Out of hours workshop proposal

[Dunk Mckay]

I've seen a few interesting threads regarding the different levels of access teams have to their workshop. Some with 24/7 unsupervised access, other with very limited access.
We currently have 9-5 access five days a week and recently requested extended hours unsupervised, this included the proposal that team members be given health and safety training and our machining room be locked and powered down, so we would only be able to use small power and hand tools. We were more or less shot down and told we could have extra hours if our technician was willing to work overtime. He is but this is only really going to gain us a couple of hours per week.

I was wondering if anybody had had any success requesting unsupervised/extended access in the past where before they had none.
Also if any successful teams have extended unsupervised access and would like to write a recommendation we could present to our faculty suggesting it is a key component to completing and testing a successful car that would be very welcome.
At a push I would ask if any event judges on here want to send a letter of recommendation for this. But for obvious reasons I'm not expecting any to.

I should probably also mention that usually when we get to the 11th hour before competition and a car is still not finished that staff will often turn a blind eye and the team will work 24/7 for the last week or so. But that's all a bit late and student expulsion has been threatened by other staff members for this in the past.
This year we are further ahead with our build and hoping that limited hours will not become a major problem for us, but this has meant cutting down our design period significantly, so for future years and so we have a safety net (and can increase test time further).

[Ben K]

The key is getting an office of risk management to sign off on it. The Admin will say no very often just because they are lazy. If you get a signed letter from your risk management, they probably will go along with it.

Ben

[mech5496]

We have unlimited access to our workshop but this is a priviledge we gained by demonstrating that we know and respect all safety rules. We also train all new team members how to use the machines and we supervise them during their first year in team. That being said, we feel much safer without our technicians. The fact that we dont have a single injury throughout the hears helps a lot too...

[Dunk Mckay]

As far as I'm aware we haven't had a single serious injury in the 4 years I've been around. A few minor cuts is all.
Our project supervisor/faculty advisor is on the health and safety board for the uni. But it's his first year with the project so I think he's a bit overcautious at the moment, which is understandable, but not very helpful.

[cal_len1]

At my school a similar thing happened. We used to have unlimited access, but the hours have slowly been cut until now we only have M-F 7:30-4:30 and Saturdays if our adviser is around. All of the machines in our shop are key card access and you have to be observed using them before access is given, even bench grinders. In our shop there have been only a few very minor injuries, it was just the worry of being held liable if something were to happen that prompted this.

There are several teams that use the shop; so what we did was to get a list together of all the parts made and how long each one of them take. After tabulating all the hours we discovered that with the machine time that was available we would not be able to finish any of the things we needed to. The department was much more willing to help at that point. They even suggested that they would buy us another CNC mill to help us get our stuff done.

Callen
South Dakota School of Mines & Tech
2012-2013 Drivetrain Lead

[JulianH]

I don't know if this helps (it's like a kid wanting a PlayStation because "everybody else has one". My mom never listened...), but we also have 24/7 access to our workshop.

Sadly, we don't have a lot of scary machines, just some old lathes and milling-machines, no CNC.

If it really helps, I will gladly sign such a letter to your university as a representative of our team but I doubt that it will make a difference.


All the best,

Julian

[Penn Electric Racing]

I think you're going to have a difficult time. After a young at Yale was killed in their machine shop a few years ago (link (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/14/nyregion/yale-student-dies-in-machine-shop-accident.html?_r=0)), every school around us is tightening down on hours and safety restrictions. In past years we did have 24/7 access to the machine shop but those days are over.

[Matthew Newman]

At our University, we are allowed 24/7 access to our lab (most of the team members have keys), and we are able to use all our tools. Unfortunately, we are only allowed access to the mechanical engineering workshop during weekday work hours, since we require official supervision to use the lathes.

On getting access to your lab out of hours, you need to prove to your faculty that your team can work safely in your lab. You will probably need to do hazard and risk assessments, and have formal meetings with your faculty and your Safety & Health Office (if you have one).

[Z]

Dunk,

1. Team member whose Dad has a shed.

2. Team member whose Mum doesn't mind you building car on kitchen table.

3. Shipping container. Err... with small generator, ... and fridge... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Z

[Jan_Dressler]

Originally posted by Z:
3. Shipping container. Err... with small generator, ... and fridge... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Z
We have the deluxe version http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
http://i45.tinypic.com/2drtj74.jpg
But access to the big machines: Only supervised. We are lucky to have some some guys who are very enthusiastic about the whole Formula thing... So if things get really tight, it effectively means 24/7.

[NickFavazzo]

In follow up to mat Newman (uwam) We don't have 24/7 access to machine equipment, we don't really have access to mills at all.

Our 24/7 access is for handheld tools only (and a drill press, which you can do some pretty handy things with...). We kind of got permission to use our own welder because they mixed up their own channels in trying to not let us, regardless, there is plenty of documentation required for all tools in our workshop, both as a result of our own safety and training processes and what the uni want from us.

Approved user table for electric/pneumatic hand tools and an approved trainer list (select few). The rules frequently get changed on us so you need to keep asking "what do we need to do to do this..." do that and keep up to date on the new "rules". Expect plenty of training and paperwork.

Another thing is coming across as professionals rather than students, that helps immensely. Any incident, make sure you are the first ones ready with the paperwork, show them you mean business and get things done properly. If they are happy with how well you do the annoying paperwork stuff it looks good for both the individual and the team.

[Dewi Griffiths]

Hi Dunk,

As another UK University I thought I'd let you know what it's like here.

The students have access to limited amounts of machines however it is getting better. In previous years, as we approach the event we are granted out of hours use of our build area but NOT workshops unless some technicians are willing to come in as overtime (or out of the goodness of their heart). It's the whole 11th hour thing as I'm sure you know.

Our faculty advisor does make a good point though. A team should be able to manage its time in such a way that any practical work should be done in usual operational hours (9 - 5 minus tea breaks) and PC/Design work done outside of this in the labs that are 24/7.

Closer to the competition, outside of main term time, the rules are bent a little. But this is usually due to the head of school being quite sympathetic.

[mmw2753]

Our team has our own work area in a lab with other senior design projects, where we share a machine and welding shop. Card access 24/7 for team members to work anywhere except for the welding and machine shops, which are open from 8 am to 11 pm (supervisors only present 8 am to 5 pm). We can sign waivers to give us access to the machine and welding shops 24/7 provided that there are always at least 2 team members present and one of them is a team leader.

[onemaniac]

Dunk, We were pretty much in the same situation.
Our regular shop hours is from 8 to 4.
After everyone was done with classes and had all the time in the world, the shop was closed.
No tools, no machines. Most of the days of a week we literally got stuck doing nothing.
Sometime a few of us with similar schedule was able to squeeze some work session between classes but it was only couple of days a week. Even then, when we had the time (or skipped classes to build the car) there were instances machine shop class was running so we got kicked out.

The solution to that was having a member in our team who is a certified machinist to supervise us and the school would put him in charge and pay him while the shop is running after hours. The school agreed to pay him up to 15 hours a week but after some time we showed that we work safely and clean up the machines well, we sort of gained the trust from school. Nowadays whenever he is available we just run the shop more than 15 hours a week, and our shop master is totally cool with it.

[Dunk Mckay]

Originally posted by Z:
Dunk,

1. Team member whose Dad has a shed.

2. Team member whose Mum doesn't mind you building car on kitchen table.

3. Shipping container. Err... with small generator, ... and fridge... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Z
I had contemplated 2 and 3. In fact I had thought about lending my own garage out to the team if I had one and lived in the area while graduating. But a garage without tools or space is pretty limiting and you can't ship a car to and from the workshop and garage every morning and evening, bad things will happen.

On top of that the uni considers the car to be entirely it's property (different argument, I would say it probably has a majority stake though all things considered). So removing it from uni property other than for sanctioned test days and of course events would no doubt in their eyes qualify as theft.

[BluSTi]

We have a massive shop at our disposal, with increasing hours as the deadline looms larger. We have a 2-man rule, and generally one of those people is a TA (employed by the school as a supervisor). We're very lucky with our resources, now if we could get motivated students...