Traveling Overseas

[RotoryHeaven7]

Hello All,

Bearcat Motorsports (Univeristy of Cincinnati) is traveling to England for the first time this year. Alot of teams have competed away from their own continent and I was wondering if any of them has some lessons learned or tips that may be beneficial. This could help alot of teams who are thinking about it or doing it for the first time.

Thanks,
Ryan

[RotoryHeaven7]

Hello All,

Bearcat Motorsports (Univeristy of Cincinnati) is traveling to England for the first time this year. Alot of teams have competed away from their own continent and I was wondering if any of them has some lessons learned or tips that may be beneficial. This could help alot of teams who are thinking about it or doing it for the first time.

Thanks,
Ryan

[terra_dactile]

Hi Ryan,
We have traveled to england quite a few times and have used either boat or plane, boat is a few grand cheaper but takes two weeks instead of one. One week of testing is alot so if the extra cash is available plane is deffinately a better choice,

I believe the guy to call for plane transportation is John Deller, im not sure if i spelled his name right but he does profeesionell motor sport transportation so understands the time frame importance of racing!

When packing the crate for the plane or boat is very improtant to find out what are the rules with respect to transporting materaials,

correct me in i am wrong but in the past i have heard of teams arriving very late or even missing a comp because they had some sort of gas canisters or other material and had lots of trouble getting threw customs,

plan ahead m akes sure to plan on paying lots for food, a pound is like 2- 2.5 times more expensive that an american or canadaina dollar, but when you eat there prices are alomost as expensive as here, then you double it an realize you have been ripped off.

Try and plan to eat from a grocery store as a team this can save lots of money,

The best food we ate was in very small towns at the local pub, the service is slow but the food is great.

Make sure that the suspension system is not attatched and buting cyclic loads inot your car when transportation is rough you could damage the car, we took the wheels off and tied the chasis to the floor of th crate with a foam under neath.

other than that the experience was great

Look forward to seeing your team in england this year.

sincerely,

Jude Berthault
ETS FSAE 2003-Current
Vehicle Dynamics Leader

[Wizard]

Ryan,

Formula Student will be different than when we went in 2005 since they will be holding it at Silverstone, but I can make some suggestions that might help.

First, you should try to find a UK team that might be willing to give you a hand. We could have not done it in 2005 without all the great guys and gals from U of Birmingham and I would suggest you do the say. Small things like fire extinguishers cannot be shipped and sourcing them there is not the easiest thing. What they couldn't help us with they told us where to get it.

Second, I see that there are several new US teams going including the regulars: Toronto, Ryerson, ETS, and Dartmouth. I would get in contact with one of the local teams to see if they would be interested in a "partnership."� This way two teams could split the load of what to take and what not to take. Finding someone that runs the same motor as you might be important. It might also be easier to work out shipping arrangements with two cars than one.

I would recommend showing up a few days early. This way you have time to get acclimated to the time change, put together your car, and do the running around. I don't know how they are going to do it at Silverstone but at Bruntingthorpe you could get on site a few days early, put together you car and even shake it down on the kart track. This is where a local UK school might help( a place to put together your car and make sure everything is working properly). No reason to travel over the pond only to be fighting problems during competition. Oh, we carried all our restrictor, ecu and daq with us on the plane. I would recommend this for any critical/fragile parts.

I sure there is more but it's a start. It would be great if we (i.e. FSAE.com members) could compile an overseas checklist/recommendations. I know we would have done lots on things different after doing it the first time.

Finally, visit the Formula Student website. The site has tons of info and new info is always being posted. Make sure you are aware of everything that is expected of FS teams since it is slightly different than FSAE.

Eric

p.s. contact me offline if you need any more info: ekm24@drexel.edu

[HenningO]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by terra_dactile:
I believe the guy to call for plane transportation is John Deller </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I heard some of the Euro teams (Helsinki, University of Hertfordshire, Oxford Brookes?) had problems with getting their cars back from the US comps (pretty sure John Deller handle it). Apparently their cars was shipped instead of flown over the pond. I know Helsinki had to wait a couple of weeks extra!

[Ian McMurdo]

When we travelled to England in 2005 we had to put down a deposit of about $4000 to ensure that the car would not be left in England. This is called a 'carnet' (no relation to the word car). When you get back it is very important to follow up with the carnet people and process your paper work according to their regulations, otherwise the deposit is put into holding for 4 years or something like that, which is what happened to us.

We used John Deller and had the experience that others seem to have had - service was top knotch on the way there but not as good on the way back. I wasn't the one dealing with him so I can't comment on the specifics. All in all though I'd go with him again - hes done it many times before, and if you choose to go without him (or an equivalent), you run the risk of your car not getting there on time. We showed up at Bruntingthorpe and were so happy to see that our car and tools were sitting in our padock slot waiting for us.

[Frank "Ruska" Roeske]

Custom is a lot of paper work, but very importand. If you make a temporary import for fairs or a FS Event you can use a Carnet ATE. Some nations are having this aggrement.

"Carnet ATA is a customs permit document or the temporary admission or import of goods"

Just google where you can get a Carnet ATA in your Area.

[Chris_S]

John Deller was very good getting our car over to Detroit last year. All the parts we took were packed into boxes, the car wen't as it was, and was then packed into a container with Brookes and Helsinki's car.
Getting the cars back was delayed, as they were sent sea frieght, rather than by air as promised. The car subsequently missed its Class 1-200 launch and robbed us of testing time.

[RacingManiac]

remember to bring power transformer and plug adaptor, they do use 220V with a different style plug compare to North America.

Depends on how you ship your car and stuff, you will want to plan out exactly what you want be bringing beforehand as compare to Detroit where we all show up with a truck, you can't do that travelling oversea.

And don't forget your steering wheel...we forgot our wheel in 2004 and we had to drive to Wales to buy a new one(goodthing we arrived 2 days early)....doh...http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Big Bird]

Some random notes:
* If you are collaborating with a local team, try to find a uni with student accommodation on campus. This saves heaps of money compared to staying in hotels. (If you can find some friendly locals who'll let you sleep on their floors, all the better).
* We usually send at least two team members over at least two to three weeks in advance. This gives time to familiarize yourself with surroundings, find appropriate computer access, establish contacts with key locals, get cars / parts out of customs, fix any shipping damage, tune the car to suit local fuel and conditions, and determine which forms of local wildlife are worth chasing and which to leave well alone. (Drummy, Deano, any input on this?). Seriously, don't try to skimp on your time on the ground over there - if you cut it too fine, Murphy's Law will get you.
* If you are planning to ship your car over as part of a container, build a sturdy crate. Steel preferably. We built a wooden one for our first trip and it came back looking like firewood. Don't trust forklift drivers not to try to destroy your crate.
* Also, if you are sending over in a shipping container, leave time for odd eventualities. At FStudent 04, Monash had their car stuck in customs until the Friday night of the event because of suspicious materials in the container - not in their crate, but in some other shipped goods. They had a terrible time that year, spent a lot of money only got to compete at half the event.
* Try to con someone old to come along for the trip. Insurance for hire cars is often cheaper for over 25's.
* If budget is an issue, be reasonable about what hire cars you need for what days. You don't necessarily need a transport for your racecar every day you are there, (obvious), and quite often in the weeks in the workshop before the event you might not even need minibuses to cater for all members of the team. A cheap little four seater might be enough to do the errands while you are setting up for the event.
* Prepare for potentially different fuel in different countries! Bruntingthorpe Proving Grounds might be a good place to get some decent practice and tuning in the weeks leading up to the event.
* Build spares of everything. If parts of your car are fragile, or have limited fatigue life, build fat steel replicas to use during your testing. Or even at the event. You are investing a huge amount of time money and effort in an OS trip, and you need to think seriously about your risk management. You are going to come home a lot happier with a 220kg car that ran perfectly and finished the event, than a 200kg car that DNF'ed.

In particular, if you are going to England, make sure you leave enough time to check out the local industry. The UK has a huge motorsport heritage, and it is well worth looking around. In the UK three years ago, we went to the Goodwood Festival of Speed, checked out the Donnington Museum and went to a local round of the World Sportscar Champs / FRenault / F3 etc. Great fun.

Enough for now, if i think of anything else I'll post it later. Good luck with your planned trip, we look forward to seeing you there and if we can help in any way please let us know.

Cheers,

[Chris_S]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Big Bird:
In particular, if you are going to England, make sure you leave enough time to check out the local industry. The UK has a huge motorsport heritage, and it is well worth looking around. In the UK three years ago, we went to the Goodwood Festival of Speed, checked out the Donnington Museum and went to a local round of the World Sportscar Champs / FRenault / F3 etc. Great fun.
Cheers, </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

With the event being held at Silverstone this year, there are quite a few companies with the Silverstone Grounds;
Mardi Gras Motorsport (Have red top batteries)
Trident (NAS bolts, fasteners)
Flitwick motorcycles (Triumph and Yamaha)

I'll put together a full list at some point, as it would be useful to everyone.

[satbat7]

awesome stuff.. v will be going for fs for the first time to germany this august,, i have taken notes from each of the above quotes.. please pool in more .. it really helps..

[RotoryHeaven7]

Wow,

Thanks everyone for all the input, quite the response. Does anyone have contact info for "John Deller"?

Currently we have talked to the University of Akron and are hoping to work something out with them in terms of a partnership. Does anyone have contact info for the good people at U. of Birmingham?

We are sending a few people over early but have not heard anything back asking whether or not Silverstone will be open early. Hopefully it will, and we won't have to bother the UK teams.

"And don't forget your steering wheel...we forgot our wheel in 2004 and we had to drive to Wales to buy a new one(goodthing we arrived 2 days early)....doh..."

So easy to forget things, hopefully we will remember everything. Thanks again all.

-Ryan-

[Ian McMurdo]

Just found this thread about Mr. Deller:

http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/825607348/m/90110216521/inc/-1

He has helped a lot of teams but its definitely a 'buyer beware' kind of stituation. After reading all these comments from other teams it really makes me wonder what ever happened to our carnet deposit.

[Drum]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">determine which forms of local wildlife are worth chasing and which to leave well alone. (Drummy, Deano, any input on this?). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I do have some input on this.

Do not chase skunks. For those of you who are not familiar with these animals, be aware that there is no small cute puff of gas that floats away like in Looney Tunes. I'm not going into details, but lets just say that I am still smelling the consequences of chasing a skunk in May 2005. I'm sure I'm not alone here, I know that Deano is probably still going through the emotional turmoil that is falling victim to a skunk. In fact, I would say the entire RMIT team still has nightmares about that horrific incident, not to mention UWA, Oakland University and Yeungnam University.

They look cute and fluffy, but in fact are very deadly. Stay away.

Pat Drum
Skunk Victim, Detroit 2005

PS. Racoons, groundhogs and wild deer are perfect suitable for chasing.

[markocosic]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Big Bird:
determine which forms of local wildlife are worth chasing and which to leave well alone </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Avoid anything wearing white knee-high boots or burberry... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Chris_S]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by markocosic:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Big Bird:
determine which forms of local wildlife are worth chasing and which to leave well alone </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Avoid anything wearing white knee-high boots or burberry... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd steer clear of that cambridge lot too http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


I know at Bruntingthorpe, Leicester Uni provided accomodation and breakfast (tea saucer with a selection from a cook breakfast). Nottingham Uni is around 15 miles away (about the same as leicester uni from bruntingthorpe.

[Lyds]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chris_S:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by markocosic:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Big Bird:
determine which forms of local wildlife are worth chasing and which to leave well alone </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Avoid anything wearing white knee-high boots or burberry... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd steer clear of that cambridge lot too http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


I know at Bruntingthorpe, Leicester Uni provided accomodation and breakfast (tea saucer with a selection from a cook breakfast). Nottingham Uni is around 15 miles away (about the same as leicester uni from bruntingthorpe. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Chris, nottingham is 15 miles away from where? We're about the closest team to bruntingthorpe and we're about 20/30 miles away, and nottingham is north of Loughborough...I'm confused!

We hosted RMIT in 04, I'm not sure if the uni would be willing to do it again or not, I'd have to go and find out. The other thing is that now the UK event isn't at Brunty, we're not as close as before, so I dont know if anyone would be interested anyway!!

Lyds

[Chris_S]

Northhampton Univeristy being closest to Silverstone, around 15 miles.

Hit the post button before i'd finished writing http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[Jim400]

Hi all,

I was part of the University of Hertfordshire team that competed in the US West compertion last year, we did use John Deller and had a very good experience of both John and the event. The way it worked for us was we delivered all our stuff and car to Gatwick airport about a week and a half before the comp where we met Oxford Brooks and John Deller. The reason it was so early was because John was flying to the cheapest airport and driving the cars up to Detroit because it was cheaper. Helsinki's car was already loaded up on crates when we got their, I don't know if they flew it the UK first or what. Basically we unloaded all our stuff, a few useless guys x rayed it all bar the car and then we loaded it all onto a big flat metal crate. This was basically the size of the car and a bit wider. So we had the car covered in boxes of our gear because the price for flying them was on weight and floor space, so we had boxes up to the top of the roll hoop all the way round. Then it was covered in netting so nothing fell off and loaded straight onto the plane.

We flew into Canada a few days earlier because it was so much cheaper and spent a few days relaxing and seeing Canada because our useless team leader said we couldn't get the car early. Once we got to Detroit we found some local places we may need and picked up the odd bits we needed like fire extinguishers.

When we got to the event on the first day our car was there in the truck with Helsinki's and Brooks and all our stuff, with no breakages. We all on loaded and put up a big marquee for us to work in. We also found out that Helsinki had had their car delivered or picked up and had worked from a local university where they had broken an upright on the uni's car park.

We didn't see any refreshments while we were there from John which were promised. When it came to the end we packed everything up and off the truck went.

Now yes it did take our car about one and a half months to get back because it came back on a boat. My personal opinion why it came back by boat is as follows. I heard John Deller and our member of staff talking about shipping it back because it was so much cheaper, something like a 1/3rd of the price as flying. I think the uni's decided to ship them back to save money. When the cars did get back John dropped off all the stuff off to our uni.

My opinion was he did a great job. My opinion of John Deller as a person to work with now is quite different. He's a business man thought and thought, he's the sort of man who will sleep in his car for a few nights because it's cheaper than a hotel. That's why I can understand a few of the stories I've read on here. But he will always get your car to the event on time.

A few tips for people traveling to the UK Comp:

John Deller told us to pack all our stuff in cardboard boxes, after much disussion our team leader bought cardboard boxes. What ever you do don't do it, the first night at Detroit it rained and we were on the gravel. The boxes became useless. At the UK event we'll be using the pit garages so a lot better for your gear not getting wet but just don't use cardboard boxes.

One of our guys made a massive list of what was in which box which saved us loads of time finding stuff.

We took all our electrics off the car for flying just in case and brought them on with us on the plane. We also had a few last minute spares too. They included 6 tyres and 2 wheel rims + bits and bobs. Most of this stuff was in our main bags, wheels and all and we still got under our bag weight allowance. The people at the airport were fine once we showed them some stuff on what we were doing, we had a Brochure for the design event which we showed them and they were fine. John Deller said that it was a lot cheaper to send stuff thought as extra baggage instead of paying for freight.

Finally to Ryan, we at the University of Hertfordshire are putting Akron up before the event. It's the first time we are hosting a team so the university will only allow us one team. If you really get stuck we may be able to give you space for a day or so to shake down our car. Our car parks are tiny but we can still get a good a shake down their. If Silverstone is open before the event their is a lot of good space behind the pit garages for a shake down and it's a good surface.

Otherwise if any team is getting over early before your cars arrive feel free to drop us a line at the University of Hertfordshire and I'm sure if you want to you can pop down and we'll show you around our facilities and past cars. My email ifd_racing@hotmail.com if anyone does and I'm currently staff so I'll defiantly be around.

Jim

[RotoryHeaven7]

Jim,

Thanks for all the info and the offer. I had actually been speaking with Ian for some time and connected Akron and yourselves as Warwick University will be housing us. We are greatly looking forward to traveling overseas for the first time and appreciate the offer you and your team have made. Best of Luck.

Ryan Stobbs
Bearcat Motorsports