Business case class 3? Advice fisrt timer

[adnash]

hI everyone

Our team is entering 1st time FS compitition. We are entering in class 3 at present. We are just putting together business case but we are confused about the judges requirements for class3. I have been Fs web site but not very helpful. I would like to request everyone who have been participated in past in class 3 to advice us what type of business case judges are expecting from class 3. If any body have any copy of business case and question asked by judges that will be excellent. Look forward to hear from you.

Regards
Adnash
e-mail:adn_ash@yahoo.co.uk

[adnash]

hI everyone

Our team is entering 1st time FS compitition. We are entering in class 3 at present. We are just putting together business case but we are confused about the judges requirements for class3. I have been Fs web site but not very helpful. I would like to request everyone who have been participated in past in class 3 to advice us what type of business case judges are expecting from class 3. If any body have any copy of business case and question asked by judges that will be excellent. Look forward to hear from you.

Regards
Adnash
e-mail:adn_ash@yahoo.co.uk

[ben]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by adnash:
hI everyone

Our team is entering 1st time FS compitition. We are entering in class 3 at present. We are just putting together business case but we are confused about the judges requirements for class3. I have been Fs web site but not very helpful. I would like to request everyone who have been participated in past in class 3 to advice us what type of business case judges are expecting from class 3. If any body have any copy of business case and question asked by judges that will be excellent. Look forward to hear from you.

Regards
Adnash
e-mail:adn_ash@yahoo.co.uk </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As a judge I'm not sure what the requirements or role of class 3 is. Always struck me as a BS exercise.

Plenty of people build a car from scratch in a year, what made you decide not to?

Ben

[adnash]

Thanks for getting back. Plan was to participate in class 2 but since its 1st time our uni participating in FS this mean we had to start from scratch not only the design but other aspect of FS competition(Sponsorship,Team Ostructure,Funding,Creating new facilities etc). We have design of our car and we could have participate in class 2 but that leave us no option but to go for class 1 next year and We as team deceide not to go for class 1 next year since there is alot of work to do to make sure we compete in compition with properly engineered design car. We (team) have set strong bench mark for FS compitttion and we will be going for class 1 or 2 next year. We need advice form people like your self to give us idea what sort of business case Judges are expecting from class 3 team. We want this compitition since its first time make us more excited.

Regards

Adnash



As a judge I'm not sure what the requirements or role of class 3 is. Always struck me as a BS exercise.

Plenty of people build a car from scratch in a year, what made you decide not to?

Ben[/QUOTE]

[PatClarke]

Adnash,
I'm with Ben!!

What the judges want to see is a car! Not a grandiose business plan, a few bits and pieces and a whole lot of platitudes about 'optimising' the engine or chassis.

Class 3 should be canned! And Class 2 with it! Oh, Class 200 too!

I think the quality at other FS/FSAE events is higher because the students don't have those distractions. Check out FSG for instance.

Pat

[Ianb]

I disagree with the class 3 and class 1-200 being canned.

We use class 1-200 to give our 1st and 2nd years a bigger bite of the cheery, as our class 1 car is built by about 7 very experienced people.

We use class 3 as a design driver for the following years class 1 car, so all the people on industrial placement enter class 3, ready for Class 1 in our final year. We don't have time to build a car on placement.

Our masters students build the class 1a cars.

I think its valuable for class 3 and 2 with teams who dont succeed to get the money to build a car. Everyone wants to build a car.

I must admit the standard of design in class 1-200 and class 3 is not as good as class 1, but it's still learning, and everyone is not at the same level.

We have 200 students wanting to do FS/FSAE every year, although that whittles down to about 60, we could not sustain those numbers with just class 1.

Roughly the same teams from FSG compete in FS, so not sure what distraction it is, the class 3 is well hiden away anyway.

Adnash the presentation event is the same for all classes at FS. Check out the presentation scoring sheet for areas to concentrate on, Important Documents (http://www.formulastudent.com/universities/Important+Documents.htm) , I can't find the advice and feedback page on the new FS website.

Basically you are trying to sell your concept to the judges so they will give you money to go into manufacture.

[murpia]

FSUK Classes 2 & 3 are more an issue I think for the Universities themselves to manage. The impact they have on the event is minimal, those judges who only want to see cars don't need to volunteer to judge Classes 2 & 3, nor even need to walk into their tent...

I've seen the widest range of team competences in these classes, from superbly organised teams to hopeless wastes of time (where I hope the Faculty adviser got reprimanded for negligence and waste of University cash).

The thing for me is that Classes 2 & 3 have allowed me and my team to give advice to and put back on track a number of teams who suffered from various problems both internally and externally generated. They get the chance to have their design approch scrutinised by people outside their own organisation and they get the opportunity to ask questions and of course attend the event itself. Not too bad for £200.

To answer the original question: read the rules for Formula Student Class 3, they're not hard to find...

Regards, Ian

[ben]

Ian - surely the "Learn to Win" seminar and the similar events held by the German organisers are the best environment to offer that sort of advice?

Formula Student has always lacked focus as Pat has mentioned. The wonderful thing about these competitions generally is the incredible amount of work that has to be put in by the students to actually get a car running - that's what puts you ahead of your peers who chose to spend more time in the pub.

Class 3 reduces this great competition down to a hypothetical Uni group project, which it really shouldn't be.

Ben

[murpia]

Hi Ben,
I'm afraid I disagree that attending Learn to Win is a better option than attempting Class 3. One requires the students to do nothing more active than sit in a room for a day, the other requires teamwork, engineering skills, has deadlines to meet and offers feedback on mistakes rather than the simple receipt of advice that may well pass from one ear to the other without affecting what's in between.

However, maybe my opinion of Class 3 is gilded by the experience with the Patras team a while back. Compared to ALL the Class 1s we saw that year they were better organised, had a truly analytical approach to problem-solving, had trained themselves to use good software properly rather than follow-the-tutorial and made peer-agreed decisions based on data rather than hearsay.

I have seen too many Class 1 cars thrown together in a year with no sensible engineering involved to be able to agree that working your arse off in a workshop after school hours is a good substitute for thinking properly. Modern engineering, whatever branch, is not about trial and error but analysis, simulation, measurement and verification.

Alas, in my professional life, I've come across too many 'crew chief types' with a distain for objective analysis and a preference for the 'when at (insert track) do this because we always do it here' approach. I don't want to train up any more of those...

Regards, Ian

[ben]

Good points Ian. I guess it depends what teams you end up judging. I did have an excellent experience judging Newcastle in Class 3.

Having said that I've seen just as many Class 3 teams with absolutely no clue whatsoever and the hypothetical nature of the class means a lot of the "objective analysis" is in fact just fantasies with numbers attached.

Maybe Learn to Win needs to be more seminar/workshop based rather than lecture based?

Ben

[adnash]

HI Ben and Ian

First of all thanks for your honest advice. We went to Learn to win last year and it was helpful but did not give much info for class 3 business case. If we were to go for class 1 than business case become more interesting to work on since whole car is designed with proper manufacturing and coasting (A-Z detail).
Here how we as team look at the business case :
Market research
Manufacturing detail
Costing
Developing plan for class 2 or 1 next year.

But Since we are going for class 3 there arn't much manufacturing detail,costing (for class 3). We are trying to do as much as possible market research but difference between classes holding us back. Since we dont know what kind of business case judges are expecting from class 3. We dont want to judges to be bored with some imagernary business idea for 10 min. Please post any suggestion or suporting materieal you may have. Thanks in advanced!

Adnash

[murpia]

Adnash,
I don't understand what is not clear. If as you say you attended Learn to Win and / or you have read the rules you will know that it is up to you to decide what your business case will be... It is a role-playing exercise, use your imagination, as a Class 3 entry you have more freedom than a Class 1.

Regards, Ian

[adnash]

Hi Ian
what is not clear to us is, what do we Imagine about manufacturing process at large scale. Do we need to work out:
How many labours needed for prodution?
What equipment required?
Overhead cost?

And we are not sure how much depth we need to go for market rersearch. Do we need included in out business case:
Comapanies and competitors?
Features in single seater car manufactureres?
What make our care unique?
etc

Its first time we this kind of business case realy need some information or guide for business case for class 3 from someone who already been at competion before for class3. Because we need to know how much judges care about class3 and what they realy want from class 3 teams. Obviously their alot different in class1 and class3 business case.

Regards
Adnash

[murpia]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by adnash:
Obviously their alot different in class1 and class3 business case. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, they're not, according to the rules...

Regards, Ian