2011 SCCA Nationals

[nick roberts]

Just a heads up to any team planning on participating this year. The late fee goes into effect after 4PM on July 29th. After that the entry fee doubles.

[nick roberts]

Just a heads up to any team planning on participating this year. The late fee goes into effect after 4PM on July 29th. After that the entry fee doubles.

[RANeff]

Were all signed up, unfortunately with only one car. The others are non-running once again.

Who is all attending? Who's aero/non-aero?

[Steve_Chung]

We'll be there with as many wings as we can fit in our trailer.

--
Stephen C.
University of Maryland
Aerodynamics Lead and Slave

[theTTshark]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Steve_Chung:
We'll be there with as many wings as we can fit in our trailer.

--
Stephen C.
University of Maryland
Aerodynamics Lead and Slave </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Nice!

[HuskerMotorSports]

We will be out there, but with no car yet. We'll be with the UMD team to shadow them.

[Lexusteck]

Good luck in Lincoln everybody. Looks like a big crowd.

[Mike Cook]

Live audio and Live timing. From What I hear, we are in the 5th heat.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/SCCASolo
http://sololive.scca.com

[Mbirt]

Maryland FTD'd by .262 seconds! Great job guys! Be proud of this accomplishment. FSAE courses will become evermore illegal and fuel economy points will increase, but take pride in knowing that you have built what is truly the fastest autocross vehicle out there.

[RANeff]

Marylands car (and Mike Stanley) are crazy fast! Its too bad A-Mod was in the rain tuesday or we could have seen how close overall they had been!

[RANeff]

P.S. Mike Stanly took 1st in the overall PAX, never thought Id see the day an FSAE car took top pax!

[Mike Cook]

The videos are up on our website:
http://www.facebook.com/groups/367734799701/

Kinda boring. Guess we need more power.

[Mbirt]

Wouldn't that be awesome ammunition for the marketing presentation? "Racers naturally buy the most competitive vehicle for a given racing class. For ST, it is the 1989-91 Honda Civic. For AM and FSAE, it is the TR11--THE fastest autocross vehicle in SCCA Solo Autocross."

Has an FSAE car taken top PAX at Nationals before?

[RANeff]

That is just nutty. Looks like a video game

[mech5496]

youtube /watch?v=eh0_yLemBmk&feature=related

WTF guys?! T-shirt and short pants?! (besides that the car seems like kicking ass....)

[Michael Royce]

Harry,
Yes, SCCA Rules do allow drivers including those in A Mod, B Mod, and FSAE to drive in tee shirts and shorts!! However, the FSAE Rules Committee does their best to have rules that make sure that you young fellows and gals return to your mothers and fathers the way they sent you away to college. Any motor sport can be dangerous, and while one expects the FSAE cars at the SCCA Nationals to be the best of the bunch and all well developed, the Rules Committee tries to construct the FSAE Rules to take care of those cars that are not quite so well developed. Even so, some of the "better" cars do have problems, e.g. at FSAE Italy this year.

That being said, while I am comfortable with just a helmet as my safety gear when I run an autocross/solo, (I drive a D Stock 2005 Copper "S"), I would strongly recommend that all the FSAE drivers wear the full FSAE safety gear, i.e suits, helmets, gloves, socks, shoes, balaclava, at ALL events, including testing. I know it is hot at Lincoln, but the 125 Shifter Kart drivers do wear the full gear, so there is no excuse for FSAE! And we all believe that FSAE and Formula Student is the greatest student competition in the world, so the last thing we need is someone not being sensible and resulting in our safety record being damaged.

We have heard through the grapevine of incidents at "testing", but as far as I know, no driver has been seriously hurt at an official FSAE or FS competition. Please, let's keep it that way. Use your common sense and take ALL the safety precautions when testing. Be careful where you test, have fire extinguishers on hand, drivers wear the full safety gear, etc.

Be safe, and congratulations to Mike Stanley on FTD at Lincoln.

Mbirt, I don't think the FSAE course rules will need to change, BUT if some FSAE cars start pulling even higher lateral "g's", the 2011 (relaxed) aero rules might have to be revisited for safety reasons, just as F1 keeps reducing the size of wings, etc., to keep cornering speeds down and spin off room reasonable. The courses at Nationals are a another matter. They are what they are.

[theTTshark]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Michael Royce:
Mbirt, I don't think the FSAE course rules will need to change, BUT if some FSAE cars start pulling even higher lateral "g's", the 2011 (relaxed) aero rules might have to be revisited for safety reasons, just as F1 keeps reducing the size of wings, etc., to keep cornering speeds down and spin off room reasonable. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hope that we are able to stay at speeds we are at. Being able to challenge the mod cars for FTDs is a huge boost to everybody in FSAE because then we can actually lay claim to having the best autocross vehicles money could potentially buy. The guys that go to Nationals do a lot to boost FSAE as a whole for our reputation among our "potential" consumers.

Also, creating safety by reducing wing size seems silly. We are not dealing with the levels of downforce production nor the mechanical grip compromises F1 designers make. They continuing to reduce wing size 1) "for the show" 2) so that the cars are less sensitive to downforce reduction. When we lose downforce we still have so much mechanical grip we slow down immediately. We don't take to the air nor lose all grip. Smaller wings will just mean one thing for FSAE slower cornering speeds for just the few teams that use huge wings. Otherwise top speeds will not be reduced by any wing reduction regulations.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The courses at Nationals are a another matter. They are what they are. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Amazing. Awesome. Wonderful.

[theTTshark]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by theTTshark:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Michael Royce:
Mbirt, I don't think the FSAE course rules will need to change, BUT if some FSAE cars start pulling even higher lateral "g's", the 2011 (relaxed) aero rules might have to be revisited for safety reasons, just as F1 keeps reducing the size of wings, etc., to keep cornering speeds down and spin off room reasonable. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hope that we are able to stay at speeds we are at. Being able to challenge the mod cars for FTDs is a huge boost to everybody in FSAE because then we can actually lay claim to having the best autocross vehicles money could potentially buy. The guys that go to Nationals do a lot to boost FSAE as a whole for our reputation among our "potential" consumers.

Also, creating safety by reducing wing size seems silly. We are not dealing with the levels of downforce production nor the mechanical grip compromises F1 designers make. They continuing to reduce wing size 1) "for the show" 2) so that the cars are less sensitive to downforce reduction. When we lose downforce we still have enough mechanical grip that we are able to slow down immediately. We don't take to the air nor lose all grip. Smaller wings will just mean one thing for FSAE slower cornering speeds for just the few teams that use huge wings. Otherwise top speeds will not be reduced by any wing reduction regulations, and who's to say that faster straight line speeds are safer than faster cornering speeds. Also I guess the biggest question is, how many Gs do you declare too many?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The courses at Nationals are a another matter. They are what they are. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Amazing. Awesome. Wonderful. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[nick roberts]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Michael Royce:
Harry,
Yes, SCCA Rules do allow drivers including those in A Mod, B Mod, and FSAE to drive in tee shirts and shorts!! However, the FSAE Rules Committee does their best to have rules that make sure that you young fellows and gals return to your mothers and fathers the way they sent you away to college. Any motor sport can be dangerous, and while one expects the FSAE cars at the SCCA Nationals to be the best of the bunch and all well developed, the Rules Committee tries to construct the FSAE Rules to take care of those cars that are not quite so well developed. Even so, some of the "better" cars do have problems, e.g. at FSAE Italy this year.

That being said, while I am comfortable with just a helmet as my safety gear when I run an autocross/solo, (I drive a D Stock 2005 Copper "S"), I would strongly recommend that all the FSAE drivers wear the full FSAE safety gear, i.e suits, helmets, gloves, socks, shoes, balaclava, at ALL events, including testing. I know it is hot at Lincoln, but the 125 Shifter Kart drivers do wear the full gear, so there is no excuse for FSAE! And we all believe that FSAE and Formula Student is the greatest student competition in the world, so the last thing we need is someone not being sensible and resulting in our safety record being damaged.

We have heard through the grapevine of incidents at "testing", but as far as I know, no driver has been seriously hurt at an official FSAE or FS competition. Please, let's keep it that way. Use your common sense and take ALL the safety precautions when testing. Be careful where you test, have fire extinguishers on hand, drivers wear the full safety gear, etc.

Be safe, and congratulations to Mike Stanley on FTD at Lincoln.

Mbirt, I don't think the FSAE course rules will need to change, BUT if some FSAE cars start pulling even higher lateral "g's", the 2011 (relaxed) aero rules might have to be revisited for safety reasons, just as F1 keeps reducing the size of wings, etc., to keep cornering speeds down and spin off room reasonable. The courses at Nationals are a another matter. They are what they are. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ive always wondered why SAE doesn't require on-board fire suppression systems. Has that ever been proposed? SCCA requires it in all road race vehicles except Stock, Touring, and Spec Miata. It probably makes more sense in a road race environment where workers aren't always immediately present as in autocross, but it still seems like a good feature to include in a prototype vehicle.

-nick

[Mbirt]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Michael Royce:
Mbirt, I don't think the FSAE course rules will need to change, BUT if some FSAE cars start pulling even higher lateral "g's", the 2011 (relaxed) aero rules might have to be revisited for safety reasons, just as F1 keeps reducing the size of wings, etc., to keep cornering speeds down and spin off room reasonable. The courses at Nationals are a another matter. They are what they are. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Being from a team with a lightweight, single-powered car, I'm not complaining at all about where things are right now. Current FSAE courses do a fine job of limiting the effectiveness of aerodynamics. 2011 SCCA Solo Rule 2.3.B states, "The course shall be at least 15 feet wide and single-?le slalom mark-
ers shall be at least 45 feet apart." 2012 FSAE D7.2.1 sets a minimum course width of 11.5 feet and minimum slalom spacing of 25 feet.

Even though I feel the featherweight design concept has the potential for earning more points at an FSAE competition, Maryland has hit a home run in satisfying FSAE A1.2: "For the purpose of the Formula SAE competition, teams are to assume that they work for a design
firm that is designing, fabricating, testing and demonstrating a prototype vehicle for the non-professional, weekend, competition market." Racers buy the fastest vehicle legal for the class. That's what Maryland has built and I think that's awesome.

[Mike Cook]

Thanks for all the praise, guys. As far as I know, since the inception of the FSAE class within SCCA, UTA won all of national events up until last year. We had attended nationals off and on since 2005 and it was a personal goal of mine to win after getting my butt kicked in 2008. I was very fortunate that UMD had some gifted aerodynamicists that made our cars good enough to win. It goes to show that if you set your mind to something and work really hard, you can usually achieve it.

Unfortunately, the TR11 is the last of a dying breed, as were moving to a single just like everyone else. Low hp, and a crappy exhaust sound. Yay. At least we will keep the TR11 around to bring to nationals.

[Mbirt]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mike Cook:
Unfortunately, the TR11 is the last of a dying breed, as were moving to a single just like everyone else. Low hp, and a crappy exhaust sound. Yay. At least we will keep the TR11 around to bring to nationals. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>BOO!!! I was hoping you guys would go to/stick with the Phazer 500 to keep the power up and keep building cars like the TR11. We'll see how the monster wing/thumper design works for Monash here soon...

[Steve_Chung]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mbirt:
BOO!!! I was hoping you guys would go to/stick with the Phazer 500 to keep the power up and keep building cars like the TR11. We'll see how the monster wing/thumper design works for Monash here soon... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah - it sucks. No worries though; we are still crazy about aero.

-Steve
University of Maryland
Aerodynamics Lead and Waterboy