Adjustable pedal box assembly on rails

[satbat7]

i have an option of designing a pedal box adjustable on rails to take into account drivers of different heights.

How seriously do the judges consider this criterion while judging for design and ergonomics?
is it worth the time and effort considering the additional weight too?

We are a fisrt time team.

[satbat7]

i have an option of designing a pedal box adjustable on rails to take into account drivers of different heights.

How seriously do the judges consider this criterion while judging for design and ergonomics?
is it worth the time and effort considering the additional weight too?

We are a fisrt time team.

[Ben C-M]

If your only reason for putting an adjustable tray is because the judges would like it, you aren't going to get many design points for it. If your reason is one that actually affects performance and driver comfort, then you might.

Think through why having an adjustable pedal tray is something the judges would like and decide whether it's worth the investment in time and resources for your team. If you have a driver that's 6 feet tall and another that's 5'6, having an adjustable tray (or seat) is almost neccesary. You should be making design decisions based on your team's requirements: A good decision for one team isn't always a good decision for another team.

[satbat7]

all 4 drivers in my team are of the same height and v absolutely have no requirement of an adjustable pedal box from the ergo pt. of view,,

but the design scoring in appendices in the rule book clearly states that drivers of all sizes should be able to fit in..

since v have never faced a judge b4,, i wanted to know whats their attitude towards this in general,,

[JHarshbarger]

Fitting in the car and be able to drive the car well are very different. You might have a judge jump in your car to see how well they fit in it. Many teams don't use an adjustable pedal box and if everyone on your team is the same height, you have even more reason not to make it adjustable. An adjustable pedal box weighs more, adds unneccesary complexity, and could be less reliable than fixed pedals. If you explain this to the judges, you will show them that you've thought it through and decided against it, and they will score you well.

[Kyle Walther]

In simifinals i know they have two different sized judges that climb into your car and grade your ergo. so even if all of your drivers are the same size you still need to make the car comfortable for a wide range of drivers. Remember the point of this competition is to create a autocross car for the masses not for your team.

[satbat7]

which region competition is that in? v r goin to germany.. any idea abt that..?

[Kyle Walther]

that was at FSAE west, and no i don't know about germany. But you won't have to worry about who fits in your car if your car fits everyone.

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

A word of caution,
Adjustable pedal boxes add a lot of complexity to the system. Not only do you need a box strong enough to support the "oh shit" braking force, but you also need the attachment points on the frame to be that strong. All your cables/brake lines have to move with the box and must be mounted to it.
We did it, it very time consuming and didnt gain us anything becasue we never ended up moving it back from the farthest foreward position.

[markocosic]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">all 4 drivers in my team are of the same height and v absolutely have no requirement of an adjustable pedal box from the ergo pt. of view, </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

&lt;snip&gt;

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">since v have never faced a judge b4,, i wanted to know whats their attitude towards this in general, </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The design judges DO like to get in and "try to destroy" the steering and pedals fitted to the vehicle. (test what they 'feel' like)

You won't be asked to fit a 95th percentile north american male into the car followed by a 5th percentile female - and have them both drive it - but it is a very god idea if you make the car big enough for a "middle to retirement aged northern european male**" to get in and feel comfotable whilst stationary.

**smaller than north americans (95th percentile male is 102kg and 1870mm tall), but probably bigger than indians

[Kyle Walther]

you know i've always wanted to get into Tokyo denki's car to see if i fit(i'm 6'3). from the outside it looks so small, but you never know till you try it. If you guys are reading can i stop by your paddock and try it out in Cali?

[jeff-NIUMS]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by markocosic:


The design judges DO like to get in and "try to destroy" the steering and pedals fitted to the vehicle. (test what they 'feel' like)

...but it is a very god idea if you make the car big enough for a "middle to retirement aged northern european male**" to get in and feel comfotable whilst stationary. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You thinking something like this? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.niumotorsports.com/claude.jpg

[fade]

Claude doesnt look too happy http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[jeff-NIUMS]

Heh, that was him being very determined to fit the steering wheel over his belly. Needless to say, Claude was a little bigger than the most of the people on our team.

[abhinav]

hey,we also tryied it in the 2004 car,and to be frank,it didnt solve much of a purpose
in the list of complexities that hav already been pointed out by everyone,another major problem is that in order to provide positive locking to the adjustable pedals,we ended up adding a lot of unjustified weight to the car http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[Steve Yao]

Unjustified? Then why did you do it?

I've personally designed several adjustable pedal assemblies which added probably no more than 2 lbs. to the vehicle. All of them adjustable by the driver alone, in-cockpit.

My last assembly has been able to accommodate drivers from 5'2" to 6'3". 6'3" is definately the max, and we have not had anyone shorter than 5'2" on the team yet. I will note that with a top-mounted rack, an adjustable assembly is almost mandatory. If you place the steering rack low, then taller drivers can bend their legs for a shorter footbox. Just ask the RMIT fellas.

[markocosic]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jeff-NIUMS:
You thinking something like this? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I actually had a few of the German judges in mind, but yes, somebody not as huge as percy but not small either.

Thinking about of Claude, one 'small' car he really rated the ergonomics of was the 2005FSUK/2006FSAEW ETS machine - looked small but bags of room inside because the shape is nice.

I'll have to get some pics of our wooden chassis with ebay wheel/pedals and a racing game - as crude as it comes but it'll tell you everywhere you're going to remove knees, knuckles and elbows and where's going to hurt afterwards. Championship with a small prize for the winner is a good way to recruit different shaped test pilots too! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Ianthegypo]

for FS2006 I designed our cars pedal box. For a competition such as FS where the seat us usually unable to move, having pedal assembly movement to me is essential. It was even more important in our team where driver height varied from 5'6" to 6'4"!

There are many examples of different simple methods around; I was in the middle of a redesign where I was to use 2x quick release mechanisms from a bicycle front wheel in a rack type system, but alas time beat me.

[satbat7]

thanks for your help guys to help me take a decision..

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

More then once the idea of cutting ppls feet off instead of making the bloody adjustable pedal box was thrown around our shop.....

[scottie]

theres a couple other things that need to be thought about, which a few people have somewhat alluded to... complexity and how it adds to overall pedal feel. the more complex your pedal assembly is the larger the probability of deflection in your system....