From FSAE or equivalent into F1?

[samphlett]

Just out of curiosity, is there any evidence (anecdotal or otherwise) of FSAE participation assisting in scoring a job in F1? It's often mentioned and assumed in the engineering rags and forums. I just wondered if it's actually true.

[JR @ CFS]

Yup, Chalmers has two guys from our Alumni. One straight after he graduated from his MEng and one after a PHd. Hard workers, very intelligent. I know there are other teams who have lots more than that and various other forms of motorsport. It can be done, but like everything in life, you gotta work for it http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Tintin]

Originally posted by samphlett:
Just out of curiosity, is there any evidence (anecdotal or otherwise) of FSAE participation assisting in scoring a job in F1? It's often mentioned and assumed in the engineering rags and forums. I just wondered if it's actually true.

http://www.formulastudent.de/fileadmin/user_upload/all/...97_Bramkamp_35pc.jpg (http://www.formulastudent.de/fileadmin/user_upload/all/2007/bilder/FSG07//FSG20070812/FSG20070812_1297_Bramkamp_35pc.jpg)

http://www.formulastudent.de/fileadmin/user_upload/all/...79_Bramkamp_35pc.jpg (http://www.formulastudent.de/fileadmin/user_upload/all/2007/bilder/FSG07//FSG20070812/FSG20070812_1379_Bramkamp_35pc.jpg)

As you can see that's pictures from this year's FSG event. Do you see the four A4 sheets on the right of the second picture above the car's rear wing? That's job offers ....;-)



Tim

[samphlett]

Wow, two very interesting replies already ... and replies confirming what I'd hoped. Keep them coming.

http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[James Waltman]

A guy from our 2004 team is at Renault F1 now.
After school, he went to Honda IRL then Honda ALMS before moving to F1.
I know he wouldn't have gotten the Honda job without FSAE.

[Matt McBride]

always good to hear. Thank goodness someone's getting the jobs we're all hoping for! Too bad we're essentially all competing for the same things.

[Kurt Bilinski]

While it's great to shoot for the stars, have a back up plan of being happy with the moon. There are very very few F1 team jobs, and a whole bunch of people who want them, so have an alternative plan of what other jobs are acceptable.

[samphlett]

kb58: You are correct. I am just looking for data to corroborate claims and assumptions read elsewhere.

[Igor]

I forgot which school it was in the UK, but they had at least one alumnus on each F1 team.... (probably not all ex FSAE, but still)
Regardless of whether you'll be able to land an F1 job right out of univesity, FSAE must be one of the best things you can do as a preparation.

I strongly second that you should have a backup plan though, there isn't exactly a shortage of people applying for those jobs. Try to arrange for an internship, that should be much easier and will open the door for later employment.

Igor

[VFR750R]

I think one of the keys is being different. F1 teams must get thousands of mech E resumes every year from all over the world. You have to make yours stand out. Be it a special widget that you designed or a algorithm you wrote. FSAE means your resume doesn't automatically get thrown out, but hundreds of FSAE resumes mean you still have to stand out. i got lucky to get my nascar job and its because they needed an entry level engineer that knew how to work on dynos and we happend to have commisioned a new dyno my senior year. I 'fit' the job description.
It kindof sucks in a way, because you can never tell exactly what to specailize in to get the job. Most here, myself included, just want to be in racing. I'd do connecting rod design if that's what i had to do to get in a race team. But, without some specailization, you are just another mech E.
Even if it's the wrong specailization for the job, you can talk about your engineering method, and show off how good your 'widget' works. Employeers see sound engineering practices and judgements and know it will be applied to whatever you're working on. FSAE is great because it's a project that shows off everything engineering must take account of.

I think that's what's great about a masters degree. It gives you a chance to take on a real project, and learn sound engineering principals while still at school and it looks good to potential employeers and you have something to talk about in phone calls and interviews. I know plenty of guys and girls that took m. eng. programs at school and stayed on FSAE. They did a masters project on shocks or the ECM, and that could be the difference between you and that other guy.

[samphlett]

I wasn't looking for advice. I have a job and am not in any way looking to change. Indeed my company sponsors many of the teams.

My reason for posting was that I know several people who've hopped into F1 from my company after gaining 4-5 years of relevant experience here, but I was wondering how much of a head start the FSAE-ers got fresh out of university. It seems as if it should help, but how much?

[JR @ CFS]

In Chalmers we have a tradition of attending events after FSUK with a smaller amount of the original team. Aside from F1, I know of instances when every member of these smaller teams are hired by one of the sponsors they are heavily involved with. Another Alumni worked quite extensively with Koenigsegg after he left (engine, chassis, most aspects of the car really)

I was in contact with a lot of these guys over the past year so that we could advertise to our current/potential sponsors on our website exactly what kind of jobs our Alumni go into and how much, they feel, that FS/FSAE attributed to that.

A patron of the team is a guy called Dr Derek Crabb, Fellow of the IMechE, ex-Lotus F1 Engine designer, current VP of powertrain at Volvo and head of their motorsports division. On our launch night he gave a presentation which was mainly about why people who do FS/FSAE are the very people he wants working for him.

I think FS/FSAE is definitely a head start, but of course, making yourself stand out from the rest is very important...you can't just have been the pizza guy, although I am not denying his role was very important on the team http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Christopher Catto]

you work for Ricardo?

[flavorPacket]

funny you mention them Chris, they hired the most people from our 07 team of any company.

[Ianthegypo]

my first job out of university is for Red Bull Racing F1 team, as an aerodynamicist

[Ianb]

I forgot which school it was in the UK, but they had at least one alumnus on each F1 team....

The University of Hertforshire claims at least 1 graduate in every formula one team, not sure how true that is but from the last 3 years, we have had at least 1 team member from each team walk straight into F1. This years team has 2 students who have just finsihed placements at Mclaren and Sypker F1.

[Christopher Catto]

for someone with an interest/ability in CAD then CFD is a good way to get into F1. teams take a lot of juniors in this sector. not sure after that where you go though. sure you could become a senior aero designer but your chances? 1%? I have found that is is harder to get any sort of interview in fields such as data logging or vehicle dynamics or R&D because they do not generally train people in these and other sectors.

Also found that being a cad or cfd jockey does not necessarily then allow you to move into other sectors as easily as you would imagine. this is my personal experience and opinion since once you start working as a bee, it is very difficult to then find time to learn other stuff unless your boss is particularly keen on making helping you in your career more than helping the company meet strict deadlines. if you start higher up, say like a manager then it is different. getting from say cfd monkey to race engineer is possible but you gotta be very clever, be able to do all your work in short time so you can train yourself in other stuff, and know the right people.

i think the hardest part in F1 is that, although you may be able to be bullish about what else you coud do, moving into a new job position and then sitting twirling thumbs because you do not know what to do is not a good thing. the worst thing that can happen to you in F1 is not having a clue about what you are supposed to do. i have found people in F1 more than willing to help but sometimes these people are incredibly busy and there is no way they can follow you or make you get up to speed. F1 has money but that does not mean they train people like say the likes of Shell.

i d really like to hear some opinions from guys who have got their foot into the door and then managed to move around. i d like to know how they did this and what their experience was. for me, you may as well work in some other sector, get the experience and then decide if you wanna be in F1. being in F1 just to do Catia and play about with titanium flexures is not any better than working on V8 supercars or sportscars where you may find yourself less pidgeon-holed.

[samphlett]

... yes I do (it's in my public profile).

[Alan]

There is an interesting article in the September Race Tech about a presentation Ross Brawn gave recently. Basically he talks about how cost cutting has led to more or less spec-series in the lower formulas. This has basically made Formula Student/FSAE and F1 the most technically liberated series. Here are couple of interesting excerpts.

"About 10 years ago a young engineer asked me how he could get involved in motorsport, make a career of it and end up in Formula One...I advised him that obviously a good education was very important, after which he should try to get into one of the smaller Formula 3000 or F3 teams and perhaps later get into the IndyCar series with Lola or Reynard. After gaining that experience he could then approach Formula One teams with a good chance of being taken on."

"What can I recommend today? Go to a University that has a Formula Student programme and get involved in that, then pray that you get looked at kindly by a F1 team? Nowadays there is nothing between Formula Student and F1 that particularly interests and F1 team."

I'm not sure if this means it is easier or harder to go straight from FSAE to F1, but it was an interesting read nonetheless.

[DJHache]

I think Mr Brawn was exaggerating in order to make a point. Formula 1 cars would be pretty funny looking if they only hired people from FSAE. ;-)

[Chris_S]

Originally posted by DJHache:
I think Mr Brawn was exaggerating in order to make a point. Formula 1 cars would be pretty funny looking if they only hired people from FSAE. ;-)

And only around 50% would ever finish http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

As Ian said earlier, off the top of my head, we've got people at:
Williams
Mclaren
Mercedes High Performance Engines
Lola
Lotus
Prodrive
Honda
Race Logic (until recently)
Spyker
PI