Waterloo FSAE - suspended!

[Kirk Feldkamp]

Bogus!

h t t p : / / jalopnik . com / #!5792168

Call me crazy, but that's some bullshiza. Time for every other FSAE to do the same in solidarity! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I think they should call SAE to see if they can get their entry "transferred" to California so they can still run this year (it's after June 1!). Obviously the dean isn't in touch with how much work goes into one of these programs.

-Kirk

[gguwfsae]

I agree. This is total crap.

Even if they get 'transfered' to California, I do not think they will be able to finish the car in time. It was 1 month to go to competition and as per my experience with FSAE that month is usually used to finish the car (atleast) and testing (if possible).

[Will M]

Wow, that's shocking.
I don't understand how preventing the team from competing does anything other than make this higher profile.

[Shields]

I saw this. Unbelievable. Another prime example of University Administration hard at work to better the student experience.

I can't wait to get the first alumni letter asking for a donation....

[Will M]

“results from misuse of the student design centre space for an unauthorized photo shoot involving the Formula SAE vehicle,” said the dean of engineering, Adel Sedra

I'm confused was the issue the location, the car or both?

[ibanezplayer]

Yeah the FSAE "community" here has known for a little while, what with friends on different teams and such. Didn't feel it was my place to spread the news but apparently it's on jalopnik now...

The thing that bugs me is that this is apparently for the misuse of school property, but in my opinion building a car and NOT competing is far greater misuse of school property and funds. Waterloo also prides it self on co-op education, and I'm sure anyone on here will agree that building these cars leads to a better engineer than most internships will.

The photos were taken in a brand new building built essentially for their student teams...It's an unfortunate situtaion, I can understand why the adminsitration felt they had to do something, but I don't think that this was the "right" thing to do.

[Will M]

From the announcement it looks like they can't even work on the car till after June 1st.

Here's another article:
tinyurl .com /42hdmow

[Will M]

It is tempting to make a big stink about this, but I don't think that their team would appreciated it.

[P. Jayaraman]

Originally posted by Will M:
“results from misuse of the student design centre space for an unauthorized photo shoot involving the Formula SAE vehicle,” said the dean of engineering, Adel Sedra

I'm confused was the issue the location, the car or both?

Both, I would presume. The location issue kind of makes sense. As for the car, I know we came to learn about our car being the university's property (both physically and intellectually) when we asked our department about possibly licensing a design of ours to a company to further fund the team.

That being said, this is way too harsh. I think it shows a clear lack of understanding on the admins' part. Even knowing the purpose of this photo shoot as well as the massive effort that went into the car's creation, they've undermined a serious part of the educational opportunity provided by the entire FSAE program by not letting them compete (even if it's just a one-event suspension).

[thewoundedsoldier]

Not getting to go to comp sucks, but DAMN...you guys have a pretty attractive woman on your team...

[sbrenaman]

I feel like a girl in jeans/school-sweatshirt, working on the car, is a better promotion of women in FSAE.

[thewoundedsoldier]

Originally posted by sbrenaman:
I feel like a girl in jeans/school-sweatshirt, working on the car, is a better promotion of women in FSAE.

Why do men get to make the decision on what is acceptable conduct for a woman?

This Sedra fellow sounds like a disgusting creature who needs to catch up with the freedom of thought that just swept his home country. Just shows the lines on which some people are bred to think.

I apologize if my comments are insensitive to anyone. I honestly do not mean to inflame the issue. It just sucks.

[Kirby]

I'm surprised that this hit the wire to the likes of jalopnik and autoblog...but in that I'm hoping that the negative reaction the University gets might force them to reconsider their choice.

as I've commented to the people I know from the team and alumni.

"While probably they should have asked for permission (I would have) I don't think the university should have operationally suspended the whole team. I think doing that is going to have far more negative repercussions for the university than the original photos ever would have."

It sucks for the guys over there too, the universities decision has cost them significantly, not just in not attending Detroit.

[MegaDeath]

Man that is some major BS. I can't believe how big of a crock of S*** college administration is now-a-days. I want to take a "response" picture with our car and send it to that dean.

If I lived around Toronto, I would definitely send that story to a local news station and try to get some local media involved, University administration is horrified of negative media.

[atm92484]

I saw the link earlier today and as an alumni of the FSAE program find it to be completely out of place. Not to say that what was done was right, wrong, or indifferent but preventing students from learning over it is absolutely disgraceful. Why not just shut down the whole engineering school at that point and tell everyone they get an A in everything and to come back next year?

Its not like she was posing for anything distasteful - it was for a beauty pageant/charity. I could walk around pretty much any college campus around this time any spring and see women in equal or lesser amounts of clothing tanning on university property.

Plus offering students credit for this work is a complete slap in the face - most FSAE participants don't care about the credit anyways (and if that is why you do it you are not a real FSAE'er).

Congratulations on breeding more of your typical college engineering student Dean Sedra - do everything because you get credit/money and not for the love of engineering.

[MalcolmG]

I think the real question that needs to be asked here is, have you ever seen a more attractive female in an FSAE team? I will argue the answer is no, and invite evidence to the contrary to be presented.

[RyMan]

Time for every other FSAE to do the same in solidarity!

Hear! Hear! I second this motion.

So let me just make sure I have it straight. No one was injured, nothing was damaged, there was no sex tape, and the University decided to pull the plug? Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. The following clip pretty much sums up how I feel about the situation.

h t t p : / / wilstar . com / midi / tirade . wav

[Zac]

Originally posted by MegaDeath:
I want to take a "response" picture with our car and send it to that dean.

No.

[MegaDeath]

Originally posted by Zac:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MegaDeath:
I want to take a "response" picture with our car and send it to that dean.

No. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It'll be up this weekend. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Mike Cook]

I know what our computers new background picture is going to be....

[BMEP]

When is the FSAE bikini calender coming out

[Mbirt]

flickr . com / photos / uoftracing / 5009726919 / sizes / l / in / set-72157624876074225/

I'm pretty sure she was in Optimum-G at MSU after FSAE 2010 with me. That's right, gentlemen. She knows her kinematics too.

The model I had lined up to shoot with our car flaked out. If you happen to see this and still need some shots for your charity, we've got lots of cool, gritty urban decay scenes in Flint that would make excellent destinations. I've got a camera, lenses, lights, reflectors, a pristine Mahle-engined FSAE car, and am ready to roll.

[poss87]

Originally posted by BMEP:
When is the FSAE bikini calender coming out

Calender definitely needs to be made and sold at Michigan.

[ESaenz]

I think we should all send their dean an email of how we feel!!!

[Kirk Feldkamp]

h t t p : / / ece . uwaterloo . ca / People / faculty / sedra . html

Just sayin'.

You stay classy, San Diego. Seriously.

[poss87]

National news now. On fox news front page. The publicity is great.

[The AFX Master]

Originally posted by MalcolmG:
I think the real question that needs to be asked here is, have you ever seen a more attractive female in an FSAE team? I will argue the answer is no, and invite evidence to the contrary to be presented.

Yeah, My team http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. A bare minimum of three superb gals are expected each year in our team.

As a curious side effect, our Baja team is comprised roughly half and half. Their team captain and almost all systems leaders are women.

The car's still Black and yellow, with no magenta/purple signs yet :P

[Will M]

"0-60 magazine" and "Macleans On Campus" are now carrying the story as well.

[RyMan]

When is the FSAE bikini calender coming out

No joke, we looked into collaborating with the Ladybirds on one of these last semester since some of them are in engineering school.

[RacingManiac]

Kind of fuuny and sad that this is probably the biggest news story on FSAE ever....

[EHog]

So.... I googled "Girl with Car" and got 550 MILLION results.

I'm going to venture a guess that not very many of them made Fox news...

[Gabriel Dessureault]

On a more serious note, what could the FSAE community do to help that team get their car to comp? Contacting their dean would be a possibility, but we need to do it in an organized manner with a better argument than "this is bullshit" and "I love boobs!".

In the event that this issue is not resolved, I would be more than happy to host some of Waterloo's members in our paddock given we get the approval from SAE.

If that is something you guys are willing to do, send me an email: fsae@mail.mcgill.ca

Gabriel
McGill Racing Team Captain

[thewoundedsoldier]

There is nothing that the "I love boobs!" argument cannot solve.

[Will M]

The Toronto Sun has also picked up the story.

[MalcolmG]

Originally posted by The AFX Master:

Yeah, My team http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. A bare minimum of three superb gals are expected each year in our team.

As a curious side effect, our Baja team is comprised roughly half and half. Their team captain and almost all systems leaders are women.


Sorry but this does not not constitute evidence. Need photos.

[Thrainer]

How would anybody looking at the pictures have noticed it's the Uni of Waterloo Design Centre? Now, everybody knows.

Their Dean should get a copy of the DART calendars, to recognize that his team still has a lot to learn.

[The AFX Master]

Originally posted by MalcolmG:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by The AFX Master:

Yeah, My team http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. A bare minimum of three superb gals are expected each year in our team.

As a curious side effect, our Baja team is comprised roughly half and half. Their team captain and almost all systems leaders are women.


Sorry but this does not not constitute evidence. Need photos. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Go to our paddock at MIS this year and wear something to avoid breaking your jaw against the floor http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[MalcolmG]

Originally posted by The AFX Master:
Go to our paddock at MIS this year and wear something to avoid breaking your jaw against the floor http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
If I was going to fly half way around the world to check out hot girls, an FSAE competition wouldn't be my first choice http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

[Bemo]

Their Dean should get a copy of the DART calendars, to recognize that his team still has a lot to learn.

Well, this year there isn't a DART calender anymore - because their uni announced that the team will be banned if they go on making the calenders...

But watch for this years calender of Joanneum - awesome!

[W1N3I]

It's a real pity that there isn't a DART calendar anymore. I liked that one very much.
A lot of Teams do that over here.
I cannot really understand why the waterloo-university's reaction is that harsh.

PS: here an Example of our calendar from 2010
http : / / racing . sx . fh-stralsund .de /index . php ? option=com_phocagallery&view=category&id=57:&Itemid=113

[PowerStranger]

Waterloo team should have her put on a helmet while wearing the bikini..that would have been more appropriate.

[BMEP]

Originally posted by W1N3I:
It's a real pity that there isn't a DART calendar anymore. I liked that one very much.
A lot of Teams do that over here.
I cannot really understand why the waterloo-university's reaction is that harsh.

PS: here an Example of our calendar from 2010
http : / / racing . sx . fh-stralsund .de /index . php ? option=com_phocagallery&view=category&id=57:&Itemid=113
Guess what just go emailed to Sedra.... Nice link http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[rpVIT]

This looks pretty similar to a situation where the university objects if you have beer/alcohol company as a sponsor. Although I dont think anybody would suspend a team for that !

[benny41]

We thought about doing calenders once but ran into a few problems

1 we found out there were more than 6 mths in a year. (only 6 team members!!)

2 A diet of Red bull and maccas does nothing for your figure

3 no one was really commited to going through with the sex change operation.

In all seriousness what is the world coming to when a uni pulls the plug over something like this?

[flavorPacket]

Originally posted by W1N3I:
It's a real pity that there isn't a DART calendar anymore. I liked that one very much.

Indeed. As the guys from DART told me in between Jager shots at FSG 09, Miss September really was a student there. I'd have never believed it otherwise. Let me say that it was September in our shop for a long time...

And I will vouch for FSB as well. I want to make a special award for "most focused and productive team" and give it to them. Finishing a car under those conditions is commendable.

[The AFX Master]

Originally posted by MalcolmG:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by The AFX Master:
Go to our paddock at MIS this year and wear something to avoid breaking your jaw against the floor http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
If I was going to fly half way around the world to check out hot girls, an FSAE competition wouldn't be my first choice http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Didn´t notice you were from NZ :P.. well, steer a little bit south and you´ll get it.

As for staying in topic, I think the temporary suspension is a little overdone thing. They (uni) could issue a warning or short reprimand against the team, but preventing them to enjoy their right to go and compete is too much. That´s not learning at all.

I don´t know about the DART calendar, but i remember i saw some pictures of their (09?) car with gals each side and other props that made it superb. It was classy, stilish, perfectly done.

These kind of things are totally valuable in a corporate environment, at academia, that is another story.

Hope they let the team go ahead and compete.

[Chapo]

I have to ask... Does anyone have the old dart calanders? I have one picture (with the girls beside the car with various tools) and that has been my background for quite a while... I think its time for updating. Though it is a really nice photo of the car.

[wweissin]

Don't know if anyone has mentioned it. But the Dean might want to look up some of the Pirelli tire calendars

[Xeilos]

Originally posted by wweissin:
Don't know if anyone has mentioned it. But the Dean might want to look up some of the Pirelli tire calendars

Thanks Alex. I have seen enough of the Pirelli calendars before to know that it would ill advised to google them while at work. Atleast at my present work. Definitely (mostly) NSFW.

[cvargas]

Originally posted by thewoundedsoldier:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sbrenaman:
I feel like a girl in jeans/school-sweatshirt, working on the car, is a better promotion of women in FSAE.

Why do men get to make the decision on what is acceptable conduct for a woman?

This Sedra fellow sounds like a disgusting creature who needs to catch up with the freedom of thought that just swept his home country. Just shows the lines on which some people are bred to think.

I apologize if my comments are insensitive to anyone. I honestly do not mean to inflame the issue. It just sucks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't believe that it is a sexist decision but in the working professional world wearing a bikini is not allowed. As an FSAE team you DO represent the university, so I'm not sure a university wants to be known as the university with the bikini FSAE team. Although that seems like it'd be an awesome idea but hey I'm a guy lol.

I can see both sides of the coin. The team should have asked to take pictures because honestly that just seems like common sense. It isn't that difficult to send out an email asking for permission.

On the other hand, the University went plaid with their punishment, a simple hey take that shit down and don't do that again would have sufficed.

[thewoundedsoldier]

As an FSAE team you DO represent the university

This comment implies that the school is in SOME WAY supportive of the team. I come from the type of university that has absolutely nothing to do with the vehicles until they want to put the hybrid team's picture on the front of the department website. The only university employee who adds anything appreciable to the teams is the central shop technician (machinist).

I would not say that the formula-involved students at my school should feel obligated to carry the shield of SJSU. The school does not carry us, why should we carry them?

I know that the school owns the shop and all that jazz, but really there are a lot of teams that GIVE to their university more than they GET from it.

[cvargas]

Originally posted by thewoundedsoldier:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">As an FSAE team you DO represent the university

This comment implies that the school is in SOME WAY supportive of the team. I come from the type of university that has absolutely nothing to do with the vehicles until they want to put the hybrid team's picture on the front of the department website. The only university employee who adds anything appreciable to the teams is the central shop technician (machinist).

I would not say that the formula-involved students at my school should feel obligated to carry the shield of SJSU. The school does not carry us, why should we carry them?

I know that the school owns the shop and all that jazz, but really there are a lot of teams that GIVE to their university more than they GET from it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Getting anything from the university does not mean that you still don't represent the school. If their name is some where on your team, you represent the school, there is no other way to cut it.

[Charlie]

Originally posted by thewoundedsoldier:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">As an FSAE team you DO represent the university

This comment implies that the school is in SOME WAY supportive of the team. I come from the type of university that has absolutely nothing to do with the vehicles until they want to put the hybrid team's picture on the front of the department website.

I would not say that the formula-involved students at my school should feel obligated to carry the shield of SJSU. The school does not carry us, why should we carry them? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a really poor attitude.

The school is the reason that you can compete. The school takes on liability and as you state, has facilities (including machine shops) that they make available.

There are thousands of student athletes around the country and world (those not on full scholarship) that proudly represent their school in sporting events, and give their time to do so. Maybe you should take a step back and follow their example.

It's not about the school 'carrying' you or vice versa. It's about both student and university accomplishing something that neither could do alone.

Your attitude is exactly the type that can prevent your team from getting to the next level in terms of school support.

[thewoundedsoldier]

I don't mean to de-rail the thread, but...

I can tell you guys don't have the hardships I am talking about. In 2009-2010, I built our hybrid team from ground zero with absolutely zero school involvement/help/support/guidance. Upon returning from competition with a trophy, the school thought it should slap the team pictures all over the place as a marketing/recruiting tool for future students. Just thinking about it makes my blood boil.

I'll give you another example. Before FSAE was started at our school, the machine shop was practically unavailable to ALL students. Now, three years later, our SAE chapter runs the shop and many unrelated projects are able to use it because we have improved/maintenanced the machines and poured our own money into bringing everything on line. The university would not have this asset available if it were not for a few pivotal students who preceded me.

As for all the "attitude" comments, I can tell you that without the sort of "eff you" attitude I'm spewing, none of our SAE teams would have been able to grind through the crap and do what they've done. Being quiet and getting back in line just wouldn't cut it--not at this university.

"It's about both student and university accomplishing something that neither could do alone."

Going back to the original thread, I would say that this young woman could do a hell of a lot more if she wasn't muzzled by her university.

[Charlie]

When I started at Auburn we had no University support. Our official advisor in my firstyear, I only saw once and he basically stopped by to tell us we all sucked and we'd never finish the car. (Luckily we had an unofficial advisor who was great). We had all our own tools and raised all our own funds. We didn't have an real access to the machine shop and had to make due with a mill and lathe that weren't really fit for use.
Many team members spend hundreds (if not thousands) to build the car. I got my boss at work to sponsor us one hotel room in Detroit which we all slept in.

But I never for a second didn't think I represented the University.

I don't see how the University publicizing your efforts makes your 'blood boil.' That's ridiculous. You should be proud of that and use it to build your relationship with the University, not be immature and selfish about it (that's my trophy not theirs http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif )

My 'attitude' comment had nothing to do with being quiet and everything to do with being constructive and not destructive with your university relationship. I know first hand that a 'eff you' attitude is not a good long term goal, having been in your shoes and taken a different path, we found a lot of success and began a good longstanding relationship with the university. it wasn't easy and it took time, but it was worth it.

[cvargas]

Originally posted by Charlie:
When I started at Auburn we had no University support. Our official advisor in my firstyear, I only saw once and he basically stopped by to tell us we all sucked and we'd never finish the car. (Luckily we had an unofficial advisor who was great). We had all our own tools and raised all our own funds. We didn't have an real access to the machine shop and had to make due with a mill and lathe that weren't really fit for use.
Many team members spend hundreds (if not thousands) to build the car. I got my boss at work to sponsor us one hotel room in Detroit which we all slept in.

But I never for a second didn't think I represented the University.

I don't see how the University publicizing your efforts makes your 'blood boil.' That's ridiculous. You should be proud of that and use it to build your relationship with the University, not be immature and selfish about it (that's my trophy not theirs http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif )

My 'attitude' comment had nothing to do with being quiet and everything to do with being constructive and not destructive with your university relationship. I know first hand that a 'eff you' attitude is not a good long term goal, having been in your shoes and taken a different path, we found a lot of success and began a good longstanding relationship with the university. it wasn't easy and it took time, but it was worth it.

Bingo, there is a saying that I try to keep near and dear to heart and a lot of times fail at using it. You get more bees with honey then you do with vinegar. Work with your university to build a great SAE program and if bad situations arise, rise above them, keep a good attitude, because the moment you start giving lip to the people who could give you money and support forget about it.

[flavorPacket]

Charlie, I think you've laid out a really meaningful message about developing a long-term relationship between a FSAE program and a school. But sometimes, in the extreme short term, team leaders need to be more focused on the next 24 or 48 hours than the next 3 or 4 years. Few academic processes move quickly enough to allow a team to go through the system properly in this time frame. Thus, it is common for FSAE members to take shortcuts, or ask for forgiveness rather than permission.

The truth is, eventually push will come to shove, it will be 3am the week before comp, and they'll simply need to get stuff done. If a team really cares about its current car more than its future program, which is a totally reasonable position to adopt, then it will likely need to break some rules, annoy an administrator, or commit some other misdeed. At the end of the day, these teams are made up of novices, and expecting them to act like seasoned adults is setting everyone up for failure. Should professional conduct be the goal? Of course. But I've yet to find a seasoned adult who pulls 65 hour days to get a car ready (aside from a few very crusty old mechanics).

The standards which schools have for FSAEers are higher than those to which they hold themselves. This is largely because schools have no idea how much work it is for a bunch of kids to build a car. woundedsoldier and others are frustrated by this, and having been in their shoes, I don't blame them.

For me, the key was to exercise good judgment between acting short-term -- ramming through the obstacles put in place by the school -- and acting long-term -- setting up the right discussions and relationships to remove the obstacles moving forward. A successful team leader must be capable of using both tactics when it's prudent to do so.

[Mehul Botadra]

Straying away from topic! :P

Well Mr. Sedra has a Wikipedia page too!

h t t p ://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adel_Sedra#Controversy

Check out the last date of edit! :P



Well looking at the bright side, the university got a lot of media recognition! So did the team! :P

[Pennyman]

Originally posted by thewoundedsoldier:
I don't mean to de-rail the thread, but...

I can tell you guys don't have the hardships I am talking about. In 2009-2010, I built our hybrid team from ground zero with absolutely zero school involvement/help/support/guidance. Upon returning from competition with a trophy, the school thought it should slap the team pictures all over the place as a marketing/recruiting tool for future students. Just thinking about it makes my blood boil.

I'll give you another example. Before FSAE was started at our school, the machine shop was practically unavailable to ALL students. Now, three years later, our SAE chapter runs the shop and many unrelated projects are able to use it because we have improved/maintenanced the machines and poured our own money into bringing everything on line. The university would not have this asset available if it were not for a few pivotal students who preceded me.

As for all the "attitude" comments, I can tell you that without the sort of "eff you" attitude I'm spewing, none of our SAE teams would have been able to grind through the crap and do what they've done. Being quiet and getting back in line just wouldn't cut it--not at this university.

"It's about both student and university accomplishing something that neither could do alone."

Going back to the original thread, I would say that this young woman could do a hell of a lot more if she wasn't muzzled by her university.

Your concern is valid, but don't forget some of the unwritten benefits that our SAE chapter has received due to our diligence and persistent care of the shop. After hours passes, 24hr access, first name basis with professors (and possible internships because of it).

As one of our members would say: It's what you make of it.

Sorry to derail again. I'm really bummed for Waterloo. As a plus though, they could bring their current car to MIS in 2012 with more testing than any other team :P

[moose]

For me, the key was to exercise good judgment between acting short-term -- ramming through the obstacles put in place by the school -- and acting long-term -- setting up the right discussions and relationships to remove the obstacles moving forward. A successful team leader must be capable of using both tactics when it's prudent to do so.

+1

Every team is going to do stupid things, that's ok - it's part of learning. But there are lots of things that they can do to build a long-term relationship in a parallel path. This not only helps when it comes time to ask forgiveness but hopefully makes everything easier for teams in the future. It's very easy to get short sighted, but some decisions/actions need to at least consider the future as well.

Telling a department/school to take a hike and being stubborn about the whole thing is generally the wrong path to take. The time investment is huge and emotions come into play, but being professional in communications never hurts. Find a way to trade favors that are easy and don't cost money (i.e., bring car to event in exchange for publicity to recruit members)

[Ed West]

The wrong-headed nature of this decision is very troubling.

Here is a picture that was posted on the internet by the UW team on March 1st.

http://clanwest.com/FSAE/110301-UW-FSAE.jpg

This picture is with an FSAE team member posing with the UW car and appears to be taken in the same facility. The administration has no problem with this photo, so what is the problem with the other one. Do they require that all pictures taken within the Student Design Center receive prior approval - it appears not.

So why should the other photograph of a team member wearing socially acceptable attire not be acceptable? In my view the distinction exists entirely in the mind of the viewer - in this case Adel Sedra.

From the published articles that I have read, the intentions of the involved FSAE members were all good. I have seen no evidence that FSAE members were doing this for personal gain or were doing anything that was illegal or socially inappropriate.

The response of Adel Sedra appears to be personally motivated and there is no public evidence that there was an investigation of the actions and intentions of the involved FSAE members before the ruling was handed down. I am afraid that there was little due-process on the part of the university before the suspension of the entire team.

If all of the relevant information regarding these events has been made public, I am saddened by the unwillingness of the UW FSAE team leadership to oppose this ruling. UW has a long and successful history of involvement in the SAE collegiate competitions and the unilateral indictment of all of the FSAE team members is unacceptable. If the actions of the individuals involved can truly be shown to be in violation of an actual written university policy or provincial law, then they should be asked to appear in front of university disciplinary panel. They should share their intentions with the panel members and have the panel decide whether any disciplinary action should be taken. This is a clear case where the good of the many outweighs the opinion of the few, or possibly of the one in this case.

I am afraid that it is too late for these FSAE students to get the opportunities that they have worked so hard to achieve. Although, if this were happening to me, I would make sure to discuss these events with a lawyer before accepting the ruling of a university administrator.

Saddened FSAE Alumni

[thewoundedsoldier]

I have found that threatening legal action, or threatening to take the fight to the newspapers, works well when you are dealing with level-headed people. The problem is this Sedra guy obviously doesn't care about anyone's values except his own. The cultural belief in self-righteousness is disgusting.

It is why we have Faleh Almalekis in the world.

That's right. I said it! =P

[Kirk Feldkamp]

Dragging this one up from the bottom of the ocean, but I had to.

http://imgur.com/a/NoBuk#1

Now that's a sexy calendar right there! Awesome.

[scotty young Taylor Race]

Now that,s Funny Kirk....

[Xeilos]

Well done sir. Well done.

[wagemd]

Kirk, that's a little... enlightening... That guy was in my thermo or heat transfer class. How exactly did you find that? I might mention that he's not actually on our team, but works in the optics lab right outside ours. (You can see an old chassis on the OTHER side of the doors)

[stratplayer]

Originally posted by Kirk Feldkamp:
Dragging this one up from the bottom of the ocean, but I had to.

http://imgur.com/a/NoBuk#1

Now that's a sexy calendar right there! Awesome.

hahahaha I saw this posted on reddit and I never noticed the formula SAE banner until now. That is awesome!

[Kirk Feldkamp]

William Hung was in a bunch of my friend's classes the year behind me. Remember him? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RrLQUN8UJg) I guess you just never know who you're sitting next to in class!

Nihal (another Berkeley FSAE alum) found it and sent it to me. Somehow he knew it was from Washington! Haha.

[Mbirt]

Dean Sedra's efforts have been paying off: http://thewaterloohonk.wordpre...s-least-sexy-campus/ (http://thewaterloohonk.wordpress.com/2013/06/25/uwaterloo-officially-named-canadas-least-sexy-campus/)