Stuck the cam to the head of our PHAZER!!

[Kyle Roggenkamp]

Yep, so we got our Phazer running on Microsquirt. We were working on getting it to idle well, when we apparently lost oil pressure some how. We're not exactly sure what happened yet, but we think that the oil passage inside the intake cam got plugged.

I wasn't there when this happened, but the engine was idling moderately well at 3,000 RPM, when it stuck. It had been idling for about 10 seconds.

Attached are a bunch of pictures.

http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/sortastock/th_EXHAUSTCAM.jpg (http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/sortastock/?action=view&current=EXHAUSTCAM.jpg)
http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/sortastock/th_HEAD_1.jpg (http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/sortastock/?action=view&current=HEAD_1.jpg)
http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/sortastock/th_INTAKECAMCAP.jpg (http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/sortastock/?action=view&current=INTAKECAMCAP.jpg)
http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/sortastock/th_INTAKECAM_1.jpg (http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/sortastock/?action=view&current=INTAKECAM_1.jpg)
http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/sortastock/th_INTAKECAM_2.jpg (http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/sortastock/?action=view&current=INTAKECAM_2.jpg)
http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/sortastock/th_INTAKECAM_3.jpg (http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/sortastock/?action=view&current=INTAKECAM_3.jpg)
http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/sortastock/th_INTAKEVALVE_1.jpg (http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/sortastock/?action=view&current=INTAKEVALVE_1.jpg)
http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/sortastock/th_INTAKEVALVE_2.jpg (http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/sortastock/?action=view&current=INTAKEVALVE_2.jpg)
http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/sortastock/th_INTAKEVALVE_3.jpg (http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/sortastock/?action=view&current=INTAKEVALVE_3.jpg)

I'm assuming we aren't the first team that something like this has happened to... The damage doesn't look too bad, do you guys think this is something we can clean up and run? Or should we look at a new head?

[Kyle Roggenkamp]

Yep, so we got our Phazer running on Microsquirt. We were working on getting it to idle well, when we apparently lost oil pressure some how. We're not exactly sure what happened yet, but we think that the oil passage inside the intake cam got plugged.

I wasn't there when this happened, but the engine was idling moderately well at 3,000 RPM, when it stuck. It had been idling for about 10 seconds.

Attached are a bunch of pictures.

http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/sortastock/th_EXHAUSTCAM.jpg (http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/sortastock/?action=view&current=EXHAUSTCAM.jpg)
http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/sortastock/th_HEAD_1.jpg (http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/sortastock/?action=view&current=HEAD_1.jpg)
http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/sortastock/th_INTAKECAMCAP.jpg (http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/sortastock/?action=view&current=INTAKECAMCAP.jpg)
http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/sortastock/th_INTAKECAM_1.jpg (http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/sortastock/?action=view&current=INTAKECAM_1.jpg)
http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/sortastock/th_INTAKECAM_2.jpg (http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/sortastock/?action=view&current=INTAKECAM_2.jpg)
http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/sortastock/th_INTAKECAM_3.jpg (http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/sortastock/?action=view&current=INTAKECAM_3.jpg)
http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/sortastock/th_INTAKEVALVE_1.jpg (http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/sortastock/?action=view&current=INTAKEVALVE_1.jpg)
http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/sortastock/th_INTAKEVALVE_2.jpg (http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/sortastock/?action=view&current=INTAKEVALVE_2.jpg)
http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/sortastock/th_INTAKEVALVE_3.jpg (http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/sortastock/?action=view&current=INTAKEVALVE_3.jpg)

I'm assuming we aren't the first team that something like this has happened to... The damage doesn't look too bad, do you guys think this is something we can clean up and run? Or should we look at a new head?

[Ian_N]

Eehh.... you might get away with taking the head off and getting the cam reground but to be honest, the bearing surfaces on both the cam. head and retainers have all been badly scored and you may well have swarf floating about in the oil system.

We had the same happen last year on one of the R6 engines after our Class 1 team didn't check if the dyno engine had a pressure regulator in.... cue one R6 engine shagging it's cams and head http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

You'd probably get away with replacing the head casting, retainers and cams, but i'd be warey about the rest of the engine without a good flush of all it's oilways to be sure the swarf is gone and unlikely to damage any more components, or you could be looking at the engine going bang fairly promptly

[Tim Gornik]

Any other evidence of the point of failure? For this much damage to occur after only 10s of idle something was wrong. There would have had to be no oil @ all in the head. When you opened it did it seem as if there was? Have you traced all your oiling lines and passages through the engine to look for blockage of some sort? I am not to familiar with this particular engine, but you definitely had some sort of oiling issue. Have you checked the crank and crank bearings as well? Any evidence of excessive heat?

[Kyle Roggenkamp]

We haven't taken a look at the bottom end of the engine yet. One thing that was odd to us is that the exhaust cam was oiled pretty well, no real signs of wear. This tells me that there was probably pressure up in the head. The first carrier on the intake cam is also in good shape.

What's the best way to flush an engine's oil system?

[exFSAE]

Don't know.. turn the engine over on a power supply to the starter, with the fuel and ignition cut? Or turn it over with an impact wrench.. do whatever it is to cycle the mechanical oil pump?

THOUGH... if you have chunks of metal somewhere in your oil line and they get to that pump, the tolerances are pretty tight. We had something similar happen on an F4i and it immediately snapped the "drive shaft" which ran the oil pump.

External pump? Don't know. Not much of an engine guy.

You're going to have a high RPM engine being strung out at WOT, RIGHT next to your driver, with the pistons and head aimed at him. Can you prove that this damage is negligible? I'd get a new top end at a minimum, if not just go to your backup motor entirely.

[Kyle Roggenkamp]

Yeah... I agree...

but about that back up engine. Attached is a picture of our back up engine...



kyle

[Tim Gornik]

I would not ever turn it over under power. That is a good way to ensure the need for that back up engine. Figure out the oiling system. You may then find that there was blockage somewhere btwn intake and exhaust. I would dis-assemble everything, carefully inspecting parts like the gerotor. Go through the entire oiling system, possibly blowing out with an airhose. Most importantly figure out the failure of this motor before running again, you may be doing something wrong.

[Tim Gornik]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by exFSAE:
Don't know. Not much of an engine guy.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[exFSAE]

Yup. I'm not, by trade anyway.

But I've dealt with my fair share of sketchy engine FSAE crap.. and I know this sounds like a recipe for "bad shit to come."

[Drew Price]

Kyle,

No real structure here, just as they come to me:

I can't tell if the bearing suraces have galled up against the cam and metal has got into the rest of the head or not from your photos, make sure you check really carefully for any little bits that might have gotten in there, or are hanging out down around the lifters and such. Check the pan and filter as well.

How much did you clean the inside of the head before you snapped the photos? It might look a little dry, but I can see oil hanging out in the little crevices, and around bolts, so you might be ok.

I can't tell from the photo of the upper cam bearing cap (and no firsthand knowledge if the Phazer engines....) but look very carefully at the oiling scheme for that upper cap.

My Saab 900's use the bolts for the upper bearing shells like that for lubrication - the oil passage goes up through one set of the bolts, and into the upper caps through a channel machined in the side of the bolt, which makes up the passage. If that's the case, it is absolutely essential that you get the drilled / machined / hollow bolts in the correct bolt holes. If they are set up like this, if you look down into the threaded holes one will be blind, the other will have a passage drilled or cast into it.

The other thing that happened on my 900 once was that there was a little bit of a burr on the edge of the cam bearing journal where the cap mating surface is that made the cam bind. I actually sheared two cam sprockets until I discovered it, make very sure there is nothing keeping the cam from rotating freely. Take the lifters and valves out and the cams should spin free when they are bolted in.

It looks to me like your head is probably not useable, but the cams are hardened and ground very smooth, so the aluminum usually doesn't chew up the cams, you should be able to buff the bearing surfaces with some Scotchbrite or something, very gently, to get them nice and smooth again.

Then put the cams between a pair of centers on a lathe if you can and check the bearing surfaces for roundness with an indicator.

Pull all the lifter buckets and check that they slide freely in their bores, they should be extremely smooth. I find a magnetic pickup tool works very well for pulling them out perfectly straight so you don't mess up the top of the bore.

If they are hydraulic lifers make sure they have some oil in them, make sure the oil passages feeding them are clean (they are very small).

Make sure the oil feed passages into the head through the head gasket are clear, that you're not using the wrong year gasket or anything like that that's blocking off a passage.

Check the cylinder bores for any scoring, and check the crank and rod bearings to make sure you don't have an oiling problem in the bottom end too, you may just have a bad oil pump, bad pickup tube or pickup tube o-ring, clogged or blocked pickup screen.

It had enough oil in it, right??? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Make sure the oil pressure regulator (if so equipped) is not blocked open or anything like that. The ones I've seen are just check valves, a spring and a plunger so the system doesn't over-pressurize at high revs. It's probably between the oil pump and the filter, but might be right after the filter.

Best,
Drew

[Erich Ohlde]

Do the cams still have the caps in both ends? I've seen this kind of failure before, we had it happen once when we had a reground set of cams installed in an f4i. The cams are oil filled and they distribute pressurized oil to the bearing journals. When we had the cams reground we didn't know about the caps that are installed on both ends of the cam to maintain oil pressure.

From the pics of you cams I would say your engine works on the same oil through the cams principle. take one of the cams and look down the long axis if you can see through to the other end that is your problem.

[exbaja]

You either have a mismatched head and cam cap (they are machined and sold as a matched set) or you over torqued the cam cap. If you are not guilty of either of these, then there is obviously an oiling issue somewhere.