Harness

[Pat-C]

Do you guys use a camlock or latch and link system for you safty harness?

Let me know

[racingstuff]

Due to the "lay down" driving position of formula cars, no one in their right mind would use a latch/link safety harness. The close proximity of the drivers arms to the easy to release mechanism and the un-comfortable location on the 6-point,sub-strap, are the reasons.
Keith

[BStoney]

Camlock all the way...and straps that pull up to tighten the lap belt....

[Wizard]

A 6-pt Willans is the way to go. A bit on the pricey side but the quality and comfort is unbeatable. Contact Bryan at North American Race Parts (317) 244-9694. Good prices and has lots of units in stock. If you are planning on wrapping the harness around the frame tubes you want to go with a sedan model. The formula models are usually bolt-in.

Note: The lap adjustment is fixed once you bolt it in on the formula models.

[95M3Racer]

6pt f1 Schroth's.

[Rob Davies]

Does anyone have the weights of some of the top harnesses especially the willans 6pt.

Thanks, Rob

We have a SABELT thats weighs 1.8 Kilos but they do make a 0.8 Kilo harness.

[95M3Racer]

I believe SChroth's new camlocks are the lightest on the market. They are fantastic!

[Rob Davies]

Hey M3,

Whats the model of that harness and do you have a web address I can order one.

THanks
Rob

[James Waltman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BStoney:
...and straps that pull up to tighten the lap belt.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

B.J.,
What are you using that tightens by pulling up? We need one like that.

[Big D]

How about 6pt vs 5pt.... we are allowed to use either, but on our last car, the 6 point turned out to be kind of a nut-crusher.... but that could be because there was a very cramped space to bolt it to the frame, cram the buckles under the seat, and then have about 3" above the seat before the buckle..... it kinda poked your legs/crushed your nuts.... but you didn't notice too much once you had some driving on your hands.....
what is everybody else's experience with 5 vs 6?

[Wizard]

We had tried several different 5 and 6 points and had uncomfortable results will all of them. We found that the Willans 6-pt with the D-rings on the lap belt is the most comfortable belt we tried, with no "squeeze" on the beans & franks.

We run the Club 6 Saloon with the 2"/3" belt.

Willans Site (http://www.willansharness.com/)

[95M3Racer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rob Davies:
Hey M3,

Whats the model of that harness and do you have a web address I can order one.

THanks
Rob <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

www.hmsmotorsport.com (http://www.hmsmotorsport.com) Schroth Profi series.

[alfordda]

James-

We are using the Simpson Formula Car 6-Way belt. Simpson provides a discount to FSAE teams, but I don't remember who the contact is, so maybe B.J. can post that.

http://www.simpsonraceproducts.com/products/product_detail.aspx?cat_id=193&prod_id=2265

[Sam Zimmerman]

Takta's cam-lock racing harnesses can be found http://www.upgrademotoring.com/safety/takata_racing_harness.htm.

[BStoney]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by alfordda:
James-

We are using the Simpson Formula Car 6-Way belt. Simpson provides a discount to FSAE teams, but I don't remember who the contact is, so maybe B.J. can post that.

http://www.simpsonraceproducts.com/products/product_detail.aspx?cat_id=193&prod_id=2265 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dan,
Thanks for posting... school is kickin my butt, so didn't have time to get to the forum in a few days. HA.

James,
Just give Simpson a call and they can help you out...I am still looking for a contact name...

[Greg H]

If you order a Schroth from HMS be sure and specify you want a Profi-III or you will not get the right one(this has the three-inch lap belt required by the rules). There was miscommunication and our order was messed up(twice) but they were very nice and offered to send the correct set for free(twice).

[95M3Racer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Greg H:
If you order a Schroth from HMS be sure and specify you want a Profi-III or you will not get the right one(this has the three-inch lap belt required by the rules). There was miscommunication and our order was messed up(twice) but they were very nice and offered to send the correct set for free(twice). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't see why the require 3" lap belts. Might be something to protest...I dont think they have 3"lap belts that have the submarine belt loop integration, those are key!

[Aeros Paceband]

can anyone tell which belts are better?
SABELT or Schroth ?

[Bemo]

In my opinion it's not a huge difference. I don't know if one of them is lighter than the other.
The Schroth belts look higher quality and are more comfortable for the driver (I was told that, I didn't have the possibility to test that myself yet).
The model we use is called Hybrid III. The reason is that they have the submarine belts are attached by loops at the lap belts, which is more comfortable than other possibilities.
Schroth is not the cheapest choice (I'm not sure what Sabelt belts cost, but I know there are cheaper belts available than Schroth). I think they are worth the money, but it shouldn't be a real problem to use cheaper ones.

[fixitmattman]

FWIW we used a latch harness this year.

We also brought the equivalent of an old pickup truck to an f1 race so cockpit room or seating position was not an issue in our car.

[Eric_W]

With the 2010 rules stating that cars with a reclined driving position require "quick adujust" anti-submarine belts, we were told that our current belts would not meet this rule. Seeing as our belts are expired and we need to purchase new ones, does anyone have an idea on a brand/model that they prefer and has the quick adjuster as specified by the rules.

Cheers,

[Matthew Bell]

Eric,
Looking around on the Simpson site, it looks like they offer submarine straps that can be bought separately that meet the rules. However, the zoom on that particular page isn't working right, so I can't be sure.

Another option that is mentioned in the rules is that you run 2 sets of anti-submarine straps, one for "short" drivers and one for "tall" drivers.

[Dan B]

Try these guys
http://www.hookerharness.com/

[Eric_W]

Thanks guys...

We talked to Simpson Racing Products, and if you are alright with running a 3" lap belt, you can get away with a SFI 16.1 certification, and Simpson can make you a custom harness with the quick adjust submarine belts. However, they can not give you one that is SFI 16.5 certified belts.

The custom arrangement is a bit more expensive, but as a school you get 20% off. I think it was $215 USD + shipping.

Cheers

[D Collins Jr]

I wouldn't say "can get away with" with regard to running SFI 16.1. That's the normal standard. 16.5 may sound better because it's a bigger number, but that's the NASCAR standard. 16.1 is a fine standard.

[PabloH]

Does anyone know who to talk to or have the contact information for getting this discount everyone speaks of?
We are about to order some equipment soon.

[Eric_W]

Originally posted by D Collins Jr:
I wouldn't say "can get away with" with regard to running SFI 16.1. That's the normal standard. 16.5 may sound better because it's a bigger number, but that's the NASCAR standard. 16.1 is a fine standard.

I Just meant that you can use this set-up as it is 16.1 certified, but you can only use it if you are alright with running 3" lap belts, because if you are 100% set on the 2" lap belts for their benefits, then you can't run this set up as for the rules require a a 16.5 certification for the 2" lap belts.....

didn't want to start an argument just wanted to clarify.....

[Eric_W]

Originally posted by PabloH:
Does anyone know who to talk to or have the contact information for getting this discount everyone speaks of?
We are about to order some equipment soon.


If you are talking about getting stuff from Simpson, we just talked to the receptionist who answered the phone... the first lady was "Barbra", but I can't remember the second lady. You just have to say that you are from a University and competing in Formula SAE. They have a set discount for all Universities... Shouldn't be a problem.

[D Collins Jr]

Eric, I'm still not convinced that you "need" SFI 16.5 belts to meet the rules. The 16.1 belts are not specifically outlawed, and the only definition of a 6 point harness states that it has 2" anti-sub belts and doesn't spec any standard.


For those still looking for sub belts with adjusters: call Stroud Safety in Oklahoma City, OK. They make a very quality product and at a price lower than what Simpson offers. Their number is 1-800-554-4648. They made our belts for 2010, and should have the specs on file if you need a six point harness.

[Michael Royce]

David,
The Rules allow you to use a harness certified to SFI 16.1 OR SFI 16.5 OR FIA 8853/98. The SFI 16.5 is a new "NASCAR" standard.

The Rules also say that IF you have a 6 or 7 point harness, you are permitted to use a harness with a 2 inch lap belt IF it is SFI 16.5 or FIA 8853/98 approved. That is, no 2 inch lap belts with a 5 point harness.

[D Collins Jr]

Mr Royce,
Thank you for answering that. I was pretty sure that was the case, and had found out from Simpson about the 16.5 standard.

[Tech Guy]

Schroth has sub belts with tilt-lock adjusters. Their web site also has a very comprehensive guide to installing harnesses. Its worth everyone looking at it.

For those teams that already have their belts, as Matthew Bell said, they could go the 2 sets of sub belts route by just buying another set of sub belts. Buy the second set of a different color, which is what some endurance race teams do.

[Some Guy]

Bringing this thread back up.

My team is currently coming to grips with the adjustable sub belt rule as we are moving away from the 5 point configuration we ran last year. Our seating position is still defined by the rules as an upright seating position however. I know this is one for the rules committee but does anyone know if you are required to have quick adjusters on the sub belts if you have an upright driving position? The rules only say they are mandatory for reclined position, but I feel that is only because nobody out there really runs 6 points with upright positions (or upright positions in general).

Likewise is anyone able to tell if you can run a 2 inch lap belt by meeting just SFI 16.5 or FIA 8853/98? The way the rules read it sounds as if you need to meet both, which seems unlikely gievn that I havent been able to find a harness that is advertised as meeting 8853/98, 16.5 and having 2in lap belts. This issue never came up as the only belts we looked at last year were cheapo 5 points (which we did end up using).

[Tech Guy]

Some Guy,
The Rule says sub belts with quick adjusters (or 2 set of sub belts) are a "must have" with the reclined position. If it does not say they are required for an upright driving position, then they are not! However, adjusting a sub belt without them can take a long tome. So, because you are going to have several drivers getting in and out of the car, if you have the choice to get quick adjusters on your sub belts, doesn't it make sense to do so?

I am sure that the Rule was meant to say 2 inch lap belt are allowed if the belts meet FIA 8853/98 OR SFI 16.5 not "and". I have seen some belts with both FIA and SFI labels, but think they were SFI 16.1. But don't worry about it. It is a non-issue. As far as finding a belt set with 2 inch lap belts, if the manufacturer is any good, you should be able to tell from the manufacturer's catalogue, by looking at the pictures. Just make certain that set is FIA or SFI 16.5!

[Some Guy]

Thanks,

Got a reply back from the rules committee pretty quick and indeed the "and" actually means "or".

I am in the process of getting a set of belts with quick adjusting crotch straps as you suggest. Not having to run them simply meant all we would have to have done is convert the 5-point we have now over to a 6 point for just little money. So looking at a Schroth Profi-II now