Honda CX500 engine

[Math ze engineer]

Hey guys
Anyone ever tried or know something about CX500 V twin engines. They are old (1980) but the stock engine has around 80hp with a carburetor. Anyway we would make it turbo or supercharged or N/A if we lack of time so the final result depend on us. I don't know how heavy it is but it seems to be a good one for low rpm torque. We have a CBR 600RR and it is overheating (maybe because its too lean due to lack off loaded tuning). I know some people would tell me to go for aprilia V twin instead but we cant afford this and we have that honda sponsorship which force us to go for honda engines. I don't even know if they will sponsor next year...
Anyone know something about it?

Thank you
Designing a whole car alone is going to be a challenge this year.

[Math ze engineer]

Hey guys
Anyone ever tried or know something about CX500 V twin engines. They are old (1980) but the stock engine has around 80hp with a carburetor. Anyway we would make it turbo or supercharged or N/A if we lack of time so the final result depend on us. I don't know how heavy it is but it seems to be a good one for low rpm torque. We have a CBR 600RR and it is overheating (maybe because its too lean due to lack off loaded tuning). I know some people would tell me to go for aprilia V twin instead but we cant afford this and we have that honda sponsorship which force us to go for honda engines. I don't even know if they will sponsor next year...
Anyone know something about it?

Thank you
Designing a whole car alone is going to be a challenge this year.

[L B0MB]

There is an amazing website called "Google" that enables people to find the information they seek

It is amazing how many people dont seem to know of it...

http://users.monash.edu.au/~jhovel/cx500.shtml (http://users.monash.edu.au/%7Ejhovel/cx500.shtml)

[Math ze engineer]

@L Bomb
Quite a bit sarcastic answer. Just to let you know that I googled it a while before asking here and I didn't find any FSAE application feedback (justlike your link doesn't talk about fsae but still interesting info in it)
I just want people's opinion on it, like pros and cons

[Grant Mahler]

I've never heard of any team running that engine in the last 10 years. I think you'd have to go back a long ways to find someone that ran that.

And I second what L Bomb said. Do your research, come to some conclusions, and test it. Internet forums are not going to make good engineering decisions for you.

[L B0MB]

Sarcasm is but one of the services I have to offer

Why are you looking into this engine when it sounds like you haven't even got the CBR engine running well?

[vreihen]

The Wikipedia page brings back memories about the CX500 for me. It also tells about the factory turbocharged/fuel injected version, questions your horsepower estimates, and explains some of the design "features" that you will have to work around when building the engine or packaging it in your car. Per a magazine article on the Monash link above, the CX500 was a heavy beast in it's day...and hasn't gotten any lighter as motorcycle technology evolved over time.....

[Grant Mahler]

For the record, Rob Woods is my idol. I just want to throw out there something he said in the Diff vs. Spool thread:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The whole point behind going with a solid axle was to get the car to perform well without the cost or weight of a differential. To add a diff negates the concept completely so either run a solid axle or an IRS. The only other possibilty is to run a de-dion but that is a complitcated setup of its own. I think you need to take the advice of the people here and what I have told the team a thousand times. Test what you have to great detail and log what is going on and discover the true deficiencies and find out if there is a working solution. Dont go looking into other design alternatives until you have proven the concept can no longer be dealt with. An undertuned engine, undertuned cvt, undertuned suspension netted UB an 18th finish. 6 months of development would have landed you in the top 10. Instead reengineering a system that wasnt fully understood took place and for that reason the car wasnt completed and the team went from 18th to zero in a year. Any of the people on this site that have any experience will tell you that development of subsystems/vehicles wins competitions. Not the next bright and shiny. My suggestion would be to screw the diff idea, build a set of adjustable rear and front anti roll bars and go test the car for 3 months straight and find out what needs to be done. You will find yourself with a car that handles good without the waste in time and money on the next bright idea that was based on assumptions and not data. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just think about it.

[Math ze engineer]

I did all researchs I could for months about this engine on the net, in my town and people I know.

Now I come here to be told "you came here for free answers without doing any researches". Who are you to say that?

What's the point of this forum if you say "get out and search on your own". I check other threads like "CBR600RR dyno" and the guy asking for CBR600RR engine's performances haven't been told "JUST BUY ONE AND TRY IT, I WON'T HELP YOU AND GO AWAY!". He just got some constructive answers for a similar question as mine. So what's the problem with my thread?

[Zac]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">So what's the problem with my thread? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The difference is that he asked direct questions with non-obvious answers(to someone with an engineering background, but maybe not a lot of experience with FSAE), you went on a fishing expedition.

But to answer your question, a quick google search shows that the CX500 is heavier than a modern 600, doesn't make as much power stock, may or may not package nicely, and has some idiosyncrasies(see issues section of wikipedia) that you probably don't want to deal with. I would also go out on a limb and say that a motor designed in the late 90's or early 2000's is going to be infinity better than one from the late 70's.

But it really doesn't sound like you've done a good job developing the motor you're currently running. I agree with the Rob Woods quote, you should get your current package tuned up to a pretty high level before you even consider making a switch. There are a lot of valid design directions you can go in this competition, but roughly 90% of this competition is execution.

[Kirby]

Echoing here.

You have Honda Sponsorship. Use it.

There is a reason the Honda 600 4-cyls have accounted for the majority of the field worldwide, You have the latest and greatest--600RR. I know it's a good engine, I've seen it race. Like everyone else here; don't give up on it because you are having cooling issues, solve them, You aren't going to save any resources by changing engine package.

I don't think any one that has used an aprillia is going to tell you to use one...That engine is for the brave (or crazy).

[Grant Mahler]

Sorry to continue in the same vein, but if you have spent months researching which engine to switch to when all you have is a cooling problem on a common FSAE engine you might consider how you are spending your time and if the benefits (of switching to a new engine) are worth the drawbacks.

I would venture if you had spent the months you took researching this new engine, you would have solved your cooling issues.

And I second Zac and Kirby. Direct, hard to answer questions are what this forum excels at. You should have been able to answer your own question with a simple logic test. If you can't find any information on this engine....how easy is it going to be to work on? To find parts for? To upgrade? To ask questions on here or at your local mechanic? Do what you will...but these are what immediately come to my mind.

Just my 0.02c