Design Event philosophy

[Big Bird]

Greetings all. A quick question regarding approach to the design event. I've had a scout through the forums and I don't think this angle has been convered.

We are getting ready to take our 2003 FSAE-A car to the FStudent comp. Generally it is a pretty decent little car, some bits are good and some bits we wouldn't do again. Given limited budget and human resources, some of the things we would like to change are too big a job to change before the event. (Anyway, we have to consider using our human resources to design and build the FSAE-A 2004 car).

My question is, when we approach the design event and the review, do we openly admit our flaws or do we do the salesman's angle and gloss over them? (And hope we are not asked....) As an educational event I would think that recognizing our flaws is worthy, as it shows that we have learnt from our mistakes.

We have spoken to some welll known pro race engineers of late, and they are just as impressed that we can point out where we went wrong as much as what we got right. Although on the flipside I think I was a little too candid at the FSAE-A event last year, and got penalized for it.

So the question is, are we judged on what we know, or on what is sitting there in steel and plastic? I'd especially be interested in feedeback from the Euro teams, as it would be nice to know how the judges view things on that side of the world.

Cheers all,

[Charlie]

FSAE-A was a lot different that the US competition for our team in the design event. In Detroit we've always prepared a 5-minute talk about our section and then we answer questions. Usually the questions start before we are done with our prepared talk. In Australia we didn't get many questions, hardly any at all. It seemed like the judges just wanted us to keep talking and never seemed too interested in asking us to elaborate. From watching the Aussie teams work it looked like they were prepared to talk a lot more. It seemed a bit more formal, and the judges were more of an audience than involved with the teamers in a discussion. As a result I think we looked a bit underprepared because after a bit we were starting to wing it a bit more and look for more areas to elaborate on.

In Detroit at least, we've had best success with a decent amount of preparation, good explanations of our design decisions, and just being honest.

[Denny Trimble]

Yeah, I can't speak for the AUS or F-Student events, but in Detroit, a 5-minute presentation followed by discussion is pretty normal. Highlight what you're proud of, then take cover. Claude's got 140 "evil" questions; he only asked us 8 or 9 last year, and we were batting about .200.

[Big Bird]

I've heard some of Claudes 140 evil questions. Like what is the modulus of elasticity of your brake pad material. Good grief. He was going to post them somewhere at one stage, did he ever get around to doing that? Where can you find them?

Cheers,

[Denny Trimble]

He mentioned he was thinking of publishing them, but he apparently hasn't yet.

Hang around the design tent at 8AM and I'm sure you'll catch a few http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[PatClarke]

Hi, I can speak as a Design Judge here, rather than as the Aussie Tech Advisor.
Firstly, I too was very disappointed with the Design Judging at FSAEA, and actually got some flack for saying so!
The overseas judging will be very different.
Biggest mistake you can make is to try 'snow' the judges.
In my case, I can usually see what you have tried to achieve, so I am really more interested in WHY you made the design decisions you have.
I prefer that the team talk candidly about their car, and often it is beneficial to discuss what didn't work out rather than what did. This is the design phase remember, and you have to defend your design.
I think its fair to have a 5 minute presentation, and then have the specialists discuss with the judges their area of expertise. Don't overwhelm the judges with numbers.
I don't believe in 'evil' questions. I am not interested in the irrelevant detail like the contribution to your torsional stiffness offered by different thicknesses of powdercoat. That's all crap. I want to know that you understand where you are with this prototype car and that means you must understand what is bad with it as well as good. Sure, a poor car is not going to score well, regardless of how well the team members understand it, but neither will a good car if the team members don't understand it.
What you take to an FSAE event is what you have got. When engineers brief engineers (The design comp)then truth and candidness always works best. Let your team spin doctors do their nastiest at the presentation event! Thats where the BS belongs!

I might catch up in a couple of weeks in Melbourne
PDR

[Denny Trimble]

So if we tell you we used 1mm thick powder coating because it gave us 73% critical damping on the torsion mode of the frame, you won't buy it? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[PatClarke]

Only if you can convince me Denny http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Hint..Old, unmarked and in a brown paper bag http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

PDR

[Charlie]

Pat-

That formula usually reduces my torsional rigidity a good deal http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[PatClarke]

Charlie, I think you mean "New, Unbranded and in a Brown Paper Bag" http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
PDR

[PatClarke]

Well,
I have now read all the Design Reviews, and am pleased to report there is a big improvement in style and content by most teams.
There are still a number of teams who don't understand that the Design Brief is the document that makes the Design Judges enthusiastic about your design. That is a real waste of an opportunity.
PDR

[polimi]

Hi, Suddenlee.
I'm Alberto, a team member of the Dynamis PRC of Politecnico di Milano (Italy). What is the Design Brief? What do you write in?
Thanks

[PatClarke]

Hi Polimi,
If you read the rules, you will see that before the event you have to submit a Design Review so the judges can assess your design somewhat before they see it.
You also have to fill in a two page Excell spreadsheet with technical specifications.
PDR

[polimi]

Thanks Suddenlee, it's the Design Report!!!!
I was afraid to write another document. Could you help us sending me some photos of posters or stands? Thanks a lot.
Alberto
Dynamis PRC Team

fsae.polimi@virgilio.it