2006 U of Washington Unveiling

[Denny Trimble]

Not to be outdone by certain teams who get their cars done very early, we've just rolled out our entry for next year's event. This should give us 12 months of testing before the west coast competition, but we don't think we'll need it. We might just take a break for 11 months, then fire it up next May.

Our new design saved 330lbs, thanks to the design tips we've gleaned from this forum.

Side View (http://students.washington.edu/dennyt/fsae/kart-waggoner1.jpg)
Steering and Pedals (http://students.washington.edu/dennyt/fsae/kart-pedals.jpg)

Such amenities as cable stops, heel rests, steering column support, etc. etc. have been discarded, as this is a pure racing machine!

We have an "active ackerman" system on the car, by means of grade 2 fasteners as kingpins, and wheelbarrow wheel bearings. Depending on loading, the toe can vary by +/- 2 degrees. Active camber is in the works, too...

Our corner weights are adjustable thanks to our lightweight mild steel frame, which underwent significant FEA analysis.

All we need to make it comp spec is an SAE sticker!

See you in California... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Denny Trimble]

Not to be outdone by certain teams who get their cars done very early, we've just rolled out our entry for next year's event. This should give us 12 months of testing before the west coast competition, but we don't think we'll need it. We might just take a break for 11 months, then fire it up next May.

Our new design saved 330lbs, thanks to the design tips we've gleaned from this forum.

Side View (http://students.washington.edu/dennyt/fsae/kart-waggoner1.jpg)
Steering and Pedals (http://students.washington.edu/dennyt/fsae/kart-pedals.jpg)

Such amenities as cable stops, heel rests, steering column support, etc. etc. have been discarded, as this is a pure racing machine!

We have an "active ackerman" system on the car, by means of grade 2 fasteners as kingpins, and wheelbarrow wheel bearings. Depending on loading, the toe can vary by +/- 2 degrees. Active camber is in the works, too...

Our corner weights are adjustable thanks to our lightweight mild steel frame, which underwent significant FEA analysis.

All we need to make it comp spec is an SAE sticker!

See you in California... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Bryan Hagenauer]

Uh, its supposed to be brown, not purple! The extra pigment in the paint added far too much complexity and weight to the car.

I like how there is more crash protection in the rear than the front. I think the designers were expecting that thing to be the slowest vehicle around http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Dr Claw]

is that a baja engine? or smaller?? That is a very nice looking seat, but i could probably supply you with a lighter one if you'd want. i like the floating roll hoops too, it seems much lighter http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

manual disk brakes, thats what I said when I joined the team..might have saved us the shit at the 04 comp not having an operating brake syetem...skrew hydralics..go cables!

[Denny Trimble]

If you want to know the real story, we were a little surprised when we returned from Detroit. It seems this was a one-man Capstone Design Project. Apparently, the person who designed and built this kart will be receiving a degree in mechanical engineering.

Some problems we noticed with it:
-inoperable brake and throttle cables, which are actually automotive heater vent control cables (solid wire in wound steel housing; no housing stops on either end; 90 degree bends with zip ties on the housing; unable to support any force or hold adjustment http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif )

-no steering column support except at the very bottom of the shaft, where it spins in its steel brackets (no bushings or bearings).

-tiny seat mounted on a "leaf spring"

-no provision for chain tensioning or alignment, and it's not right

-horrible use of fasteners in the suspension and steering system; insane amounts of play everywhere, no jamnuts on anything, and tack-welded hub adjustment nuts http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-the frame is warped by at least 1" at the wheels (diagonal corner weights), but it doesn't really matter because it's so flexible.

It's really pretty embarrassing to think that somebody got credit for this creation, and that they come from our department. But, I guess I should be thankful he didn't join the FSAE team http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Oh, and on the mechanical disk brake front, I have some on my mountain bike. They're not bad, though they require constant adjustment and would be difficult to keep properly balanced on a racecar. Not to mention they're a little undersized, especially in the pad department. But they might make a nice e-brake on the diff, now there's a thought...

[Travis Garrison]

What? You mean I don't get the year off?

Travis Garrison
UW FSAE

[John Bucknell]

Uh, I probably could have graduated four years earlier if I skipped FSAE and got to do that capstone project.... Unbelievable.

[Mike T.]

I, being one of our school's most unrelenting critics of the quality of our department, can't let this go without comment. I'll include a short disclaimer with respect to my my grammer and spelling skills, they do not reflect our university due to the copius amounts of alcohol I have consumed after my last finals for the 2004-2005 school year.

Continuing on... to exemplify John Bucknell's previous point, I built a go kart out of wood in my days as a middle schooler in the asshole of america that was more functional than this fine peice of machinery. Anyhow, on the eve of our final day of classes, I and a few others attempted to to do burnouts with this fine machine (and succeeded in a way), but found that even with nobody seated, it could only do one wheeler peelers due to the massive twist in the chassis. And, considering the crappy throttle pedal, this was only doable by manually holding the throttle at the engine end. It's impressive what a little bit of chain lube and a slick basement floor can accomplish in terms of smoke quantity.

The worst part is it'll likely earn a high grade, and conceded to some students and our machine design course professor that he didn't do any kind of analysis on the chassis like he wanted to, since he couldn't figure out how to use COSMOS in Solidworks. I think he missed the point that you're actually supposed to gain some sort of useful knowledge through the project, and that it should show it.

Sometimes I wish I could speak of our department more highly, but with this kind of thing going on, it's impossible. Anyhow, enjoy the humor, and be thankful you don't have to deal with these kinds of people if you don't,

Mike Trumbore
UWFSAE '02-'06

[B Hise]

I've seen some pretty atrocious capstone projects here at Maryland. It's scary that some of these kids are getting the same degree that I am. I guess people just stop trying if they can't do FSAE...

Bryan
UMD

[Dr Claw]

you have to remember though, FSAE is the easiest senior project ever...its already defined, and you can copy a design from last year. no need to be creative at all.

lawrence tech is hurt badly by this phenomenon. the seemingly HARDEST senior project is the easiest path to graduation for some people that dont want to do anything. that go-kart is probably comparable to some of effort put forth by the slackers on any FSAE team http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[EliseS2]

Good to see that this is a national phenonom. I see the same quality at my school, except that kart would be made with a team of four, which will go unnammed, but starts with m and ends with arquette. We call it senior design.

Some of you may be aware of the basic utility vehicle competition. Essentially it is a challenge to make a cheap vehicle for third world countries. It uses the same briggs engines as the Baja cars. This competition really can highlight brilliant mistakes. One car had steering similar to the kart presented, only worse. Instead of having two threaded rods coming off off the steering shaft, there was only one. This rod then whent to the left upright. Then another threaded rod, looked to be about a 1/4 inch in diameter, spanned from the left wheel to the right. Under a right turn it worked fine since the rods were in tension, but left turns were trickier. The shorter rod was fine, but the longer rod would just buckle, causing the only the right wheel to turn. This was in addition to a kingpin inclination that caused the ride hieght to jump up about two inches under full lock. Seat belts that were stapled to the wooden seat. the only brake was a cable brake going to a 5in diameter rear disk. The vehicle was a two seater with the pedals set up for left hand drive, except the steering wheel was perfectly centered between the two "seats." Luckily for them and innocent victims they were incredibly inept. They did not think it was important to know which direction the engine rotated. They assumed the opposite way, they learned this after the car was completed and they tried to drive it.

This is only one of the BUVs. Another figured that they needed a mechanical reduction in the steering. So instead of using a simple rack and pinion, they bought a reduction box for a 20hp motor. They tried to weld the cast iron reduction box housing to thier 4340 (yes 4340), frame, even when the housing had a mounting bracket in the perfect orienation. This is also in addition to the brilliant idea of having a chain drop from the gearbox (unsprung) to the sprung driveshaft.

Some other senior design highlights include a human powered vehicle that was just a recumbant bike that was bought off the shelf. A whole collection of battle bots, including one that instead of a welded frame used jb weld.

Also the forumla team would get a senior design team made up of EE and CEs to do the electrical design. After two groups attempting, finally a third actually produced something. They made a dash for us with a oil waring light (low pressure) and a tach. The light did not work. The tach did work. We requested 1000rpm to 13000rpm in 500 rpm increments. Well instead of working at 1000 rpm, it worked at 1000hz, slight difference.

Needless to say all of these students passed the class, many even getting As. This is because they actually built something, instead of many groups not even making anything.

[Denny Trimble]

There's quite a gap between the standards students are graded on in universities (the design projects mentioned in this thread), and the standards we're held up to in the Design judging tents at competition.

It's like the difference between a professional race engineer and somebody who doesn't know the difference between a mill and a drill press...

I wish more people understood the value of FSAE. But, I guess it's up to us to promote it.

Oh yeah, the only other project at UW that actually builds anything is the human powered sub team. And they always say "I wanted to do something cool, but you guys spend too much time on your project, so we picked the sub team".

Kids these days, I tell ya... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[B Hise]

Haha, our sub team is unbeliveably lazy. We scare off the slackers here too. Much better off without them. Our team doesn't farm out any of our subsystems to other classes or senior peojects because of the problems EliseS2 mentioned. Some engineering students just dont have the knack to design parts, all they want to do is run numbers. Or do nothing. Lame...

Bryan
UMD

[CMURacing - Prometheus]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by B Hise:
Some engineering students just dont have the knack to design parts, all they want to do is run numbers. Or do nothing. Lame...
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Quick poll:

which would you rather do, run numbers (and make bank because instead of doing engineering you're working in some finance job at $200k per year 4 years out of school), or be poor, work 120 hours per week, and produce racecars for a living?

Seriously, though, I think if enough of us get together, we could have a serious shot at starting a (pro) race team. i'll go find some venture capital people, who's with me?

[TG]

I'm trying to get FSAE started up here at ASU. One of the things I'm trying to do is get a class set up for the team, on top of possible senior design stuff. The stuff on this thread scares me, but luckily I've heard enough other teams having some success that I'm not too worried. If anybody does try shit like this though, I think it might be time for my foot to meet their ass. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[mtg]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TG:
I'm trying to get FSAE started up here at ASU. One of the things I'm trying to do is get a class set up for the team, on top of possible senior design stuff. The stuff on this thread scares me, but luckily I've heard enough other teams having some success that I'm not too worried. If anybody does try shit like this though, I think it might be time for my foot to meet their ass. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Tim Gruhl
President, ASU SAE </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you are starting a team, I'd recommend not having it part of a class. As mentioned above, when there's a grade associated with it, people tend to do "just enough work not to get fired", or this case, a failing grade.

Our team has no class credit with it. We also have no slackers, they quit immediately because they don't have to be there. One of the larger problems we have is people trying to do too much work and reinvent the wheel all the time.

If people want a senior design project, let a couple senior veteran team members basically get a little credit for something they were already going to do anyway. Other than that, I think class credit hurts the team.

[TG]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mtg:
If you are starting a team, I'd recommend not having it part of a class. As mentioned above, when there's a grade associated with it, people tend to do "just enough work not to get fired", or this case, a failing grade.

Our team has no class credit with it. We also have no slackers, they quit immediately because they don't have to be there. One of the larger problems we have is people trying to do too much work and reinvent the wheel all the time.

If people want a senior design project, let a couple senior veteran team members basically get a little credit for something they were already going to do anyway. Other than that, I think class credit hurts the team. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've been basically hand picking the people that will be in this class. All of them are A students and seniors. It will all be for tech elective credit in a project design class. All of the guidelines and a timeline will be figured out before the beginning of the semester. In addition, we were trying to go to competition this year, but the money didn't play out, so we now have material suppliers and know what we have to work with.
Something tells me I won't have to worry about their motivation. I think my main worries will definately be elsewhere (getting money for one, other parts of the design that will not be in the class, etc.)

[mysticv6]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TG:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mtg:
If you are starting a team, I'd recommend not having it part of a class. As mentioned above, when there's a grade associated with it, people tend to do "just enough work not to get fired", or this case, a failing grade.

Our team has no class credit with it. We also have no slackers, they quit immediately because they don't have to be there. One of the larger problems we have is people trying to do too much work and reinvent the wheel all the time.

If people want a senior design project, let a couple senior veteran team members basically get a little credit for something they were already going to do anyway. Other than that, I think class credit hurts the team. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've been basically hand picking the people that will be in this class. All of them are A students and seniors. It will all be for tech elective credit in a project design class. All of the guidelines and a timeline will be figured out before the beginning of the semester. In addition, we were trying to go to competition this year, but the money didn't play out, so we now have material suppliers and know what we have to work with.
Something tells me I won't have to worry about their motivation. I think my main worries will definately be elsewhere (getting money for one, other parts of the design that will not be in the class, etc.)

Tim Gruhl
President, ASU SAE </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd rethink having 'A' students. I say this because when you have 'A' students, they may have the book smarts, but are almost never willing to put the time into it that it needs, because they are too busy concentrating on school, and can't be dedicated enough to the program. This is a problem we've had before, and the trend seems to be the better your grades are, the less of an asset you are to the team.

Building a fast race car is not necesarily related to good grades...

[Vince]

We have a class at our college. Anyone who wants to be in the class has to fill out a form. The prof picks the people based on background and on word of mouth from active members in SAE. However, i don't think that A's only should be allowed. We had a couple of people who had A's and don't do anything or understand why you can't make that part. Which is better a gearhead with a C or someone who has never picked up a hand tool that has an A? Remember you got to make a car. You can't teach common sense

Vince
Texas A&M

[TG]

I didn't set it up so only A students can join, it just so happens that the people whom have shown interest are A students. As far as the book smarts, true to some extent, but I believe these guys are very interested in this and have something to prove. Besides I do have a couple of good contacts that will be advising us on to what to do and what not to do (a former driver for Minardi and current Ferrari test driver comes to mind). But I do think that their interest and past projects that they've completed show that this is a plausible idea.

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

not to be outdone, here is our 06 car, I know one school had a "stock" barstool at competition, so we decided to turbocharge ours...look out Cornell, we are boosting now too......

http://www.sdsefi.com/features/apr00stool.htm

few more picts:

http://www.tgfab.com/Funny.htm

seriously, its not ours, but they it looks like the turbo is fully functional and gosh, that would be be death!