in manufacturing and it is IMPOSSIBLE to have a quality of parts hitting customers at 100%.

As far as deflection goes, you get what you want out of the wheel. If you want a light weight wheel, then you will have to deal with some deflection. If you want minimal deflection then you will have a heavy wheel....simple as that. Yes there are design improvements that can help and different machining he can do to help it, but he is trying to get a good wheel to everyday racers at a low cost. Which he has done that very well. So if you are going to complain about the deflection, get blank castings from Wade and make your own. If you're going to complain about the machining, call up Wade and talk with him about it.

[Micko..]

Hi everyone,

This post was started because of an issue we experienced with the keizer wheel centres we recently purchased, I just wanted to reply to let everyone know the outcome. After we contacted Wade at Keizer and provided evidence of the error he was more than helpful and express freighted 8 new centers to us, even though there were only 2 faulty ones, which is testament to what others are saying about the customer service from keizer.

cheers

Michael