FSAE Team at Binghamton?

[Abdullah Ahmed]

I'm going to be a freshman in the fall of this year and I really want to start a FSAE team here. Binghamton already has a mini Baja team so it should be a little easier to get one going, but I understand that it will be very difficult. I have no idea of how many kids are interested, and I haven't had any experience. I just want to know if you guys had any suggestions or tips. And what problems would I run into? So far I can see funding and resources being a problem.

I will be vigorously reading/researching this website in the mean time. I will start my mechanical engineering major as a sophomore and I really want to build an fsae car for my senior design project.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[Kirk Feldkamp]

Some light reading:
http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/t...7348/m/824105905/p/1 (http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/824105905/p/1) (Any way to objectively choose engine?)
http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/t...607348/m/75910000131 (http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/75910000131) (single vs. four poll)
http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/t...607348/m/46710996521 (http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/46710996521) ( Life, the Universe, and our curious obsession with engines)
http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/t...7348/m/217101453/p/1 (http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/217101453/p/1) (Reasoning your way through the FSAE design process)
http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/t...48/m/45420618151/p/1 (http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/45420618151/p/1) (Fantasy Car)

Starting a team from scratch is more about management and accumulating resources than it is about building the car. I co-started our team back in 2001, and it took a number of years to get our first car to comp. While not impossible to get your first car to comp in under a year, it's improbable. It really depends on how quickly you can pull together the people, money, materials, equipment, and space to build the car. In the beginning, understanding how to generate realistic timelines and stick them will feel very foreign, but it may be the single biggest positive contribution the founders of a new team can instill in the organization. There are a few good threads on this forum where team management is discussed at great length.

From a technical standpoint, if you read through the threads above in their entirety, you will get the sense that "the problem" can be much simpler than some teams make it to be. As a first year team, try to generate an understanding of what's actually important and what's not. Many newer or inexperienced team will try to build the "fantasy car" without any concept of what that takes and how difficult it really is execute and drive. There are now plenty of examples out there of teams that have bucked the trend and done very well with intentionally simplified vehicles and programs. If you can instill the "less is more" philosophy early on, that will also pay dividends long term. Many many many people I have met over the years find the Claude Rouelle's seminars to provide a huge leap forward in the understanding of vehicle and suspension dynamics. Do yourselves a favor and figure out how to get to one.

Something that I wish we had also implemented earlier is some form of legitimate driver training and development. As a brand new team, you are definitely behind the 8 ball because you don't have any "prior art" to go flog every weekend. My advice is to build into your program budget a REAL effort to buy, run, and maintain between 1 and 3 go karts. Get them used (duh), and they don't have to be the latest and greatest, or the most competitive chassis/engine. This can be part of a multi-year plan, but it will pay off bigtime in the future. This year we finally we able to put together a ladder system of karts that new drivers can work up through as they gain skills and get faster. The ladder is now World Formula, PRD (a TaG engine [single-speed, electric start]), and the SA250 (the 4-stroke TaG engine in the car last year). If you plan on having a multi-speed gearbox (most teams do), then knock the SA250 off that list and add a shifter kart. Yes, it can be an 80, but the 125 is going to be much more representative of the speed you're going to need to think at. Karts are easy to maintain, easy to run, and are basically the best bang for the buck training that you're going to find for something like FSAE. Do not underestimate the importance of your drivers being up to speed before you ever truly know what the cars you're building can really do!

GOOD LUCK! I know the world of pain you are about to enter. Haha.

-Kirk

[Z]

Here is another recent thread to add to Kirk's list:
http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/t...607348/m/90320078151 (http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/90320078151) (Advice on Starting a New Team from Scratch).

Z

[Edward M. Kasprzak]

Two pieces of advice:

1. Do your homework (you're off to a good start by asking here). You want to present as solid a "business case" as you can with realistic expectations of everything involved. You can't run solely on emotion/excitement. It's easier for others to join/suppport you in pursuit of goals instead of "dreams". Your research and planning will help you define your dreams in terms of goals.

2. Work with your existing infrastructure. Your school has a Baja team, student chapter officers and a Faculty Advisor. Approach them carefully and earn their support. What you *don't* want to do is show up, boldly/carelessly announce you're starting a Formula team, and have everyone else asking "who does this guy think he is?". (I've seen this happen. It doesn't work.) You need allies, not opposition. Of course, you won't get the full support of the Baja team (there are inherent resource conflicts), but you need the student leadership and the Faculty Advisor on-board. The best way to do this is to go back to point #1 above.

[BrendonD]

Running a start-up FSAE team was as much of a political exercise as it was an engineering challenge. If you are aiming to run the program, recruit two or three good guys that have primary responsibility over the engineering project of actually putting a car together. If you are aiming to take on a chief engineering role, find someone that can be your "VP Sales" so to speak that represents you well whenever you have to deal with the bureaucracy of the university or attract sponsors.

Try and keep as much control over your operations as you can manage. Don't rely on university departments / anyone else to get parts ordered or disburse funds.

Best of luck!

[BrendonD]

An afterthought, albeit an important one: For the "real world" application of what you'll read on this site, go find an established team in your area and visit them, they will be happy to answer questions.