What are your favorite FSAE Cars?

[BMH]

I saw a thread like this over on the Baja SAE Forums and figured it would be interesting having one here as well. The thread listed what cars everyone liked from years passed. This doesn't have to have anything to do with performance, just the kind of cars that you saw across the parking lot and instantly wanted to go check out.

[flavorPacket]

2006 RMIT - monocoque single before it was cool...
2008 UWA
2008 Stuttgart

[RobbyObby]

Penn State's 2009 car is a personal favorite. I mean, who can't fall in love with a sub 300lb spaceframe.
Also, Purdue's car at MIS this year was one of the best looking FSAE cars I've ever seen.

[MegaDeath]

Tu Graz car in Michigan 2009
Missouri S&T 2010 car
Oklahoma 2010 car

[sbrenaman]

Portland State 2011. Pretty sweet paint job and graphics. I guess I'm biased though.

[RobbyObby]

Originally posted by sbrenaman:
Portland State 2011. Pretty sweet paint job and graphics. I guess I'm biased though.

If we're comparing paint jobs, you may have some competition with Sac State this year.

[Drew Price]

2006 Helsinki Polytechnic - the one with the baller photo shoot.
2011 Maryland College Park - should have gone with a Red Baron iron cross paint job with that many airfoils.
2007 Chalmers Inst. tech - awesome sounding whiney supercharged 600
2007 Firenze Tech - Italian team right down the street from the Ducati plant, who de-stroked a 649 Desmo twin - sounded AMAZING. When they could get it to start.....

[Umur Selek]

Oakland 2011 , sweet bodywork http://www.facebook.com/photo....79226&type=1&theater (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=218912511465321&set=a.218904914799414.55494.109773472379226&type=1&theater)


TuGraz- All years

[RiNaZ]

I like 2005 Penn State car ... or is it 2006 with titanium chassis.

[poe21]

2009 UAS Graz, TU Graz, Penn State, RIT(I watched them run enduro at MIS, and they would have won if not for fuel economy)

2010 UTA (something about an AERO loaded turbo 250), Stuttgart, TU Graz

2011 GFR ... the Winged Version, Purdue

[Gruntguru]

Sophia 2010 - very pretty.

[Ralph_]

UAS Graz 2008 - best looking car ever!

[Will M]

Oxford Brookes 2011. Gorgeous aluminium monocoque.

[AxelRipper]

Though it never actually ran at competition, I think Western Washington's Viking XXX is one of the most legendary of all time... A freaking V8 in FSAE?

http://dot.etec.wwu.edu/fsae/viking30.htm

[Some Guy]

I was gonna say the same as AxelRipper. Viking XXX is an awesome machine.

[bob.paasch]

I'm biased, of course. My favorites are based on performance rather than aesthetics.

GFR10: the twins. Two identical cars (except for paint), with three scores over 900 between them.

DUT10: the end of the line for a very successful design, probably the best points scoring design we've seen to date under 100 point fuel scoring.

UWA 2007/08: astonishing transient dynamics for 4 cylinder cars.

Rennteam F0711-3: I'm pretty sure this car had the highest score of all time, probably the best points scoring design ever under 50 point fuel scoring.

[Bemo]

Originally posted by bob.paasch:
Rennteam F0711-3: I'm pretty sure this car had the highest score of all time, probably the best points scoring design ever under 50 point fuel scoring.
In Australia we had 961 points which is the all time record as far as we know. It wouldn't have made a difference if the 100 fuel points rule would already have been in charge - we won fuel there!

By the way TU Graz 2008 - best looking car ever.

[The AFX Master]

TUG 08.. Gorgeous car without the whale template rules. Altough tankia 10 in Red is astonishing too. Not that impresive in blue trim.

UWA 09 when they finally won Michigan.

Almost all Graz cars since 07.

Vicking XXX. The most epic piece of engineering badassery ever done in FSAE. It was only laking UWA´s suspension an active aero to be just perfect. I liked their ´´rocket chassis´´

UTA´s CBR 250 RR turbos with active aero driven by Kenny.. Most awesome sound ever.

Pennstate Titanium everythings from 09 and 08. Liked the white 07 tough.

Helsinki 07.

RIT 09. Specially their rare torsen´esque diff with clear casing And these polycarbonate windows on the upright wich allowed to see the spindle spinning.

Brookes Al Monocoque, elegant, classy..

And i forgot... AMZ´s Zurich, every single of them. Absolutely perfect from any angle...

[Diablo_niterider]

2008 Stuttgart car - F0711-3 –


4 cylinder RR, Beautiful Spaceframe, 200 kgs,
Get Goose bumps and my heart sinks everytime I see this video.
http: // www .you tube .com /watch?v =grM_ Z39fn44


2008 T U Graz car –


Your jaw drops when you see it upclose and especially are lucky enough to get a private tour in the middle of the
night special thanks – Lucas.


2007 T U Munchen –


U really wanna just get in and drive this one.


2008 Dart racing - T U Darmstadt –

the most beautiful 15 inch 3 spoke Carbon Rims with Pirellis, I could stare at them the entire day and not to mention
their calender. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


2010 Turin PT –

A 4 cylinder spaceframe with 13 inchers, racing the top 3 which are all Carbon tubs and lapping a second faster.



Of all I that i have been lucky enough to have seen upclose till date(not in photos)

[Diablo_niterider]

@ Bemo –
any chance you would let me drive your 2008 car
Ton of beer? anything?
http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif pretty please

I am serious, What would it take to let me drive the 2008 Stuttgart car - F0711-3



...

[coleasterling]

Originally posted by Bemo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bob.paasch:
Rennteam F0711-3: I'm pretty sure this car had the highest score of all time, probably the best points scoring design ever under 50 point fuel scoring.
In Australia we had 961 points which is the all time record as far as we know. It wouldn't have made a difference if the 100 fuel points rule would already have been in charge - we won fuel there!

By the way TU Graz 2008 - best looking car ever. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[bob.paasch]

Originally posted by coleasterling:
Does FH count? If so, then Texas A&M wins by 20 points. 2009 got 981...next closest team only had 758.

Sorry, no. In as much as only 6 cars scored points in every event, that doesn't count. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[coleasterling]

Ya, they had some stiff competition that year...

You guys should run your electric car as a hybrid in progress next year...FH needs some more real teams to start competing.

[Bemo]

Originally posted by Diablo_niterider:
@ Bemo –
any chance you would let me drive your 2008 car
Ton of beer? anything?
http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif pretty please

I am serious, What would it take to let me drive the 2008 Stuttgart car - F0711-4

First of all the 2008 car is the F0711-3 (third car we've built).
The point is that it is driving again since Saturday - after standing around with a ruined engine for almost 1,5 years. The waiting list for driving it is quite long...

[Fantomas]

Originally posted by coleasterling:
Ya, they had some stiff competition that year...

You guys should run your electric car as a hybrid in progress next year...FH needs some more real teams to start competing.

If I would be in an FH team I would think about switching to an electric car, since I have not seen a competitive hybrid FS car to date, but the electric cars are definetely very competitive and the complexity is not such a nightmare.

Fantomas

[nowhere fast]

Originally posted by bob.paasch:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by coleasterling:
Does FH count? If so, then Texas A&M wins by 20 points. 2009 got 981...next closest team only had 758.

Sorry, no. In as much as only 6 cars scored points in every event, that doesn't count. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Careful now, not many cars scored points in every event at fsae-a 2008 either.

[Bemo]

That's true, but I wouldn't say the number of cars which finish all events is such a good indicator for the competitiveness of the event in general.
If there is only one awesome team, it is very hard to get a lot of points.

Anyway, FH is imo another series so it doesn't make much sense to compare scores.

[bob.paasch]

Originally posted by Bemo:
That's true, but I wouldn't say the number of cars which finish all events is such a good indicator for the competitiveness of the event in general.
If there is only one awesome team, it is very hard to get a lot of points.

Anyway, FH is imo another series so it doesn't make much sense to compare scores.


I'd agree, the number of finishers is a weak indication of competitiveness. In my defense, I did have a smiley there. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

So I'll just submit my humble opinion: I do not consider Formula Hybrid to be very competitive, and no I am not as impressed with A&M's 981 at FH as I am with Rennteam's 961 at FSAE-A. There just aren't many top teams competing in FH. That's not true about FSAE-A.

[coleasterling]

Originally posted by bob.paasch:
So I'll just submit my humble opinion: I do not consider Formula Hybrid to be very competitive, and no I am not as impressed with A&M's 981 at FH as I am with Rennteam's 961 at FSAE-A. There just aren't many top teams competing in FH. That's not true about FSAE-A.

You've hit the nail on the head...The main problem with FH is attracting top teams(aside from their immense organizational issues). What they really need is teams like GFR to take the plunge. Now, I guess motivation for doing so really depends on your goals...If it is education, then Hybrid is the logical progression from FSAE and FS-E, regardless of how competitive the event is.

It seems like most FSAE teams severely underestimate what it takes to build a hybrid...much less, a competitive one. See UTA, Kansas, and Lund for examples. Heck, Dartmouth has been trying to do it since they started the event.

That said, with your experience in FSAE and the electric car, I bet GFR could build an amazing hybrid. I know I would love to see it. Who knows...maybe you'd even do as well as A&M's 2009 team.

[bob.paasch]

Originally posted by coleasterling:
You've hit the nail on the head...The main problem with FH is attracting top teams(aside from their immense organizational issues). What they really need is teams like GFR to take the plunge. Now, I guess motivation for doing so really depends on your goals...If it is education, then Hybrid is the logical progression from FSAE and FS-E, regardless of how competitive the event is.

It seems like most FSAE teams severely underestimate what it takes to build a hybrid...much less, a competitive one. See UTA, Kansas, and Lund for examples. Heck, Dartmouth has been trying to do it since they started the event.

That said, with your experience in FSAE and the electric car, I bet GFR could build an amazing hybrid. I know I would love to see it. Who knows...maybe you'd even do as well as A&M's 2009 team.

I disagree. I think hybrid vehicles in general are a stop-gap solution. They have no market penetration whatsoever in Europe. I think full electric is the future of personal transportation.

GFR could probably build a competitive Formula Hybrid, if we dropped combustion and electric. So could Stuttgart, Delft, Graz, and the other top teams. But the top teams won't be developing a vehicle that can only go to one (US) competition.

I think that once FSAE-electric is established at Nebraska in 2013, Formula Hybrid's days are numbered.

IMHO. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[theTTshark]

Originally posted by coleasterling:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bob.paasch:
So I'll just submit my humble opinion: I do not consider Formula Hybrid to be very competitive, and no I am not as impressed with A&M's 981 at FH as I am with Rennteam's 961 at FSAE-A. There just aren't many top teams competing in FH. That's not true about FSAE-A.

You've hit the nail on the head...The main problem with FH is attracting top teams(aside from their immense organizational issues). What they really need is teams like GFR to take the plunge. Now, I guess motivation for doing so really depends on your goals...If it is education, then Hybrid is the logical progression from FSAE and FS-E, regardless of how competitive the event is.

It seems like most FSAE teams severely underestimate what it takes to build a hybrid...much less, a competitive one. See UTA, Kansas, and Lund for examples. Heck, Dartmouth has been trying to do it since they started the event.

That said, with your experience in FSAE and the electric car, I bet GFR could build an amazing hybrid. I know I would love to see it. Who knows...maybe you'd even do as well as A&M's 2009 team. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would say if anything electric is the logical progression from hybrid not the other way. I kind of laugh that Formula Hybrid calls full electric cars hybrids in progress, more like hybrids are electrics in progress.

Here's my thoughts on FH. It will never be as competitive as FSAE. Here's why: 1) The Formula Electric series will be coming to these shores soon. These cars are absolute bullets. They'll be lighter than an actual hybrid, and I've heard Stuttgart did a 3.8 0-75m accel time with there electric car, anyone know if this is true? 2) The smaller FSAE teams will never be able to have the budget for a hybrid. The money limit for the batteries is more than most teams' budgets. While electric cars have this same problem, you'll have the top tier teams with enough money to make the series competitive plus you don't have to worry about buying and maintaining an engine. 3) Poor timing. A lot of FSAE teams don't come to Michigan because it interferes with finals, well not only is FH about a week before that it's during the week! Talk about a poor time to hold it.

So by the time teams want to switch to a "new challenge" it's going to be electric they choose, not hybrid.

[rmk36]

This thread took quite the rabbit trail...

I hope it can find it's way back

[Rotary Sprocket]

TU Graz 2008
RMIT 2008
South Dakota Mines and Tech 2010
RIT 2011
UAS Graz 2011
Kansas 2010 and 2011, such a beautiful car

and I wish I could have seen the 2011 Oklahoma car.

[TMichaels]

They'll be lighter than an actual hybrid, and I've heard Stuttgart did a 3.8 0-75m accel time with there electric car, anyone know if this is true?
Stuttgart did a 3,894 at FSG/FSE2010 with their electric car, chipping a tenth of the fastest combustion car.
Anyhow the cars have improved a lot over last year and will definetely be even more competetive this year.

Back on the topic, my favourite FSAE cars are:
Helsinki 2006, the last turbo car of Helsinki
Graz 2006
Munich 2006
Braunschweig 2008

Regards,

Tobias

[Bemo]

I'm also sure that accelerations of electric FSAE-cars will get more impressive this year. Zwickau got 4-wheel-drive for example...

On the other hand - power is limited this year (a Stuttgart rule http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)

[TMichaels]

On the other hand - power is limited this year (a Stuttgart rule )

Yes, this is, at least partial, a Stuttgart rule. The cars dropped some weight and the control algorithms got more sophisticated, so I think they will still be able to improve, even with the power limitation.

Regards,

Tobias

[Bemo]

That last post wasn't ment too serious http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I'm also sure that the performance of the electric cars will still improve a lot. Our traction control was far from working perfect. And I know that Zwickau will have 4-wheel-drive...

[SR-Mike]

I doubt many who still read this forum will remember this one but my favourite FSAE car of all time must be the 2003 Chalmers Formula student car inspired by the awesome Lotus Type 38.

If I remember right it lacked a bit of roll stiffness and eventually set fire to itself during the endurance, but it looked good while doing it.

http://flic.kr/p/4aLWNt

[Bemo]

The very first car of Hawks racing, I think it was 2004. It never passed scrutineering, but the style is just awesome.

[bob.paasch]

Originally posted by Bemo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bob.paasch:
Rennteam F0711-3: I'm pretty sure this car had the highest score of all time, probably the best points scoring design ever under 50 point fuel scoring.
In Australia we had 961 points which is the all time record as far as we know. It wouldn't have made a difference if the 100 fuel points rule would already have been in charge - we won fuel there!
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, but...

Put the F0711-3 up against DUT10 under 50 point fuel scoring and I think dynamic points are about even.

Put the F0711-3 up against DUT10 under 100 point fuel scoring and I think DUT10 outscores the F0711-3 by 30 points in the dynamic events.

IMHO. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[rmk36]

Originally posted by bob.paasch:

Yes, but...

Put the F0711-3 up against DUT10 under 50 point fuel scoring and I think dynamic points are about even.

Put the F0711-3 up against DUT10 under 100 point fuel scoring and I think DUT10 outscores the F0711-3 by 30 points in the dynamic events.

IMHO. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


Points are points. The highest scoring car doesn't change if the point distribution changes.

IMHO

[Fantomas]

You should probably repeat Math I...

Fantomas

[MegaDeath]

Originally posted by rmk36:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bob.paasch:

Yes, but...

Put the F0711-3 up against DUT10 under 50 point fuel scoring and I think dynamic points are about even.

Put the F0711-3 up against DUT10 under 100 point fuel scoring and I think DUT10 outscores the F0711-3 by 30 points in the dynamic events.

IMHO. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


Points are points. The highest scoring car doesn't change if the point distribution changes.

IMHO </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sheesh Ryan, I couldn't even pass calc 1 and I know that you are wrong.

[rmk36]

My point wasn't that his math was wrong, my point was that amount of points any team earned in the past doesn't change when rules change down the road.

[Jon Oneill]

I'm a bit shocked a few of my personal favorites haven't even got a mention yet.

<LI> 2008 Hawks racing - H04
h t t p : / / www. hawksracing. de /cars/garage/bilder-garage/20090418-1847-jpg/image_preview

<LI> 2008 Rennstall Esslingen - Stallardo 08
h t t p : / / www. rennstall-esslingen . de/stallardo-08

<LI> Oklahoma 2010 - Sooner racing

<LI> 2007 UWA world champ car
h t t p : / / motorsport. mech. uwa. edu. /typo3temp/pics/04ca870f4b.jpg

<LI> 2011 Purdue - Awesome

<LI> 2006 Helsinki Polytechnic - Probably the prettiest & most purposeful looking fsae car of all time.
h t t p : / / www. metropolia-motorsport. fi/#

[Bemo]

Originally posted by bob.paasch:
Put the F0711-3 up against DUT10 under 50 point fuel scoring and I think dynamic points are about even.

Put the F0711-3 up against DUT10 under 100 point fuel scoring and I think DUT10 outscores the F0711-3 by 30 points in the dynamic events.
IMHO. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Well, comparing cars which never competed against each other are just guesses.
A fact is that the F0711-4 outscored the DUT09 in the dynamics in Silverstone and Hockenheim. Even if the DUT09 would have finished at Hockenheim we would have clearly been overall dynamics winner. Delft scored much better in the statics back than, so according to our calculation overall the difference overall would have been 2-3 points.
And in 09 the 100 fuel point scoring was already in charge.

[Thrainer]

I doubt that Stuttgart's 2010 car was actually slower than their 2008 car, but would assume the difference was the drivers. In 2010, I was really shocked that Delft was so much faster than e.g. Turin, Darmstadt and Munich and at the same time the most efficient car of the competition. (I hope that won't happen this season in the electric class http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ).

Regards
Thomas

[Bemo]

That's a point I'm really looking forward to. I'm extremely curios if the lower weight/lower power/higher efficiency concept will also work in the electric class.

[blister]

Helsinki 2006

[Pennyman]

Originally posted by blister:
Helsinki 2006

100%

I honestly think Helsinki is the only team that has a theme song.

http://www.fstotal.com/images/content/090408_Safety/FSAE_Safety_fire_Helsinki.jpg

Super8 & Tab - Helsinki Scorchin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlABK0K-i6Y)

[Mbirt]

Originally posted by JonJon:
<LI> 2008 Rennstall Esslingen - Stallardo 08
h t t p : / / www. rennstall-esslingen . de/stallardo-08

<LI> Oklahoma 2010 - Sooner racing

*gasp* A MAHLE car? But Mahle engines will dominate Formula SAE for the priveleged few teams that Mahle sponsors!

And have you seen Oklahoma's 2011 car? Still has the Aprilia, but ~335 lb on 10" wheels and has DRS.

[mech5496]

Well, my list...

UniStuttgart F0711-2B
Delft DUT06 and DUT 08
TU Braunshweig LR08
TU Graz TANKIA 06,07 and 08
Auckland M010
RMIT 2007 car
Oxford Brookes "allison" 2011 car
GFR cars, both 2010 and especially 2011
....and of course UniPatras UoP3Evo! :P

[Mbirt]

This thread might be a fun one to bring back from the dead.

Akron 2013 is extremely impressive for a first car with wings, 10's, and a single cylinder engine. That's a lot to take on at once!

[DannytheRadomski]

Akron's this year was great, but to go back a little, the Viking 30 from WWU can't be left out, and Auckland's M012 and M013 are both amazing. (I'm mostly judging on looks and what I can read as I have yet to attend an actual comp.)

[Claude Rouelle]

Instead of asking what is the best performance or best looking car one of the questions to ask is what is the best knowledgeable team... Which is the team who know the best what they are speaking about. As a design judge I will refrain to discuss this here but it would useful that the students express who they think the most knowledgeable team is AND WHY. There won't be a perfect answer but there could be a good list of criteria.

[BillCobb]

If you are thinking of FSAE as a bridge to employment in something other than the fast food industry, the best car and the best team won't matter anymore. It will be YOU sitting in front of someone who probably knows more about the job opportunity's requirements that your whole engineering department put together.

They won't be impressed at how well you copied another design unless they are from one specific country. And we should ALL know how well copies of things work...

[Z]

Instead of asking what is the best performance or best looking car one of the questions to ask is what is the best knowledgeable team... Which is the team who know the best what they are speaking about. As a design judge I will refrain to discuss this here but it would useful that the students express who they think the most knowledgeable team is AND WHY. There won't be a perfect answer but there could be a good list of criteria.
Claude,

IMO the team that was by far the "best knowledgeable" regarding the important Engineering Design features that an FSAE car should have was UWA-2012. They engineered a very simple, low-parts-count car with potentially fantastic Vehicle Dynamic and Aero Dynamic performance. Unfortunately, poor Project Management and a small team meant they didn't get the drivetrain finished in time for comp.

Nevertheless, that team had the best VD and AD knowledge of any team that I have seen in the last 10+ years.

But wait...! Didn't they only get 3 points out of 200 in Design!?

And weren't you one of the DJs, Claude?

Why?????

Z

[Claude Rouelle]

Maybe I should have explained this better. Best knowledgeable AND best abilities to explain and present your product. A good engineer without communication skills won't go very far. And yes that could also mean to learn how to introduce themselves and defend their innovation.... and make sure IN ADVANCE that their innovation is complying with the rules just, simply, by asking the rule committee ahead of time. A lot of trouble can then be avoided. I have seen a few teams out there who are so sure of themselves and their innovation that they expect to just be dazzling without trying to convince the judges and other students of the validity of their design. "We are convinced our car is legal, we are exceptional but we can't explain why and in fact we do not need to" is not the best way to gain approval in the paddock. If on top of that your car is not even finished, not only you do not prove anything but you also send a message that can be interpreted as "I don't care".
The world is full of genius who are not able to defend their ideas, do not know how to "sell" the relevance of their innovation and then play the victims when they do not find approval.

[JulianH]

It is quite difficult to judge the best of anything...

When it comes down to styling, the 2012 Hawks car and the 2011 TU Graz car are looking incredible!
When it comes down to performance, I still think that the GFR combustion car is the fastest out there, at least in Endurance (for sure the drivers aren't too bad).
When it comes down to dominating the competition, the 2008 Stuttgart C, the 2010 Stuttgart E, the 2010 and 2012 Delft and again the GFR combustion car have/had the abilities.
When it comes down to knowledge, I can't really point it out because I couldn't judge anyone but my team.. I am really proud of our 2013 team, they got their stuff together, I could gladly be a small part of four design victories in all four competitions this season, the new guys were really good. What I heard from some guys of other teams, Monash is still the best concerning Aero, hands down. Stuttgart C and Delft probably have the best team management, and GFR still is pretty good at VD. But, I think that in the end a lot of knowledge is tied to the persons, at least the high-end stuff, so sharing the knowledge with the new team is still key...


When I had to pick one car to drive, I probably would keep our 2013 car or go with the 2010 Delft car, to find out why Erik Schmidt can't stop worshipping it :)

[Mbirt]

I just wanted to get rolling again a lighthearted thread that gave credit where credit was due for cars that have impressed us. But since Claude asked, ETS Montreal has always impressed me as having the most well-rounded and consistent (year-to-year transfer of) knowledge. Their success in powertrain development certainly encouraged me to up our powertrain ante in 2012 and 2013.

Auburn 2013 was an extremely well-done non-aero car with a second-place autocross and overall finishes at Lincoln.

[Z]

Mbirt, Apologies for slight derail of thread, although UWA-12 was POTENTIALLY a very good car.
~~~o0o~~~


Maybe I should have explained this better. Best knowledgeable AND best abilities to explain and present your product. A good engineer without communication skills won't go very far. And yes that could also mean to learn how to introduce themselves and defend their innovation.... and make sure IN ADVANCE that their innovation is complying with the rules just, simply, by asking the rule committee ahead of time. A lot of trouble can then be avoided. I have seen a few teams out there who are so sure of themselves and their innovation that they expect to just be dazzling without trying to convince the judges and other students of the validity of their design. "We are convinced our car is legal, we are exceptional but we can't explain why and in fact we do not need to" is not the best way to gain approval in the paddock. If on top of that your car is not even finished, not only you do not prove anything but you also send a message that can be interpreted as "I don't care".
The world is full of genius who are not able to defend their ideas, do not know how to "sell" the relevance of their innovation and then play the victims when they do not find approval.

Claude,

Are you suggesting that FSAE is NOT about producing more knowledgeable Engineers, but rather it is about producing a lot of slick-talking Salesmen and Sycophants? (All of above highlighted skills belong in the Presentation event.)

Specifically, it seems you want to reward dimwits who can repeat parrot-fashion the BS they are taught in VD seminars (eg. see "Damper Rates" thread), but any students showing they have MORE knowledge than their "teachers" will get punished with low marks. Frankly, that is disgraceful!

I took one look at a picture of the UWA-12 undertray and thought "Here are students who have a better understanding of what is important to an FSAE car's performance than I ever thought possible". I certainly would NOT have suggested such a design to the general FSAE population, because it is a country mile ahead of the current standards (waaay beyond what I thought FSAEers could understand).

But the UWA students had to spend "several hours" trying to explain it to you.
Do you now understand how a "longitudinally interconnected suspension" works?
Do you teach it in your seminars?
Or are you the one who deserves the mark of 3/200?

And most importantly, if a team is again in your Design tent and they show they are "more knowledgeable" than you (perhaps because they have another type of advanced suspension that you do not understand), then will you again punish them with such an insultingly low score?

Is that your role as an "educator"???

Z

[MCoach]

Claude, Z, leave the knife fights for another thread. This one is designated as a simple 'get together thread'.
I like cars that bring innovation to the table, some that go to the extremes (even if it's without success)
I would have to say in this order:

The 1990 Cornell car is one of my favorite. The sucker car.
ETS 2012 - So refined, such attention to detail on every single part.
Monash 2013/Terps 2013/GFR 2013 - I have a special place for enormous winged behemoths.
USF Baja 2007 - THE winged baja car, can't miss that.
And Akron's car from this year was also a wonderfully fast sight.
2001 - Instituto Technologico de Chihuahua - very swoopy, pretty production looking for 2001.


There aren't too many 'old school' cars that I bring up because I don't really fall for the classics, or the muscle cars (Viking 30), but am always impressed by the new material brought to the game every year. With FSAE it's almost every car topping their last.

[Jay Lawrence]

Z, assuming Claude is solely responsible for UWA's low score (I doubt it) you can view it thus: he is basing his judgement on a large amount of theoretical knowledge backed up by practical implementation in a racing environment. You are basing your views almost solely on the theory, in effect just acting the keyboard warrior. IMO (and, possibly, in that of design judges on the day), the design event should showcase a working car that best brings to life the theory behind it (otherwise the design event should just be conducted via a computer). As UWA's car was very incomplete, I don't see why it should have gotten great marks, despite the amazing work behind it.

Anyway, I really liked our 2007 car, Jim. He had some bad luck at comp but was a very fast and solid car, being used successfully for some pretty brutal testing (especially engine - turbo) for a few years after comp. I liked Monash's 2009 car because it was so simple (really quite ordinary looking (apart from the wings) with spool, direct acting shocks, manual shifting, etc) whilst being very very fast. I really liked Auckland's single when they first used it (2008 I think) because it was such a small and sexy car. I also liked Deakin's sidewinder because it was different.

[Fil]

This has an Australian flavour to it

Auckland 2005 - Bat shit crazy car that brent and the boys built! only car I can remember that failed noise because they were around the 125dB mark!! put the exhaust outlets in the diffuser, it definitely wont act like a trumpet!!
Deakin 2006 - Great concept, was super fast through slaloms, great group of guys too! First use of carbon wheels in Aus too, which they have now developed into production wheel
RMIT 2003 - Have only seen videos of this in action and heard a lot about it from Big Bird but really started the revolution, simple, single and FAST!
Stuttgart 2006 - Best first year car in a long time, Wordley and I were adamant this team would dominate comps in the future based on that years car
UQ - 2005 - FAST!! frank, tania and the team built a rocket ship that was so simple but so well put together. Blew everyone away at FSG06, statics are for suckers.

[Tom Wettenhall]

Four cars I consider the best of the 'old-school' Australian cars: (the originals being the original Rothmans Williams - liveried Woolongong cars) Monash 2010, Swinburne 2010, UWA 2010/11 and the UoM 2012 car. (slight bias) Loud, completely unsubtle, heaps of fun and I think, one of the most rewarding concepts to make fast due to its inherent intractability. That type of car seems to like either being massively understeery or displaying a lovely combination of front locking, rear locking, mid-corner understeer and snap oversteer, all in the same corner. Those four are the ones I think sit best somewhere in the middle, at the happy junction of throttle steering, shuttle-launch acceleration and really, really fast tyre wear.

That said, UoM '11 I believe still holds the all-time FSAE tyre wear record - one set of D2704's from green to canvas in two days.

Auckland 2012 doesn't fit in this category, but it's still awesome.

[BeunMan]

It is quite difficult to judge the best of anything...
... or go with the 2010 Delft car, to find out why Erik Schmidt can't stop worshipping it :)

Unfortunately the engine broke down and is (at the moment) beyond repair. It was designed for 2000 km and it did that, and then stopped ... I think Schmidt's affection is with stroopwafels and petrol engines and that car was the last one with one from Delft.

Favorite with me is 'What would I really like to drive':
I would like to drive one of the Monash cars just to know what it's all about with those wings. Or the 2009 Stuttgart car, as it dominated everything. Or the 2009 Graz car with rear wheel steering enabled.

Unfortunately i'm beyond the 95p spec tall so won't drive any fsae car soon...

[Tom Wettenhall]

One of our guys drove the 2011 Monash machine at Haunted Hills at the driver swap and had quite a reaction. So do I swear, he was dead silent for about four hours afterward, then he wouldn't stop talking about wings for a month.
It was apparently contagious, as about half a dozen people picked up the same obsession and we ended up having to fit some wings (Thanks Monash) to our car and drive it around a bit to cure them all.

Conclusion: Wings = Infinite Improbability Drive. It makes some strange noises, everyone turns in to balls of wool or flowerpots and then throws up and you go quite a long way in a short time. Then it all kind of peters out, a rather relaxing voice says 'We have normality', and you can't help but think, whatever that means...

[jlangholzj]

Unfortunately i'm beyond the 95p spec tall so won't drive any fsae car soon...

I'm a largish individual myself.....about 6'5" (~196 cm for you folk that live in the right world) and 230lbs (~104kg). When I get in our '13 car my knees about poke through the nose cone and there's not a whole lot of room left for the imagination. Somehow I do fit though!! One of our other drivers can effectively lock his knees out while still touching the pedals.

One thing that nobody has mentioned is that they like their own cars dangit! I mean...after all if you didn't think that it was the best out there, why even bother bringing it to comp?! Although after a few issues with ours this last year at comp I was about ready to push it off a cliff.....Its entertaining how Matt's book stays true through the years.

[Francis Gagné]

One of our guys drove the 2011 Monash machine at Haunted Hills at the driver swap and had quite a reaction. So do I swear, he was dead silent for about four hours afterward, then he wouldn't stop talking about wings for a month.

It was apparently contagious, as about half a dozen people picked up the same obsession and we ended up having to fit some wings (Thanks Monash) to our car and drive it around a bit to cure them all.<br>


Conclusion: Wings = Infinite Improbability Drive. It makes some strange noises, everyone turns in to balls of wool or flowerpots and then throws up and you go quite a long way in a short time. Then it all kind of peters out, a rather relaxing voice says 'We have normality', and you can't help but think, whatever that means...

So we should nickname the Monash cars Heart of Gold? Anyway unfortunately, too much cars seems to be powered by a Bistromathics drive...

Let's cut back to the chase

Good looking : HAWKS Racing (Any really)
Non-traditional concept : Berkeley 2013
Clean, attention to details (and seems to be very fun & responsive to drive) : ÉTS
EV : AMZ 2013

[Mbirt]

One thing that nobody has mentioned is that they like their own cars dangit! I mean...after all if you didn't think that it was the best out there, why even bother bringing it to comp?!I think it's because we're all too humble. But I'm going to give it a try...

Kettering 2013. 400 lb single-cylinder car on 13's with all-aluminum bodywork, yet possibly the most awarded car in the Western Hemisphere in 2013. We took a risk developing our own engine control code in-house, spent a decent amount of time simulating and on the chassis dyno, and it paid off with fuel efficiency wins at each competition we entered despite only having 83-91% of the pace of the endurance winner under the new fuel scoring. Winning other powertrain and cost-related awards made it an even bigger success. A jump from 256th in the world to 38th in one season shows that simply finishing a car on time for testing, solid static event scores, and a well-developed powertrain can take you a long way. Nothing on the car is exotic or expensive, we just worked harder and smarter this year.

And I passed a not-so-bad winged 4-cylinder car twice during endurance at Lincoln, motivating the announcer to bring up the wings vs. no wings topic. A single vs. 4 cylinders mention would have put it over the top. This makes it my favorite FSAE car.

[Paul Achard]

I'll throw my vote in for Akron. They completely renewed their concept in one year (4cyl to single, added wings, 13s to 10s, composite side-impact chassis...) and dominated in every comp they went to.
I would also say they have the best team cohesion of all those I saw in our 5 competitions this year.
You need a special mix of people is youre going to cram them in a few vans and drive them from germany to finland and back (wearing 'Murica daisy dukes & wife beaters).

[jlangholzj]

....I think it's because we're all too humble....


I didn't know that you were telling jokes this early in the day.... :)

I'm excited to see what my boys are going to make this year. Last year gave us a good footing for a new team and they're going to take off and run with it. Our Aero guy has been really researching his stuff and we should get some great benefits this year. If they can figure out a way to package all the additional crap like overflow bottles and make it a little cleaner then I'll really be sold. One thing I've always liked about ours is that it's usually a pretty tidy car. We need to get a better nose on it IMO.....make it look a little more elegant.

as far as other cars:

this year at lincoln I really liked Oregon Tech's car. Seemed like a very well built car especially for a team running first year aero.
Also, truthfully....pick out almost any UTA car in the last 4-5 years and I'll take it home.