Yamaha Genesis 80FI Injectors and Operating Temperature

[RobNaz]

Hey everyone,
I'm new to this site and to SAE for that matter. I am a team member of Temple University's Formula SAE team. We are using the Yamaha Genesis 80FI for our power plant. I was just curious if anyone knew the size of the stock injectors and operating temperature of the Genesis. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

[Drew Price]

Operating temperature of what, the engine coolant?

Most gasoline engines want something in the 85*C-100*C range.

Injectors you might have some luck just Googling the part numbers and see if you find them listed on a supplier site or something somewhere.

You could also just do a spray test into a graduated measuring something for 60 seconds and see what you get if you can't find anything.

I didn't know much about that engine, but my brief look tells me that you should have a lot of fun with it, looks like a nice package.

[Wesley]

Really you could do dyno tests at different coolant temperatures and see where it makes the most power. Or the highest efficiency. Whatever you're going for, testing gives you real data, forums give you what might work. Also consider what kind of heat rejection you're going for which will dictate cooling system sizing.

Though the operating manual ought to have the coolant temp range in it somewhere.

Also, WitchHunter Performance (google them) will flow test injectors for 9 bucks each plus shipping if you don't want to build a rig. Always had good luck with them. Good turn around time, too.

[RollingCamel]

You could also just do a spray test into a graduated measuring something for 60 seconds and see what you get if you can't find anything.

Baby milk bottles...

[RobNaz]

Thanks for the input you guys. We will most likely test the injectors ourselves since we have not had much luck finding the size on the web.

[Demon Of Speed]

For injector testing see SAE paper J1832, Low Pressure Gasoline Fuel Injector.

Summary of what is done:
Static test, injector open all the way (measure mass/time)
dynamic test, which is two parts
First is run the injector at different pulse widths and measure the slope on the line (which should be the same as the static test) and then measure the time and flow offset.
this is good to know
Second is a Linear Flow Range test which is a fine look at the different pulse widths and seeing where the linearity deviates by more than 5%.
There is also a test for spray spread, offset spray angle.

And remember to check number of openings, and type.

[bobbyP]

has anyone ever designed a cooling system for this engine and can give approximate dimensions for the sizing of the radiator?>

[Jon Burford]

We are running this engine in 2012.
We did not find the stock injector size and are planning a test in the coming weeks. We setup the engine for a trial run over the summer and after good first effort results, mostly with parts that we threw together in a couple of days, we decided to stick with it. final components for the engine, are all on their way now so that we can get tuning.
as far as I can see from our test, the injectors, whatever size they are seem big enough to provide the extra I need to run at lower lambda for my turbo setup. I will let you know when I come across the correct value.

Did you experience any problems with the engine this year?

[Brian Barnhill]

260cc/min is what I found setting up the Genesis when running on the stock rail/regulator. (This was data we researched and found somewhere, never verified so take it as what it is.) Though the VE map and tables all seemed reasonable and what I'd expect when using this value in the Haltech P2000 ECU. Lambda values were fine and on target at idle and high load/revs

The Radiator they used on last years car with the phazer was massive, and overkill. Even out of the airflow with no ducting and just a pusher fan the engine never had any issues. I believe it was roughly a 19"x12" core. I don't have any hard numbers though. On the sleds these are notorious for being a warm running engine though, even using the snow to help cool things down.

No problems with the engine were ever noticed. The only real issues with the car was an undersized plenum and poor cvt setup.

[Jon Burford]

My slap dash plenum was far too small.
great info for the injectors. I will let you know if my test agrees.
I am not looking forward to the cvt setup. I hope we can make it work.
Are you running the engine again this year?

[Brian Barnhill]

Yeah, Genesis 80FI with CVT again this year.

The uneven firing makes plenum sizing a little different and pretty crucial otherwise that second cylinder is going to have uneven flow and run leaner.

CVT isn't too bad - Make sure you pick up a copy of Aeen Clutch Tuning Handbook. Very useful. The biggest issue we noticed was backshifting - focus on your helix and secondary spring/preload.

I am curious to see your injector results. Do you plan on modeling open and dead time too?

[Jon Burford]

yeah we saw the uneven balanced cylinders over the summer. It wasn't too bad, but still noticeable.

With regards to the injectors, I would like to do as much as possible. Although we shall have to see.

[Jon Burford]

Hi again
I am in the process of securing a run on a injector dyno. So I should get the full results in the next couple of weeks.
I was wondering if you had a cad model of the genesis 80, we had to scan our own and it tunred out fairly bad, since we can't really get access to computer power enough to surface it well. so I have got a model which is half laser scanned and half measured. It does the job but doesn't look great.
Just wondering if you got your model from somewhere specific or is it self drawn

regards

[rjwoods77]

John,

Here is a link to reference videos and vehicle info/state as a point of running reference on how a proper CVT autocross car should run. I would be happy to help guide you through that tuning process if you need/wanted an outside opinion.

http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/t...20489051#51220489051 (http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/824105905?r=51220489051#51220489051)

[Jon Burford]

Hi @rjwoods77
That video is superb and exactly what I am hoping for,
we have never attempted a CVT before and it is for us the most unknown thing.

Any help/advise you could give would be superb.

Thanks very much!

[rjwoods77]

Sure. All that I would ask in return is that you share your findings with the community here in order to help further the cause of using cvts and particularly that package. Maybe Brian would be willing to pitch in with that as well. I think that many of the tripping points for using a CVT in FSAE could be overcome by some simple good spirited data sharing. Also that guy in the video I believe lives in my area so I can contact him to see if he would be interested in sharing some ideas as well. Check your PM's Jon.

[rjwoods77]

Also in regards to odd fire parallel twins. If you look up info on Wattards engine he has a particular bit of interesting data on intake and exhaust manifold design for odd fire engines and especially for turbocharged applications.