Sensorless Traction Control System

[magicweed]

I was looking around google today, researching traction control schematics, and I came upon an oddity. A company makes a sensorless traction control system that piggybacks an MSD ignition box. After seeing this, I wondered to myself, why hasnt anyone else done this. I've got some ideas on how to do it myself, using the tach output on our PE ECU, but I was wondering if anyone else was developing/had heard of/had done this before.

Heres the link:
http://moretraction.com/

[Jarrod]

These have been around for a couple of years in speedway, with one key feature being

The TM-9000-SL is the most advanced traction control system we have ever offered. It is the smallest traction control system available in the world today. Approximately the size of a disposable lighter, it is very easy to keep your advantage a secret and remove from the car after competition

and with traction control being illegal in most series, it was a handy little object. The driver could simply unplug the unit and put it in his pocket and then play dumb when asked why the car was misfirng off the turns, and setting lap records. A lot of series made it illegal to have any wiring inside the cockpit, then they developed the unit that fits in your MSD box, so they had to start inspedcting them as well. The testing done on speedway all suggested they work very well, I am not sure how they would cope with the already high acceleration rates we run normally, and they also compared it to a wheel speed based system which only has a samll number of teeth at the wheels, where it is possible to run much higher resolution. They are not particularly cheap either.

[magicweed]

Well, thats the rub isn't it. Can someone make a device like this that functions efficiently on an FSAE car? It would be a whole lot simpler to implement than the wheel sensor system, and would look a lot better on a cost report than 4 trigger wheels and 4 gt101 sensors. We all know that those are the high cost items in the traction control system, even though most can make their own trigger wheels. The simplicity and high resolution are worth enough to get me looking into them, but I may be alone in that respect.

[PedalOnTheRight]

Sounds like a great idea. I'd think that the marketing minds of PE or Motec would love to offer such a system to FSAE teams, I'm sure they'd get some business out of it. I wonder what the judges would think of a system whose makers claim to fame is that it's easy to cheat with it, lol. I know Claude wouldn't mind.

[Dan G]

Zzzzz, boring. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

This is an existing feature of Megasquirt'nSpark-Extra code for MS...

http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/antirev.html

MSnS-E has a bunch of pretty nifty features. Added cost to enable them is $0. Check it out...

http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/

[magicweed]

Well, I guess I'm going to be putting a megasquirt on my Twin Turbo '67 Chevelle I'm building. That thing will need all the help it can get. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Dan G]

Yup, I'm MSnS-E'ing my ~400rwhp Porsche this winter. I'm expecting the rev-control will come in quite handy.

[PedalOnTheRight]

My Pagani Owns

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

thats really cool, but what happens when you rev the engine out of gear or with the clutch engaged? I assume you have to turn it on/off with the Megatune, not with a button on the dash?

[magicweed]

When I suggested the idea in my team meeting yesterday, someone said the same thing. They also wondered how well it would work in the different gears, and what kind of compensation I could put in for different conditions. Adjustability and an easy ON/OFF switch were also requests.

And I'd rather build myself a Factory Five GTM than buy a Zonda.

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

who else is running megasquirt, looks like where finally ditching the 10 year old Haltech e6k this year.....

[Dan G]

Good points. I had thought of that issue before, but didn't really tear into it. Can't really use this feature with a CVT... with the right tuning it will act as mechanical traction control!

The only problem with holding neutral revving to the same rpm/s rate as 1st gear would be in heel/toe downshifting. Other than that, you shouldn't really need any lightning fast rpm/s rates. The anti-rev feature obviously only work in the increasing rpm direction, so its not like it would slow your upshifts.

I regards to adjustable rpm/s rates for each gear (or at least the first 2-3), it looks like that isn't supported yet. I imagine this would probably become possible once the MSII w/ CAN bus programming reaches/eclipses the MSI w/ MSnS-E firmware. You could do this either by a electro-mechanical gear position sensor, or maybe even work out an algorithm that tries to determine discontinous loading, but at that point, you're probably much better off just going with wheel speed sensors.

I started a thread asking for more info over on msefi.com about these questions:
http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=13062

Mike, to my knowledge UM-D is the only FSAE team planning to run a MS this year. I could be wrong though. Carnegie Mellon is the only team that has used one at competition (again, as far as I know) when, suprise suprise, I was the engine guy there in 2003.

And my 2.7L 951 will whoop a Zonda and a FFR GTM-200 with its eyes closed. I'll give rides to non-believers in May. Ok maybe not whoop, but at least trail behind close enough to still see their brake lights glow!

http://evilallianceracing.com/ipw-web/gallery/albums/eVil951/IMG_2346.thumb.jpg (http://951forums.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=283)