Engine Choice [Archive] - FSAE.com Forums

Wesley

10-03-2006, 01:48 PM

I would imagine the "best engine" would depend on what your team has used in the past. The more research and testing you have into a particular combo, the better you can do with it generally.

Just the variation of cars on the field proves any one engine can compete with another (within limits) on a fairly equal level. What engine suits your chassis design may differ, but at the FSAE level, with sufficient research they will all be making very close to the same power levels anyway.

At least it seems that way to me.

But I will throw in another vote for the F4i. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JagLite

10-05-2006, 06:00 PM

Yamaha Phazer snowmobile engine and CV drive. Yes, it is not the maximum displacement allowed, however even stock it has many other positive features. A much more torque friendly tune, fuel injection, no gears for the multiple drivers to mess up with, very light and small, only two cylinders to make pipes for, etc. For your first car, or even for looking at future cars, it is a great basis.

As far as I am aware no one has used it yet. There are some teams using the single cylinder MX bike motors which have good torque and light weight but I do believe the twin will whip 'em.

Check it out and be the first! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

VimxTech

10-06-2006, 07:14 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JagLite:
Yamaha Phazer snowmobile engine and CV drive. Yes, it is not the maximum displacement allowed, however even stock it has many other positive features. A much more torque friendly tune, fuel injection, no gears for the multiple drivers to mess up with, very light and small, only two cylinders to make pipes for, etc. For your first car, or even for looking at future cars, it is a great basis.

As far as I am aware no one has used it yet. There are some teams using the single cylinder MX bike motors which have good torque and light weight but I do believe the twin will whip 'em.

Check it out and be the first! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In this vane, I'd look to the Rotax 593 HO design. I know that its been used in the Formula 500 class (Australia) with great success. Its also used in quite a number of Skidoo/Seadoo designs. Great torque and power. Worth looking into in my opinion.

Kenny T Cornett

10-06-2006, 07:21 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VimxTech:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JagLite:
Yamaha Phazer snowmobile engine and CV drive. Yes, it is not the maximum displacement allowed, however even stock it has many other positive features. A much more torque friendly tune, fuel injection, no gears for the multiple drivers to mess up with, very light and small, only two cylinders to make pipes for, etc. For your first car, or even for looking at future cars, it is a great basis.

As far as I am aware no one has used it yet. There are some teams using the single cylinder MX bike motors which have good torque and light weight but I do believe the twin will whip 'em.

Check it out and be the first! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In this vane, I'd look to the Rotax 593 HO design. I know that its been used in the Formula 500 class (Australia) with great success. Its also used in quite a number of Skidoo/Seadoo designs. Great torque and power. Worth looking into in my opinion. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Too bad that's a 2 stroke http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Mechanicaldan

10-06-2006, 10:18 AM

OK, I'll bite. I think that the best engine for an FSAE car is the Aprilia SXV 550 engine. Why?

Positives:
Roughly half the weight of an inline 4.
Only down rougly 25% on HP of an inline 4.
Dry sumped!!
Electric start
2 cylinders leads to lighter intake and exhaust system.
VERY compact and easy to package.
5 speeds - less weight
12:1 compression
available immediately

Negatives:
Cost - rougly $3000

Yes, that's 3 times as much as an E-bay inline 4.

The real question is, "how much would you be willing to pay to easily take off 50+ lbs of your car, and potentially not make it any slower?"

How important is weight to performance? A=F/M That's the real question the single cylinder engined cars are starting to ask.

For lots more info on this engine:
http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/412600868/m/19210732631

VimxTech

10-06-2006, 11:29 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kenny T Cornett:

Too bad that's a 2 stroke http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Damn those pesky rules!

Nima

10-07-2006, 02:44 AM

I think your question don't have a unique answer. The best engine for the fsae car depends on many parameters: the car weight, your acceleration-speed design, ability of supplying the engine and its components, its price and...
I compare a lot of engines and now prefer to use Honda CBR600 F4i 2001 or Yamaha FRZ 600. because of their performance in acceleration, ability to buy and common use in fsae cars.

JagLite

10-10-2006, 02:16 PM

Just to clarify, I am talking about the new Phazer that has the 4 stroke motor, not the OLD Phazer that used a 2 stroke...

The Aprilla motor looks to be a winner too. But I think the CVT would be a big advantage over the gearbox of the motorcycle engines. In real world FSAE usage that is.

Contact the savlage auction online people and request a wrecked Phazer, complete. New ones are usually insured and when rolled down a mountain side they get totalled easily. That way you get all the electronics, wiring, and perhaps a few parts to sell on eBay to recover some of the cost.

For that matter you could do the same for a motorcycle. Perhaps someone will wreck an Aprilla 550 soon?

We have picked up 3 complete bikes this way so we have two spare engines as well as a pile of parts to list on eBay. Unfortunately, the choice is limited to what is available each week or month... So far no Phazer has been available.

brent_e

10-12-2006, 05:42 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JagLite:
Just to clarify, I am talking about the new Phazer that has the 4 stroke motor, not the OLD Phazer that used a 2 stroke...

The Aprilla motor looks to be a winner too. But I think the CVT would be a big advantage over the gearbox of the motorcycle engines. In real world FSAE usage that is.

Contact the savlage auction online people and request a wrecked Phazer, complete. New ones are usually insured and when rolled down a mountain side they get totalled easily. That way you get all the electronics, wiring, and perhaps a few parts to sell on eBay to recover some of the cost.

For that matter you could do the same for a motorcycle. Perhaps someone will wreck an Aprilla 550 soon?

We have picked up 3 complete bikes this way so we have two spare engines as well as a pile of parts to list on eBay. Unfortunately, the choice is limited to what is available each week or month... So far no Phazer has been available. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Jaglite,
did you go to the comp in Romeo in 06? I'm just wondering if you saw the CVT cars there?

Brent

Welfares

10-13-2006, 12:35 AM

I think wesley had it right, it all depends on your design philosophy, you could make almost anything work.

600cc, R6, CBR, more power, your drivtrain and chassis needs to be able to withstand it, suspension needs to be stronger to cope with the increased mass of the rest of the car.

Trail bike, KTM 520etc, Less power, but everything above can be lighter.

You just have to compromise and go for what you think is the most balanced solution.

That aprillia engine looks pretty balanced.

We use an R6

Malkovich

04-28-2007, 08:02 PM

Hi,

I don't know a lot about the Aprilia engine but for the Honda CBR600, I thing this engine is way too big for nothing. In fact, I thing that all engine with more than 500-550 cc are just too big. You just cannot totally fill the cylinder with that restriction.

Personnally, I dream about the Yamaha phazer 500. My team is already using a CVT and this engine with a turbo will give approx the max Hp will be able to get from the restriction. Light, small, this engine offer a lot of possibility!

Unfortunately, our team don't have that much money for the moment and we're riding a Honda F4i...This summer we'll start a two years conception car and we'll probably consider the yamaha...I thing the two or single cylinder are the futur of FSAE. Think light...Think fast!

Have a great day!

Dominic Otis-Aubut
Sherbrooke University

VFR750R

04-29-2007, 11:26 AM

I think you'll find that everyone on this forum has a different opinion on the best engine for fsae.

Don't forget when assuming that 600cc is too big that a 600 will have more area under the curve then a 500, and will build boost sooner then a 500, resulting in more power under more conditions, not just peak.

Thinking a lighter engine is better is a lot different then proving it out with calculations derived from experimental results. No one will argue that lighter is better if you don't give up something else, but what is the performance sensitivity?

BrendonD

04-29-2007, 11:27 AM

We used the 448cc single out of a 2007 Suzuki LTR450 Quadracer. It is a sick little package.

We were lucky enough to get a complete quad donated through Suzuki North America(read: no missing pieces), and it's been a dream to work with, I can not think of a more perfect motor to use as a first year team. Fuel injected, electric start, 12.0:1 compression, 12 volt ignition system, and a dry weight of 70lbs.

I have yet to hear of anyone else using this engine, we'll be using it again next year.

Malkovich

04-29-2007, 01:18 PM

As I said, my team is using a CVT so we don't really matter if the boost come sonner...the peak power is interesting...

The tranmission of F4i is also a problem..With the Yamaha Phazer, you can plug the CVT directly on the crank!

But I agree on the fact that a sequential transmission should work with a 500 and more cc engine

John Stimpson

05-01-2007, 08:19 PM

What about the Mahle 3 cylinder?

Mikko Ahola

05-01-2007, 09:37 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JagLite:
Yamaha Phazer snowmobile engine and CV drive. Yes, it is not the maximum displacement allowed, however even stock it has many other positive features. A much more torque friendly tune, fuel injection, no gears for the multiple drivers to mess up with, very light and small, only two cylinders to make pipes for, etc. For your first car, or even for looking at future cars, it is a great basis.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Some pics and info of the new Phazer:

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/products/modelspecs/559/0/specs.aspx

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/products/modelimagelib/559/14/1/0/image.aspx

Looks quit enice but I personally like the R6 engine...

Mike Flitcraft

05-02-2007, 08:10 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mechanicaldan:
OK, I'll bite. I think that the best engine for an FSAE car is the Aprilia SXV 550 engine. Why?

Positives:
Roughly half the weight of an inline 4.
Only down rougly 25% on HP of an inline 4.
Dry sumped!!
Electric start
2 cylinders leads to lighter intake and exhaust system.
VERY compact and easy to package.
5 speeds - less weight
12:1 compression
available immediately

Negatives:
Cost - rougly $3000

Yes, that's 3 times as much as an E-bay inline 4.

The real question is, "how much would you be willing to pay to easily take off 50+ lbs of your car, and potentially not make it any slower?"

How important is weight to performance? A=F/M That's the real question the single cylinder engined cars are starting to ask.

For lots more info on this engine:
http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/412600868/m/19210732631 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Flip side of the coin, we've had some issues this year, we found a bearing failure when we were changing the oil. I was shocked when I found out the F4i doesn't have a thrust washer/bearing anywhere, myself.

We've been saying dry sump for a little while, but haven't had the time/money to do it. However, being able to just get one engine from the get-go and run the same engine the whole time without failure could equate to the same amount of money invested, but having a lighter package overall. Gonna run into that issue if/when we ever change platforms.

Main downside I see is having to pull the engine all the time to dyno it, or the cost of a second engine for dyno only purposes.

I've still got 4 or 5 years on campus, we'll see what the future holds.

HorsepowerGOD

05-06-2007, 12:40 PM

a turbo'd 500cc Kawasaki inline twin. light way cheaper than the aprillia..
make your own turbo plumbing, and fuel injection..

Conor

02-09-2008, 06:14 PM

Have any teams used the yamaha phazer engine? I think it's technically called the genesis 80fi. Our team has been doing quite a bit of research and debating heavily over a single cylinder(yamaha or ktm), the aprilia 550(more of a wet dream than anything), and a few others. This engine appears to be quite the contender and I'm shocked that a search only revealed one thread. I would love to hear from anybody who has used this engine or heavily researched it.

overdrive535

02-09-2008, 08:29 PM

Off the top of my head, the biggest problem with the genesis 80 fi is availability. The Phaser is the only snowmobile with this power plant in the Yamaha line-up. It's still a fairly new model. So there really isn't a lot of them out there to begin with when compared to the number of race and moto bikes on the market. Then, spending all the time to find a sled bone yard with one in it would be a pain, even here in the north where they're everywhere.

Last spring I looked into them quite heavily, for a number of reasons, using a CVT being one of them. As a snowmobile app, they're going to be lightened as much as possible to keep up with the featherweight two strokes. Also, they will probably rev quite quickly.

If a team really wants to run a Yamaha snowmobile 4-stroke, an avenue that could be pursued is to contact Yamaha USA or their race team(s) directly about purchasing a spare race motor, because WPSA rules limit snocross displacements to 600 cc. In my opinion, one of these motors would be the ultimate FSAE engine. Unless your team has members that think it's not racing unless you are shifting, like mine does.

Michael Hart

02-09-2008, 09:01 PM

We've run 99-02 Yamaha R6 motors for the past 6 years or so) and we now have a pretty nice turbocharged, dry-sumped, ethanol-fueled package. My only complaints would be the weight and the difficulty in finding good 8 year old motors.

For what its worth, if we were to switch soon, I think I would go with a KTM single (sx-f 525 or something like that). From what I've read, it's well balanced powerful (in factory form at least), simple, and lightweight (compared to the R6). They're expensive though, and we have a lot of knowledge and experience with the R6, so this is probably just idle speculation for now.

Kyle Roggenkamp

02-10-2008, 03:03 PM

While just about every car seems to be powered by an inline 4, I really think the ideal engine config is either a twin or a single. They can put down just about the same torque at lower RPM's, and pull respectable number numbers up high. We switched to a single this year, and are loosing 70 pounds in engine mass, plus the chassis is half the size behind the driver now.

Granted they don't have the sex appeal of the inline 4's, but I think they've got a much more usable power band.

Kyle Roggenkamp

02-10-2008, 07:11 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by overdrive535:
Off the top of my head, the biggest problem with the genesis 80 fi is availability. The Phaser is the only snowmobile with this power plant in the Yamaha line-up. It's still a fairly new model. So there really isn't a lot of them out there to begin with when compared to the number of race and moto bikes on the market. Then, spending all the time to find a sled bone yard with one in it would be a pain, even here in the north where they're everywhere.

Last spring I looked into them quite heavily, for a number of reasons, using a CVT being one of them. As a snowmobile app, they're going to be lightened as much as possible to keep up with the featherweight two strokes. Also, they will probably rev quite quickly.

If a team really wants to run a Yamaha snowmobile 4-stroke, an avenue that could be pursued is to contact Yamaha USA or their race team(s) directly about purchasing a spare race motor, because WPSA rules limit snocross displacements to 600 cc. In my opinion, one of these motors would be the ultimate FSAE engine. Unless your team has members that think it's not racing unless you are shifting, like mine does. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, Yamaha is allowed to run 1050 cc engines- the rest of the competitors have to run 600 cc engines. The 500cc phasers can run in the 440 class though.

Kirby

02-10-2008, 07:12 PM

I've always wanted to play with one of these:
http://www.maxsym.com/gp500-600/images/GP600_white.JPG

www.maxsym.com (http://www.maxsym.com)

Advantages:
Super Light <40kg fully loaded.
Reversible Head, exhausts back or forward.
Factory sry sump
Cassette-Type Transmission
90BHP @ 13,750 (unrestricted)

Disadvatages:
~$12k USD
Website hasn't been updated since '05 indicating company is defunct.

Adambomb

02-10-2008, 07:36 PM

After using a Kawi 4 for countless years we're switching to a Yamaha single for its torque band, vast aftermarket support, simple packaging and parts (compare a 4 cyl header to a 1 cyl header) and of course, its 70 lb weight advantage. I don't think a weight advantage like that can be understated.

Plus 5 valve heads make me giddy http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JHarshbarger

02-11-2008, 06:37 AM

This year we're going with the Suzuki LTR-450. We've ran the Cannondale 440 for two years, but have not been happy with costs, availability, and reliability. The LTR is fuel-injected, electric start, and a good candidate for potential power. From what I've heard, it is a good contender in the 450 quad racing and can produce a substantial amount of additional power with a few upgrades. Although it is not as available as the Yamaha, we feel that it has good potential.

From what I've heard, there was a team last year that ran the LTR with the stock ECU and the restrictor and it ran just fine for competition. Might be tempting for younger teams.

Grant Mahler

02-11-2008, 07:22 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JHarshbarger:

From what I've heard, there was a team last year that ran the LTR with the stock ECU and the restrictor and it ran just fine for competition. Might be tempting for younger teams. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not trying to cross swords, but I doubt that. So far as I know, (until you) we are the only team running this motor.

The stock ECU wont allow you to run a restrictor. It goes into limp home mode immediately, if you can get it started with the restrictor.

JHarshbarger

02-11-2008, 12:46 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Grant Mahler:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JHarshbarger:

From what I've heard, there was a team last year that ran the LTR with the stock ECU and the restrictor and it ran just fine for competition. Might be tempting for younger teams. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not trying to cross swords, but I doubt that. So far as I know, (until you) we are the only team running this motor.

The stock ECU wont allow you to run a restrictor. It goes into limp home mode immediately, if you can get it started with the restrictor. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My mistake. Must have had some information get jumbled up.

For the sake of the thread, how do you feel about the LTR now that you are going on your second year with the engine?

Grant Mahler

02-11-2008, 10:40 PM

While it may only be just after midnight, I've been machining for almost 8 hours so bear with me if something doesn't make sense. Also, for clarification - though we have been working on this car for 2 years, we did not participate last year and thus are considered a "rookie" team this year.

Suzuki LTR-450
<UL TYPE=SQUARE> Benefits:
<LI> 450cc
<LI> ~42WHP (stock)
<LI> ~32WTQ (stock)
<LI> 84lbs w/oil and sump, no fuel, no radiator/hoses/water.
<LI> external oil reservoir dry sump
<LI> single Coil/amp already stock (makes MegaSquirt super easy, though we haven't tried running ours yet so I should hold my tongue)
<LI> EFI (Crank trigger only)
<LI> Excellent port design (IMO) and ports are already cleaned up, etc. Motor is easy to get to 60+whp stock. Big bore, stroker, and cam kits already available should you choose to go that way.
<LI> Suzuki has been extremely helpful so far - not the absolute best I've heard of, but pretty helpful. Also...we got major sponsorship through them. Again, not the absolute best, but very very good.
[/list]

<UL TYPE=SQUARE> Drawbacks:
<LI> ECU determines phase via differentiation, which means you don't have a way to run sequential less you add a second trigger or do something special.
<LI> Crank trigger is 17 short 1 long, which is not a normal trigger wheel. Also, you CANNOT use a PE style trigger on the crank shaft - it simply has no place to be (less you wish to machine your own case I guess)
<LI> The engine mounting points are not able to be accessed easily. The biggest drawback to this is that getting engines in and out is a royal PITA. It's truly painful - ask a Suzuki tech, they will tell you the same thing. The GSXR600 can drop right in, from top down. I haven't looked closely enough at an F4i to know, but i hope it is easier to get in and out than this beast.
<LI> Not as easy as GSXR600/YZF600/F4i to mount fuel rail (no fuel rail b/c its a single but...). i.e. there are no convenient bolt holes near the intake port - they are all a ways off.
No CAD/CMM already available. We took some basic dimensions and then built the frame without worrying too much (being a first car).
<LI>New motor - thus expensive, parts are expensive, no one knows it, etc.
[/list]

overdrive535

02-12-2008, 07:32 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kyle Roggenkamp:
Actually, Yamaha is allowed to run 1050 cc engines </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What's your source for that? I'm not trying to be rude, but there is no provision (that I can find; and I have looked) in the WPSA sno-cross displacement rules for Pro and Semi-Pro 4-strokes. There is only one displacement limit, 600cc. However, the stock class this year went from a 440cc to 600cc max displacment, to accomidate the phaser.

Off topic, but how's SCSU these days?

Kyle Roggenkamp

02-12-2008, 08:32 AM

The racers that are on the tracks with 'em. The rule book clearly states that only 600cc is allowed max, no exceptions, yet the open sleds are 1050 inline 3's putting down really impressive numbers. I think that is going to be changing very soon though. The phasers do run against the 600's in stock classes, and if I'm not mistaken they can run in the 440 class as well.

Life at SCSU is pretty good, nothing too exciting. Just scrambling to get our car put together! I see your at SDSU, did you attend SCSU?

overdrive535

02-12-2008, 11:59 AM

Interesting...so they're using the Genesis 120's...

And I didn't attend SCSU, I'm from Clear Lake...I went out of state because I wasn't going to SCSU with everyone else from my graduating class...

rjwoods77

02-12-2008, 01:02 PM

You two should consumate your snowmobile love affair and put a cvt on your formula car. A phazer twin with the cvt tuned right in a FSAE would be all the rage. CVT's are the money shot.

Kyle Roggenkamp

02-12-2008, 05:49 PM

Yep, I think they are heavily modified Genesis 120's. Great engines IMO.

Yeah Rob, that would be the ticket I think. The only thing that doesn't work well is having a driveshaft and a jackshaft, but a planetary gear set on the driveshaft would take care of that.

Although the money shot would be running a Polaris HO TWO STROKE 600. 130 HP and about 50 lbs. That or the Direct injection doo motors.

And overdrive I can understand avoiding SCSU for that reason, and several others http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

overdrive535

02-13-2008, 07:08 PM

one of the slickest things I've seen (and I cannot remember who did it) is to run the half shaft on the belt side between the pulleys...

Real long term for us, if I have my way, is a custom cast aluminum block that uses R6 heads, crank, pistons, and rods but removes the transmission casing. It would give a lot more freedom in drive train selection and would even make a 600cc 4-cylinder CVT feasible.

rjwoods77

02-13-2008, 07:36 PM

http://www.ritzsite.demon.nl/DAF/DAF_cars_p17.htm

Like this?

Sherbrook simply turned the engine around and that solved the problem of the trans case being in the way. If you were really slick they could find a use for the area inside the trans case for something like a dry sump pump, alternator, battery holder, ecu/electronics storage etc. You wouldn't have to make a custom anything. Shit, you could even use the swingarm pivot bolt mount to mount the engine to the firewall. Be creative.

JagLite

09-12-2008, 02:01 PM

So glad that someone is FINALLY going to use the Phazer engine. WPI plans to use it in the '09 car and I am looking forward to this team making a great showing this year.

James

Grant Mahler

09-12-2008, 03:46 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kirby:
I've always wanted to play with one of these:
http://www.maxsym.com/gp500-600/images/GP600_white.JPG

www.maxsym.com (http://www.maxsym.com)

Advantages:
Super Light <40kg fully loaded.
Reversible Head, exhausts back or forward.
Factory sry sump
Cassette-Type Transmission
90BHP @ 13,750 (unrestricted)

Disadvatages:
~$12k USD
Website hasn't been updated since '05 indicating company is defunct. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I tried contacting them via email, phone, friends in the area, etc. All evidence points to the company going under.

Mikey Antonakakis

09-23-2008, 10:46 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Grant Mahler:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kirby:
I've always wanted to play with one of these:
http://www.maxsym.com/gp500-600/images/GP600_white.JPG

www.maxsym.com (http://www.maxsym.com)

Advantages:
Super Light <40kg fully loaded.
Reversible Head, exhausts back or forward.
Factory sry sump
Cassette-Type Transmission
90BHP @ 13,750 (unrestricted)

Disadvatages:
~$12k USD
Website hasn't been updated since '05 indicating company is defunct. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I tried contacting them via email, phone, friends in the area, etc. All evidence points to the company going under. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So does that mean they'll need to clear out their engines? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Diablo_niterider

10-08-2008, 01:33 AM

hey guys,

i am in love with the maxsym gp500 , anyone had any luck getting through to them , i tried but couldnt get through their number .

am currently trying to find out if any other class racing team has used them and get it through them. please let me know if you know any specific racing class(category) or team you know are using it or that could help my search .

i think the maxsym and the genesis 80 fi have great potentials .

awaiting your reply ,

Chris_S

10-08-2008, 02:58 AM

http://www.stevepdesign.demon.co.uk/maxsym.htm
Its a shame, as it looks to be a good package.

Quite a few teams have had problems with the Aprilia engine, along with many motocross/supermoto riders having problems with reliability.
We approached an Aprilia dealer in the UK, as we were looked at our options with engines. Getting hold of one quickly was a big issue, not to mention the price, we could get two R6's for the price of one Aprilia.

Wesley

10-08-2008, 10:39 AM

But they're so cute and cuddly!

We have two. Still trying to get #1 to start.

Steve O

10-08-2008, 07:54 PM

We use the YFZ450, going with the 523 bore/stroke this year. We like it because it is light weight and our the package is nice and small to make it fit. It packs quite the punch, and as mentioned before by someone else, we aren't making the HP that the 4's are putting out but most of the claimed HP they are getting is just because they rev so much higher than us. We are, however,putting out comparable torque.

Major downsides:

-Harder to come by and more pricey than the f4i.
-A BEAR to tune, especially in the lower RPMS... having a big fuel injector to give you the top end power means loss of low end resolution for tuning.
-Along the same lines as the point above, little problems or changes can cause REALLY big problems with engine reliability.
-Not always consistent... sometimes the motor runs great and other days it starts hard and just isn't happy. Again this is mainly because of the above notes and due to difficulties with getting the correction maps PERFECT. If you do not tune the engine and the corrections perfectly you could run in to big problems. Make sure your ECU has a zero throttle map if you plan to tune by MAP!

Overall: Great motor if you can tune out all the quirks, but be prepared for quirks. We may look into some 2 cylinders for the years to come... A great middle ground I think, should be easier to tune and still have a much smaller package than the 4. We will be staying away from the Aprilia with all the problems we have heard coming from that engine and the initial cost.

Steve